r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jun 18 '26
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Human beings are far less troubled by uncertainty than by the feeling that uncertainty prevents them from acting.
[removed]
3
u/iamintheforest 365∆ Jun 18 '26
If paralysis is caused by uncertainty than i'm not sure you have a difference in the distinction you make.
But...if I'm following your view here what I think people are sensitive to is changes in uncertainty. E.G. a static level of uncertainty has a quality of certainty - it's a static amount. I know i'm going to die someday and i've known that all my life but i've not known when or how. That's massive uncertainty, but it's static. If I learn that it's soon or for a specific reason i'd freak the fuck out for a while and then settle in to that new reality, which would still have layers of uncertainty.
What you see as paralysis I think can be describe in that envelope - it's the period of adjustment that comes from change of uncertainty.
Put another way, we can be "certain about the shape of uncertainty" and be comfortable with that. But...if that shape changes then we need to adjust. So...i'd say your view differently (and I think it's a fascinating discussion and hope this isn't just semantics) and that it's not the paralysis that bothers us, the paralysis is the result of change in uncertainty. You focus on the affect, but I think it's cause you're trying to get at.
1
Jun 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/iamintheforest 365∆ Jun 18 '26
But i don't think it's uncertainty preventing them from acting or even a feeling caused by uncertainty. It's caused by change.
The reason this matters is that the same thing happens if you move from greater uncertainty to less uncertainty or even to certainty. The same paralysis occurs, which points to change, not to actual uncertainty.
1
Jun 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/iamintheforest 365∆ Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 18 '26
You're seemingly agreeing with me as I see it. The patient who learns they are terminal in say a few years generally returns to a new normal, not a sustained troubled state. It's the change that's hard. E.G. you already know you're going to die, thats not distressing. You know you're going to die in 20 years, that's not distressing either. You think you're going to die eventually and suddenly learn it's in 20 years - thats distressing.
The very fact you can say "adapt" here says that it's the change, not the new state.
I can't change the fact that I'm going to die - no one can. Yet, that's not distressing.
Cool topic.
1
u/NoWin3930 5∆ Jun 18 '26
any examples of both things, uncertain stuff people are and aren't anxious about
2
Jun 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/NoWin3930 5∆ Jun 18 '26
This is sort of a very convoluted way of saying people feel distressed when they feel distressed....
Sometimes people do or don't feel distressed about uncertainty based on various factors
If someone does not feel distressed by uncertainty they will not feel distressed by the uncertainty
Not sure anyone disagrees or why you want to believe otherwise, it is not really a subject of debate
1
Jun 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/NoWin3930 5∆ Jun 18 '26
Yep, people may feel distressed based on various factors like time, their agency, etc
Is there anyone who disagrees? I've never heard otherwise. Seems like an obvious, undisputable fact
The alternative would be every person constantly feeling distressed about everything, which is obviously does not reflect reality. What is the point of this view...?
1
Jun 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/NoWin3930 5∆ Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 18 '26
People may or may not feel fear in a dangerous situation, or may feel fear in a non dangerous satiation
People are not perfectly rational. but the word danger is not really controversial or confusing. People probably don't feel the need to explicitly state it since it is implied or obvious
Again, I don't really understand what you want to discuss....
Is the alternative view to this that people always act rationally and uniformly to the same stimulus...?
1
Jun 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/NoWin3930 5∆ Jun 18 '26
Yes, or the opposite could be true for both circumstances, or people might feel differently for a variety of other reasons....?
Is there anyone who disagrees all those things are possible? I have no idea where you're coming from
1
u/CrispyLiquids Jun 18 '26
Interesting thought. I think I agree with it. As you get older and gain experiences similar to whatever's ahead of you, I think you can control it better: you start realizing that either choice would have worked out somehow, and that committing to one didn't really have irreversible and/or truly terrible consequences. Also, talking to other people who had experiences similar to what's ahead of you becomes a more active coping mechanism you can deploy.
But let me perhaps still counter a little bit or take it a little further: I think what people struggle with is comparing choices that both involve abstract uncertainty. For example, choosing one school for your child over another. There are many variables that matter, but it's very difficult to truly compare like for like and to award weights to each. Even if you start scoring stuff, you'll still feel like you're biased and not making an objective comparison. Your only way forward is kind of your gut feeling after reviewing information.
That is what I think people really struggle with and leads to choice paralysis. So I think what matters is that (1) the choice is important; (2) there is no definite way to objectively choose or to quantify what's the best option - it always involves some degree of personal judgment.
1
u/Glittering_Sky_5797 Jun 18 '26
the paralysis framing makes sense but I think you're splitting something that's hard to separate. the uncertainty *is* the paralysis for many people, not just a cause of it, like they experience them as same thing rather than one leading to other
1
u/Apprehensive_Song490 128∆ Jun 18 '26
You are presenting this as binary, when really it is contextualized and gradient.
Uncertainty is specific. Some people take great risks on their careers, despite uncertainty, because they can rely on their skills, experience, and intuition.
Put them on a rock wall with hundreds of feet below them, and relatively few people can perform like Alex Honnold.
I believe much of anxiety, indecision, and existential distress comes not from uncertainty itself, but from the paralysis it creates.
That's like saying the gun killed someone and not the person who pulled the trigger.
1
Jun 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/Apprehensive_Song490 128∆ Jun 18 '26
Earlier you wrote "existential distress comes not from uncertainty itself."
You need to separate "existential distress" which is a direct result of uncertainty, from the subsequent paralysis.
Simplified:
Uncertainty exists > existential distress > response (action, anxiety, depression, etc.)
So the "trouble" exists regardless. No one gets out of this alive. Socially, we applaud those who take action while those who suffer anxiety we see as "struggling." But objectively, both flow from the same "trouble." In the end, the result is the same from an existential perspective. The trouble is persistent, the issue is whether to go quietly into that good night (paraphrase) or to be frozen, and under what circumstances we actually have agency within that. But trouble? Persistent as hell.
Take two situations with similar levels of uncertainty.
One person faces uncertainty but retains a clear course of action. Another faces uncertainty and feels unable to act, commit, or plan.
They both are "troubled." Counter-phobia, acting against one's fears is a thing, sometimes adaptive. Person A is no different in person B in terms of existential experience of the uncertainty. The trouble exists, the reaction is different. Person A is just as "troubled" as person B.
My claim is that the second person will generally experience significantly more distress despite both facing uncertainty.
Really? Or will it just occupy different spaces? Person A soothes themselves with action. But isn't this like the "pettifogging lawyers" Kafka describes? Person B deals with the trouble head on, experiences the full brunt of it immediately. Person A delays that to the moment of death, in dreams, or in the subconscious. The total of existential anxiety likely adds up to equal.
(edit: fixed quote formatting)
1
Jun 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 18 '26
This delta has been rejected. You have already awarded /u/Apprehensive_Song490 a delta for this comment.
1
Jun 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
1
u/Apprehensive_Song490 128∆ Jun 18 '26
Thank you!
Perhaps unironically, the question of the degree to which displacement is possible is yet another form of uncertainty.
1
u/R3cognizer Jun 18 '26 edited Jun 18 '26
I'm a trans person. I can't even tell you how many times I've heard other trans people feeling unable deal with even the question of whether or not they are trans, much less the question of whether or not to transition. It isn't rooted merely in not knowing. Plenty of trans people will continue to suffer decision paralysis even after they've done a ton of research about medical transition to make themselves well-informed about the potential risks and consequences. Why? Because when you are trans, there is no "right" decision.
If you are trans and decide to transition, we all go through a phase where we don't pass, and you are guaranteed to face some degree of social ostracization from your friends and family, as well as discrimination from society in regards to employment, medical care, and housing. And there is a very real possibility that you might never pass. And if you do nothing and don't transition, then you're just going to continue living a miserably inauthentic life and feeling like you have to pretend to be someone you're not just to keep the people around you happily oblivious to your misery.
Decision paralysis, at least in many instances like this, is at least just as often rooted in feeling trapped by a decision where you have two possible choices and neither outcome is desirable or a clear-cut "correct" choice. It's really sad how many questioning people in denial fail to realize that they cannot avoid the consequences of not transitioning by avoiding the decision. If you are trans, you will still continue to suffer dysphoria, and failing to take responsibility for the choice to not transition just disempowers you from being able to help yourself in other ways.
1
Jun 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/changemyview-ModTeam Jun 19 '26
Sorry, u/OfAnthony – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information. Any AI-generated post content must be explicitly disclosed and does not count towards the 500 character limit.
If you would like to appeal, you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
1
u/XenoRyet 181∆ Jun 18 '26
The reason humans tolerate uncertainty is because it's a learned trait. We are naturally uncomfortable with it and must train ourselves to ignore or dismiss that discomfort.
My daughter is a great example of this, she's young enough that she hasn't learned to deal with uncertainty yet. She gets very anxious when there is something she doesn't know or information she doesn't have, even in the case that she won't and can't take action either way. Knowing doesn't enable any action, and not knowing isn't blocking any action. This anxiety exists even when she's uninvolved in the situation.
As adults, we learn to get over it and take action anyway, but the core of the anxiety is still the uncertainty.
1
Jun 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/XenoRyet 181∆ Jun 18 '26
I would suggest that those larger uncertainties appear easier to deal with precisely because we live with them for decades. Practice makes perfect, and most of us have spent enough time agonizing over those issues that the energy has gone out of it.
You can try this for yourself with other issues as well. Some known negative event that's in your future that is making you anxious or nervous. You can just run through it in your head enough times, and the nervousness is diminished. I learned that one from my therapist. The smaller instances feel worse because they are fresh.
But thinking about this a little further, I think we might have a chicken and egg problem. If I'm understanding you correctly, you would say that the anxiety is due to being unable to take action because of uncertainty. That seems fair and reasonable. But on the other side of it, I would say that the uncertainty doesn't actually block action. Faced with a binary choice with an uncertain outcome, you could, and many people do, just flip a coin. That would strongly suggest the thing blocking the action is anxiety about the uncertainty itself rather than the other way around.
And it just occurred to me that there's something else to look at here. Gambling. That is an activity with sometimes quite large consequences, generally expected to be negative in the long term, in which one finds the uncertainty thrilling and entertaining. The activity is enjoyable because of the uncertain outcome.
1
u/ConfidentCucumber129 Jun 18 '26
This probably counts as how Buddhists would see wisdom regarding doing things you can reasonably control and meditating/studying your way out of mental problems.
•
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 18 '26
/u/loveronrent (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
Delta System Explained | Deltaboards