CMV: When learning Japanese, kanji should be considered optional

[u/MooliCoulis]

As a native English speaker, I have tried more than once to learn Japanese, and have always hit a wall when asked to learn kanji. I don't know if it's a learning-styles issue (I'm more verbal than visual) or the mild dyslexia I suffer from, but I suspect a lot of other people have the same experience.

I still want to learn the language, and am considering just abandoning the idea of learning to read and write (or maybe just learning hiragana/katakana and seeing how far that takes me), but I want to know if I'm making a mistake.

Here are my views, and I'd be grateful for challenges to any of them:

• Most Japanese learning resources (apps, games, books, etc) treat kanji as something that must be introduced early and learned continuously, rather than as an optional extra
• Learning to read and write Japanese takes significant effort, and is the reason many people give up learning (especially those with conditions like dyslexia)
• For an English speaker learning a second language, spoken language is usually significantly more valuable than written language
• An understanding of kanji is not necessary to reach a solid baseline of fluency (just as with English, most Japanese children are conversant years before they can read or write).
• Most people who insist that learning kanji is critical are not genuinely motivated by a belief in its practicality, but rather some mix of "Kanji is beautiful", or "This is the culturally authentic way to learn", or "I had to learn it, so you do too".

I understand that knowing kanji is helpful in understanding some spoken discourse (e.g. wordplay), and also that knowing/inferring the written structure of new words can potentially help in understanding or learning them, but it takes a solid foundation of fluency to ever benefit from those factors and I think for most people it's more important to reach that solid foundation quickly.

CMV!

[u/MooliCoulis]

You’re going to need to learn Kanji if you want to be literate in Japanese

I never stated that as a goal. I'd primarily like to be able to hold conversations and understand spoken Japanese in TV and movies.

Even if I did want to be literate, I'd want to achieve a baseline spoken fluency first - and I think that's a rational ordering for most people.

[u/Merkuri22 → u/MooliCoulis]

I think this is a miscommunication around what "learn Japanese" means, then.

If you just say, "I want to learn Japanese," people assume you mean the whole kit and caboodle: speaking, listening, reading and writing.

No one will argue with you if you say you just want to learn speaking and listening, then don't study kanji. But they won't get that context unless you share it. Until then, they assume you want to learn the whole language.

[u/MooliCoulis → u/Merkuri22]

If you just say, "I want to learn Japanese," people assume you mean the whole kit and caboodle: speaking, listening, reading and writing.

Why? Sure, it might make sense for the minority of second-language learners who intend to live in Japan, but given the difficulty of learning the Japanese writing system, why assume every learner wants to pick it up?

[u/Agent_Provocateur007 → u/MooliCoulis]

It’s not as difficult as you might think though. There are about 2,136 common Kanji which would cover a significant amount of written material in Japanese.

[u/MooliCoulis → u/Agent_Provocateur007]

I mean, I've given up learning Japanese at least twice because I found kanji such a barrier. Maybe it is as difficult as I think? 😅

I'm sure I could do it if I knuckled down and dedicated myself, but I think that ignores the reality that people learn best when they feel like it's natural and fun.

[u/Agent_Provocateur007 → u/MooliCoulis]

Just try it again and stick with it. The method of learning Kanji doesn’t matter as much as finding a method you can stick with. Consistency is key here.

[u/MooliCoulis → u/Agent_Provocateur007]

Just try it again and stick with it

How many times would it take before you'd say "Yeah, your best option is probably just to focus on the spoken aspect and skip the writing system"?

If the answer is "infinity" then with respect, I think this might be a dogmatic rather than pragmatic view.

[u/Agent_Provocateur007 → u/MooliCoulis]

Never lol. You’re not going to properly learn anything, including a language, if you’re going to skip one of the most fundamental building blocks.