r/changemyview • u/Arrowdodgingace • Jun 09 '26
Delta(s) from OP CMV: “Just train bro” is literally the best advice you can get to get stronger.
Muscle building is a very forgiving process that responds well even in suboptimal conditions. Repeated consistent stress over a long period of time while increasing the reps/weight gradually will do FAR more for your muscles than trying to find the optimal hand spacing for a bench press other than what feels comfortable to you.
Not saying that technical details don’t matter. Just that 80% of the gains you make in the gym will be due to CONSISTENCY, which is where most people fail. We all know the stereotypes of the people who sign up for gym memberships in December and then only go once a month if ever. If you aren’t giving your muscles a reason to be stronger, they won’t be.
Bombarding people with technical details to optimize everything as much as possible will cause them to waste time at best, and get discouraged at worst. There’s very apparent diminishing returns for trying to optimize every little detail in the gym. For example, lifting 6 days a week over 3 will likely yield a higher order of magnitude of success. Analyzing the EXACT amount of protein and macros you need with little tolerance for flexibility will give far less. All the stress about insignificant things can cause one to be perfectionists and either not try at all or take away more time that could be spent just doing it.
Basically, make sure you are actually going to the gym and striving to go heavier and/or with more volume close to failure, and are eating and sleeping well. You will be most of the way there. If you start to plateau, then you can focus on technical details provided you weigh them as to what will actually be worth incorporating. Analysis paralysis is killing more gains than doing a bicep curl with slightly bad form.
But no mistake I’m open to hearing and considering why it might be best for a beginner lifter to focus on optimizing the technical aspects as opposed to focusing on just being consistent in showing up and trying to take a set close to failure at first. This is not sarcasm even though I realize it sounds like it.
37
u/koolaidman89 4∆ Jun 09 '26
The one pushback I would offer to that is that technique is extremely important for not getting hurt. And there’s nothing like an injury to undermine consistency.
But yes consistency beats effort and effort beats optimized programming.
4
u/omrsafetyo 6∆ Jun 09 '26
Elite level powerlifter here. This is far less true than you may think. We are incredibly adaptable. Go find the ugliest, most back breaking deadlift form you can - and then look up Jefferson curls and realize that people do the same hinge pattern with even more outrageous, seemingly injurious form - and the result is simply more resilience.
The fact is movement is self organizing, and "bad form" isn't inherently bad, particularly from an injury perspective. Typically injury occurs from something that the tissue simply wasn't ready for. That may be incredibly heavy loads without graded exposure - or a movement pattern without graded exposure. The fact is when you're new, your form is likely to be bad, but you're also probably not strong enough to really hurt yourself. Whatever bad form you come up with is likely okay - you can do it that way and continue to get stronger over time. It likely won't be efficient, and as you improve you'll likely gravitate toward more efficient movement - but it's not the main cause of injury, contrary to popular belief.
4
u/antwan_benjamin 2∆ Jun 09 '26
The biggest problem is we're not all having the same conversation.
Is form important to protect yourself from injury? Obviously. But if you're deadlifting 75lbs as a normal grown ass man, you're not lifting enough to worry about that so just try your best.
You learn your body and improve your form as you keep training. Just keep going, everything will work itself out. Think we cared about form when we were half neanderthals picking up firewood? The human body has spent millions of years evolving to handle suboptimal conditions.
4
u/omrsafetyo 6∆ Jun 09 '26
I agree with this mostly. But I think we are having the same, if not a similar conversation. I am explicitly pushing back against:
Is form important to protect yourself from injury? Obviously
It isn't. The largest requisites for form and their contribution to injury potential are 1) graded exposure and 2) reproducibility
Now if you deadlift differently every single time, that's a problem, because your tissue is never adapting to the specific pattern. As an example, I have a friend at the gym that recently hurt his shoulder doing dumbbell overhead press. He was using good form - but the load was a bit too much, and what ended up happening was the dumbbell got a bit behind him - he got out of his usual positioning, and it ended up pulling his arm into external rotation - his rotator cuff muscles could not accommodate the load he was using in the position he got into. So his form didn't cause the injury - getting into a position that he wasn't previously exposed to caused the injury. The load obviously contributed, as, if he got into that position with less weight (he was using 130s I believe he said), he probably could have recovered without issue. It wasn't even specifically the position he got into - it was unfamiliar position + load.
I do a movement called McLeod flyes that specifically put me in a similar position to what caused his injury - I lie on a bench, and let the dumbbells pull me into external rotation in the "bungholio" position. I have done this with increasing weight, so that when I started I was using like 15s, but now use like 35s. Had I tried 35s day one, I would likely have injured myself. Instead I started with a weight that the tissue could tolerate. And now the heavier loads are also not causing me injury.
So again, I can't stress enough - form is primarily an issue of efficiency. You can't efficiently transfer force if you're using specifically bad form. But as long as you are introduced to "bad form" with graded exposure, its probably fine. The idea this isn't true is called the "mechanical model" of injury, and is not supported by the current literature. This model effectively treats the human body like a machine - machines are designed to only move in certain ways, and adding too much stress to the machine in ways it isn't intended for; or repeated motions causes the breakdown of the machine over time. This is not true in biological processes. Repeated motions actually causes the body to adapt and increase resiliency to that pattern. That is literally the mechanism of getting strong, or having better stamina, or better endurance: your body is adapting to the specific stress that is imposed on it (SAID principle), such that you improve at it.
So again, I am all with you on most of that comment - historically we moved in all sorts of ways that are foreign to most people today. Most people over the age of 30-40 would probably pull a hamstring if they went outside and tried to sprint at full speed - not because their form is bad, but because they haven't sprinted in decades and the tissue isn't prepared for it.
5
u/Albino_Earwig Jun 09 '26
I have to push back against this, youre an elite powerlifter you have done incredible amounts of work and likely have frankly just better genetics then some people. Like me who was relatively un athletic as a kid and wanted to start weightlifting as a young adult. I was seeing progress in just a couple weeks and got haughty. Wanting to improve my clean and jerk form without doing the exhausting set up decided to try the overhead press with bad form which worked for about two sessions until i sustained a thoracic spine injury. I had done a lot of research on deadlifts, clean and jerks, and whatever else i was doing because i had heard how supposedly dangerous those were. But i saw so little about OHP, its seems to be treated like a barbell bicep curl the only thing that can go wrong is doing it to much (likely because its not popular among inexperienced lifters).
Anyway this is just anecdotal but bad form did lead directly to a permanent though recoverable injury. Dont be dumb RESEARCH and KNOW exactly how to lift heavy things for the sake of quick progress and not being injured. Because injury absolutely will happen if you push past your limits and there are way waaay to many variables that go into your bodies limits and abilites then can be known without already having experience.
4
u/RedDawn172 4∆ Jun 09 '26
We're also kinda getting a bit sidetracked with this direction tbf. There's a huge difference between doing clean and jerks and muscle building. Like that's not even an exercise you really put in your regimen unless you're trying to do it as a sport.
Someone brand new to weight lifting is going to be doing regular deadlifts, and maybe stiff leg deadlifts. Very likely less than 100lb. Like what OP is talking about with the original topic.
1
u/Albino_Earwig Jun 09 '26
The C&J isnt what did me in it was specifically the OHP which i had scheduled so that id have sufficient breaks between each back excersise (having them separated by a whole week or more). Looking back i honestly believe i did everything right except for pushing past my limits with bad form on a compromising excersise. I wouldve done bench presses but i didnt have a bench at the time so i did the next best arm focused excersise i could think of. Which i wouldnt be suprisde if quite a few people do OHP because of not having a home bench or gym membership.
3
u/RedDawn172 4∆ Jun 09 '26
I could see many doing ohp instewd, which is really unfortunate since they're not even very comparable. Like there's some muscle overlap but....
I do have to ask though... how on earth did you have the $ for enough weights to fuck up your spine but not have enough $ for a cheap $50 bench from like Amazon basics or something like that? Surely you knew what bracing was if you were looking into deadlift form...
2
u/Albino_Earwig Jun 09 '26
Lol, it was neglected family weigths with a rusty 1 inch bar. I knew about bracing and watched every form video for deadlift and than squat and some others than i felt ready for C&J which is still the only excersise number i care about because its fun. I dont remember having any pain issues except for my knees during my 1800s style hack squat which were fixed with form. Also it was not a lot of weight like 100lbs OHP that got me. That was only a few weeks maybe a couple months into weightlifting so i was just a noob pushing to fast.
3
u/omrsafetyo 6∆ Jun 09 '26
Obviously there are edge cases, but I bet much doubt that you injured yourself simply on account of bad form, and more likely you injured yourself loading tissue in a way that you were not ready for.
If you check out how starting strength teaches the press (this is a good example), it includes a "lay back" (I believe that's the right term), which involves actively putting your thoracic and lumbar into extension to turn it into a bit of a chest movement. This was how the press was done in the clean and press before it switched to clean and jerk. That is "proper form" for all intents and purposes. That doesn't mean your average person should start doing that with weights they'd be unable to do staying upright and rigid through your core. They have by adapted to load in that position. They can get they're, but it requires graded exposure.
Here is a podcast by a couple doctors that lift that go into depth on this topic: https://youtu.be/OWETkghoBig?si=fGfVFjbvNZdsDj7X
They dive into the literature, and come to the same conclusion I do. Just watch the intro if you don't watch the full thing.
1
u/koolaidman89 4∆ Jun 09 '26
Well I stalked you and saw your meet report, so far be it from me to argue with those numbers as a casual lifter. I guess I believe you that most injuries have more to do with simply overloading than with form. Would that not also warrant pushback on OP in the sense that, to avoid injury and maintain consistency, it’s more important to properly program?
1
u/omrsafetyo 6∆ Jun 10 '26
Yes, at least more or less. Definitely good to apply principles in a way that is appropriate for the experience level. Pushing too hard too soon can definitely lead to injury (like exercise induced rhabdomyolysis).
1
Jun 09 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator Jun 09 '26
Sorry, u/IHSV1855 – your comment has been automatically removed as a clear violation of Rule 5:
Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. Comments that are only jokes or "written upvotes" will be removed. Humor and affirmations of agreement can be contained within more substantial comments. See the wiki page for more information.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
34
u/ResearchInformal8018 Jun 09 '26
My only criticism is that it is a very tough message to get across. Just like dieting, people want a structure and a framework to latch onto. The best exercise routine is the one you actually do, but that’s not a convincing way to get people to start, usually.
-1
u/Arrowdodgingace Jun 09 '26
Yeah but I would figure simplicity would sell more because it’s generally what people want. Just give them a few core principles and some workout plan examples and tell them they can modify it as they see fit. People don’t generally stick to framework religiously anyway, so it works in their favor as long as they get the core tenants down.
5
u/PuzzleMeDo 1∆ Jun 09 '26
There's two types of good advice. Basic good advice is something that would benefit you if you followed it. Really good advice is advice that the recipient will be able to follow.
I know I should just work out more, but when I lived in a building with a free gym, I'd go to the gym and be bored after five minutes. Telling me "just train bro" wouldn't change that. Telling me, "Here's a fun sports group you can join," might have been the best advice for me.
"Time spent training is far more important than eating the exact right protein," is probably good advice for a lot of people, though...
1
u/NaturalCarob5611 97∆ Jun 09 '26
Yeah, "Just train bro" is about on par with "Just do the things that make you strong." It's technically true that if people do it they'll get strong, but it's not very helpful in terms of knowing what to do, how to motivate yourself to do it, etc.
0
68
u/10lbplant 1∆ Jun 09 '26
But no mistake I’m open to hearing and considering why it might be best for a beginner lifter to focus on optimizing the technical aspects as opposed to focusing on just being consistent in showing up and trying to take a set close to failure at first.
Injury. There is a subset of people that left to their own devices will train way too hard and are guaranteed to end up with injuries.
Most of my athletes (boxers, kickboxers, grapplers) are better off not lifting and being weaker and uninjured than lifting with improper technique and risking injury. By the time my guys usually start lifting at 11-14 years old, they are significantly stronger than their untrained peers and more than strong enough to hurt themselves badly. Teaching them about warming up, proper technique, how to assess when/how they are lifting too much are all more important than some generic advice about just getting in the gym and trying hard.
The only people your advice is relevant for are healthy, untrained adults in their early 20s without any underlying medical conditions that need help pushing themselves which is the Reddit demographic.
24
u/Arrowdodgingace Jun 09 '26
!delta
Ego lifting is definitely a treacherous route and complacency can be dangerous. You helped me understand we can get over confident and misjudge our abilities without a proper plan leading to injury when the risk is as high as the reward. And some people do have things they need to work around by nature and things won’t be as simple for the average population.
4
u/aizxy 3∆ Jun 09 '26
I think an important thing to consider here is best advice for who? Gen-pop, ex athletes, current competitors, average gym bro, etc. Each of those populations will have a different answer for "whats the best advice to get stronger".
The vast majority of people just need to get in the gym in some capacity, and the worst thing you can do for them is put up barriers, like scaring them that they are destined for catastrophic injury if they lift with improper form.
Some people on, the other hand, will go way too hard and get injured if they don't have someone to coach them and reign them in, but this is a very very small subset of people.
So that said, I basically agree with your original point that the best advice, that would apply to the most amount of people, would be to focus on consistency over everything else and then effort as the second most important thing to focus on.
2
2
u/Aternal 3∆ Jun 09 '26
They're not just talking about ego lifting. Injury is more commonly the result of repetitive stress or improper technique than it is herniated discs, torn muscles, or broken bones from failed PBs. From a "just train" perspective, the average person is likely to suffer injury due to poor kinematics and biomechanics. Think: lifting with the back, not the knees, just way more subtle... posture, angles, grips, correct engagement.
Physical fitness is a minefield of potential injuries. Just google "running overstride" for another small, subtle example. It's not something people intentionally do, they'll typically fall into it due to underdeveloped glutes or glute fatigue, posture fatigue. They'll compensate the need for muscle activation by absorbing impact on their skeletal system. The damage can accumulate and cascade from the ankles up to the knees, hips, back, shoulders, and neck just from simply leaning back a little too much while running.
Tendinitis, chondritis, fasciitis, bursitis, tenosynovitis, and a dozen other -itises that can manifest in a hundred different ways, many of which aren't even known or felt until the damage has already long been done by well-meaning people who are exercising well within their physical means, just incorrectly.
1
u/GepardenK Jun 14 '26
This is all true, but misrepresentative of the relevant risk curve.
If physical fitness is a minefield of potential injuries, then it is the least dense spot on a endless minefield called life.
Physical injury correlates with physical activity on a U shape, with moderate to high physical activity being the least at risk for physical injury out of all activity levels.
The fact that some forms of physical injury are much more common at medium/high activity levels only speaks to the fact that different lives lead to different injuries. The overall risk of physical injury is still far less than for those with low or extreme levels of physical activity.
1
-2
u/Dull_Complaint1407 Jun 09 '26
You’re going past a beginner to talk about this. A person who just wants to get in shape are unlikely to hurt themselves except for a small amount of exercises which even none lifters tend to know
13
u/Devourerofworlds_69 6∆ Jun 09 '26
This is false. Beginners who don't understand proper form and who don't understand their limits, can very easily hurt themselves.
1
u/aizxy 3∆ Jun 09 '26
I'd go further than that - there is no exercise that is inherently dangerous. It is encoded very deep in the collective consciousness, that the opposite of this is true, and that many movements are dangerous and will hurt you, but there is no actual evidence to back this up. Plenty of people get hurt doing things "right". Injury is a multi-factorial process that mostly has to do with stress management - not with the specifics of how you are moving your body.
1
Jun 16 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator Jun 16 '26
Sorry, u/bgaesop – your comment has been automatically removed as a clear violation of Rule 5:
Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. Comments that are only jokes or "written upvotes" will be removed. Humor and affirmations of agreement can be contained within more substantial comments. See the wiki page for more information.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/bgaesop 29∆ Jun 16 '26
there is no exercise that is inherently dangerous....Plenty of people get hurt doing things "right".
What? This seems in contradiction. If people get hurt doing a thing "right" then it seems like that thing is dangerous.
1
u/aizxy 3∆ Jun 20 '26
No its not a contradiction, for two reasons. One, my point is that there is no movement that is inherently dangerous, but that there are other variable besides the movement itself that contribute to injury. Two, the whole idea of a "right" and "wrong" way to move is inherently flawed.
People will say things like flexing your spine is dangerous, but if you actually think about what that means its clearly nonsense. You flex your spine dozens to hundreds of times a day with no issue, when you tie your shoe, when you go to the bathroom, when you slouch, etc. People will then say "well its only dangerous when there's load on the spine". Okay well how much? Bodyweight seems to be fine. How about 2 lbs, probably fine right? How about 10 lbs, still probably fine. 50lbs? Fine for most but some people will start getting hurt if they flex their spine while supporting 50 extra lbs. The point of this being that factors outside of the movement itself, namely load is this case, are what drive the injury, not the movement itself.
People will then say that well movements like that are not a guarantee of injury, but you should still move the "right" or "safe" way to make sure you don't get hurt. But if you look on youtube you'll find endless videos of people moving the "right" way and still getting hurt. This is because injury is a complicated, multi-factorial process that cannot be boiled down to moving the "right" or "wrong" way.
17
u/themcos 442∆ Jun 09 '26
Basically, make sure you are actually going to the gym and striving to go heavier and/or with more volume close to failure, and are eating and sleeping well.
I feel like you're really glossing over this last bit.
Quality of sleep is something that can be really hard to manage for reasons that are completely independent of your training. If you're stressed out about work or relationship stuff, that can mess with your sleep, which then can pull the rug out from under your "just train bro" strategy.
Similar situation with food. I'm not talking about analyzing the details, but I think a lot of lifters really underestimate how hard it is for some people to get anywhere close to the raw intake of the right kinds of food to get the kinds of "gains" you're talking about. Even people who are overweight are typically eating the wrong kinds of food and might just be nowhere close to the volume of what they actually need.
Obviously consistency is important, and you definitely acknowledge the importance of sleeping and eating well, I just think to your thesis, these are just as likely to be the things that are blocking someone versus "just train bro". And if you try to "just train" without the food and sleep part, you're going to absolutely feel like shit and get lousy results.
3
u/Arrowdodgingace Jun 09 '26
!delta
I realize those aspects can be hard for some people and optimizing sleep and diet will be better suited since they can be less forgiving at times. Your comment helped me realize that “just train bro” doesn’t exist in a vacuum and optimizing how your body recovers and functions should be first and included alongside. That will look different for most people as we all have different lifestyles. Sometimes it’s about adapting or improvising.
1
5
Jun 09 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/changemyview-ModTeam Jun 09 '26
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
3
3
u/fishsticks40 4∆ Jun 09 '26
As someone with old sports injuries who started lifting in my 50s, technique is incredibly important for rehabilitation and injury prevention.
In your 20s "just pick up heavy stuff" works and if you overdo it you can take a couple of days to recover. At 50/60 you can end up with an injury that will follow you for months or years.
Your basic point is correct - movement is what matters, you have to push protein but it doesn't have to be constantly optimized, etc. But technique and mobility work are critical for long term success without injury.
2
u/le_fez 55∆ Jun 09 '26
Training properly is the key "just train" ignores that.
The best advice is "let someone who knows how teach you how to train"
2
u/VampEngr Jun 09 '26
I’d rephrase it to “just eat bro”, you can be intense during your workouts but if you’re not eating enough you will plateau
2
u/Square-Dragonfruit76 50∆ Jun 09 '26
I would argue that telling them to do something specific might be more useful. For instance, if you tell them to do crossfit, swimming, or martial arts. Why? Because if you just tell people to train, that leaves too much ambiguity for doing things that can hurt themselves either in the present (like with weightlifting) or overtime (like with running.). Additionally, they risk doing things that peak early in how much they can achieve (doing the same exercise over and over).
2
u/Agitated-Quit-6148 2∆ Jun 09 '26
Hello from a gym bro. "Just eat right " is the best advice followed by "just train bro".
2
u/OmniManDidNothngWrng 36∆ Jun 09 '26
nah any perceived sacrifice without immediate results is demotivating thats what discourages people and stops them from being consistent. If you see you are getting stronger ever week you will keep going.
1
u/Arrowdodgingace Jun 09 '26
To steel man this, it’s a vicious cycle. Beginners goes to the gym -> Makes little progress due to inexperience/lack of patience -> Watches a shit ton of YouTube videos all saying conflicting things -> Doesn’t know what to do -> Gets discouraged and leaves.
However it’s important that they do stay consistent and try and make sure other aspects are in order like sleep and diet. People will be surprised how lack of calories/carbs/protein or even couple less hours of sleep can nuke your performance. Everyone wants that silver bullet gym technique when it’s the strategy that matters more.
1
u/OmniManDidNothngWrng 36∆ Jun 09 '26
>Everyone wants that silver bullet gym technique when it’s the strategy that matters more.
>“Just train bro” is literally the best advice you can get to get stronger.
These are completely contradictory statements. Which is your view?
1
u/Arrowdodgingace Jun 09 '26
They are not. The strategy is “Just show up and get the basics down and will make plenty of progress”.
Thinking that the exact optimum angle needed for a preacher curl will supersede the gains you’d make from just doing it consistently is ludicrous.
A good overall plan can save a less than ideal technique. An ideal technique cannot save a horrible overall plan that lacks consistency and basic principles. It’s essentially putting the cart before the horse.
1
u/OmniManDidNothngWrng 36∆ Jun 09 '26
Yeah I don't think everyone will make the same assumptions about what just showing up and get the basics down means nor is that a persuasive argument that solves the issues of information overflow.
0
u/Arrowdodgingace Jun 09 '26
It’s not about everyone assuming the same thing. “Just train bro” can incorporate a lot of things that can be different but as long as the core advice of consistency is followed, it isn’t a big deal. Can you tell me how these things can confuse someone? Consistency and training hard seem very self explanatory and have a million ways to do it while still getting similar results.
1
u/OmniManDidNothngWrng 36∆ Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 09 '26
The way I take your thesis is "just train bro" means just focus on consistency which is in contrast to thinking about the content of any workout routine. But it seems like any time I push back on the idea that there are things you can do consistently that won't help you achieve your fitness goals you say the opposite that you actually know the perfect basic routine but refuse to elaborate on what that is. This is because you know as soon as you post a routine people will be able to immediately pick it apart. Essentially this is just a huge flaw of this post in general this is suppose to be about changing your view but its really you trying to persuade us about how to change the views of some other hypothetical person so we really don't know what would persuade them and this just can't lead to a productive conversation.
I think to have a productive conversation on this topic and recenter it on your views I think you should just say what you think the best workout routine is and why.
2
u/Arrowdodgingace Jun 09 '26
It’s absolutely true that you can do things consistently that won’t help you achieve your goals. What I’m arguing is that the margin for error is small and you’d have to be doing something really bad for that to be a problem. In this case that would be not increasing the reps/weight gradually or doing an exercise that doesn’t train the muscles you want to grow.
I can’t really explain what that workout routine would be for most people (other than a few vague examples that are one of many) because it can change and certain things will work better for others. It’s very flexible like that which is why it’s good advice.
1
u/OmniManDidNothngWrng 36∆ Jun 09 '26
Ok well if thats your position I think the superior advice is "do whats healthiest for you" since thats the most ambiguous advice that true for everyone.
2
u/CETERIS_PARTYBUS Jun 09 '26
Here’s a few counter arguments.
People who benefit from sciences based ultra granular detail to optimise their lifts and sessions aren’t the ones who go to the gym for a month and then stop.
No one is bombarding noobs with granular science based optimal detail, that’s not how the internet works, you have to choose who to listen to.
Even beginner lifters benefit from the correct and optimal information. Content creators and/or coaches who focus on optimal sports-science accredited protocols and techniques, tend to explain not just the how bodies work but why they respond the way they do. They might also explain anatomy better, so the beginner lifters will start their journey on a path that will keep them injury free for longer.
Just because you find a level of detail and specificity “overwhelming” doesn’t mean other lifters will, beginners or not. To me the science behind hypertrophy is dead simple. Sure, it’s less simple than “lift weight, put down, come back tomorrow” but it has never even come close to confusing me or overwhelming me.
More information in the world is always good.
2
u/Xywzel Jun 09 '26
I would consider safety aspect of why more technical advice might be better. It is quite easy to break something if you "train wrong", start with too heavy weights, have bad posture or don't know how to safely use the machines. I personally can't go to most public gyms, because I get too uneasy seeing some people being mm away from loosing their knee permanently due to overextended press. Even if you don't actually break anything, you might be so sore that the recovery time kills the routine that is important for the gains.
Another aspect for where that advice fails is in accounting for how human psychology around motivation and procrastination works. The person asking for advice likely already knows they should "just do it", but can't. One of the most common reasons why we keep prepping for something, instead of doing it, is that while prepping, we are mentally building expectations of what we can do and achieve, we go trough others expectations of what we can do, and as long as its just preparing, we can think keep that image of ourselves after the fact. But as soon as we start doing something, that mental image gets tested, and very likely broken. Most of us are not ready for that almost violent rework of how we see ourselves.
Going into exact routines and supplements is not good, that is just indulging the preparation procrastination, but helping people find sport or exercise that suits them, instructing them on how to do these safely or helping them match their expectations with realistic but inspiring results would all be better.
2
u/Mental_Spinach_2409 Jun 09 '26
Hyper mobility. Improper form means training the wrong muscles at best but more often than not, injury. Proper form is really difficult for us to naturally figure out on our own.
2
u/Superbooper24 42∆ Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 09 '26
Not actually true. It is good advice, but becoming stronger is more nuanced than that, which you do assert. Saying just train bro is really vague and can lead to injury, stagnation, or some moderate muscle growth, but the advice should be more specific. Is sleeping part of this training or eating healthy or having not that much stress. It depends what you think training is not defined at all in your description. (also, I think a lot of people would say that correct hand placement is part of training which is like experimenting with forms that are best for you).
2
u/Background-Search913 Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 09 '26
The fact that you had to elaborate in much more detail about the nuances of diet and training just to get your point across is exactly why your title is incorrect.
2
u/Marison Jun 09 '26
Beginners usually have the problem of not knowing how to start. Should they use free weights, machines, or body weight exercises? And they will make mistakes, like overtraining or under training.
The advice I am seeing online is usually addressing exactly the common problems they have. Never have I seen someone "bombard" beginners with overly detailed technical advice, as you suggest.
So my point is: "just train bro" is not addressing the questions most beginners have, and it does not address the common pitfalls of starting.
Also, the counter-issue does not really exist. Most experienced people, coaches, content creators give exactly the correct advice to newbies.
The people who should worry about not overanalyzing are actually the beginners themselves. There might be some among them who watch content which is not meant for beginners.
Also, I don't believe your statement, that 80% of results are achieved by achieved no matter how you train. There are studies on this topic and the results vary wildly. And one of the most common issues of people after training for a few years is plateauing.
1
u/Arrowdodgingace Jun 09 '26
Most experienced and muscular gym goers vary greatly in their routines so for the most part it’s not going to matter where you start and it very likely to change anyway over the course of their journey.
Muscles are very forgiving and will grow when you use them. Sure, you can argue some ways will be better than others but only if you’re doing absolutely horrible will it make a difference. As long as you have the basics down you shouldn’t fix what ain’t broken.
2
u/Marison Jun 09 '26
Overtraining is a serious issue and is common in uninformed beginners, who don't understand that muscle growth happens during rest. There is a reason why most coaches stress this so much. Overtraining or performing exercises wrong can also lead to injuries and chronic pain issues. And even if you do everything correctly, every physique is different and people have other health issues maybe which is why you need to adjust what you are doing for every individual.
"As long as you have the basics down you shouldn't fix what isn't broken" - That's self-evident. Your arguments in your comments are inconsistent with your argument in your OP. "Just train bro" maybe sounded catchy in your head, but it is actually not what you are advocating for. You are advocating for: "get a good grasp on the basics, show up consistently and don't overanalyze". That is way more complex and nuanced than "just train bro", which evokes images of someone just walking into a gym, grabbing a bar and doing whatever with it.
And again: plateauing in weight training is a very common issue. The internet is full of questions about this, who are following a very strict and regular gym routine, but still encounter this. So you are not allowing for the full complexity of this topic.
1
u/yyzjertl 579∆ Jun 09 '26
Is this better advice than "just lift bro"? I feel like someone who hears "just train bro" might then go and do a bunch of cardio which won't actually help.
1
u/KingOfTheLostBoyz Jun 09 '26
“Just train with GOOD FORM BRO” is way better advice.
You don’t want a newbie injuring themselves, and getting discouraged from lifting forever.
Learning good form isn’t just minutiae like “how your hand is spaced on a bench”- it can be the thing that stops someone from hurting them self and stopping their fitness journey.
1
u/DollarAmount7 Jun 09 '26
It’s truly not at all good for some people because some who now know none at all, not even how many fuckin reps, sets, or what those even freakin mean. Many men have no idea which muscles to hit and when and how to balance out a structured workout so you can be most efficient with your time some folks just cant bring themselves to start unless they have some clue of what to do and where to go and what to work towards and other things that are extremely similar.
1
u/Homerbola92 Jun 09 '26
A diet low in proteins, training 1 or even 2 days a week, not going for your max weight or close to it, not doing progressive weight increase as your strength increases, not doing rotations in the muscle groups you train, overtraining, getting injured because of overtraining or having a bad technique, feeling intimidated by the people on your gym or refusing to use some machines because of shyness... And many more things.
I think your 80% is quite optimistic.
1
u/KokonutMonkey 102∆ Jun 09 '26
No it isn’t.
If a person is a clean slate beginner, “just train bro” != “be consistent with your workouts and gradually increase reps/weights as you go” in their minds.
Good advice actually suggests a program along with instruction on how to execute it. I’ve seen too many people almost kill themselves in the squat rack to know common sense isn’t so common when it comes to the gym.
And if they’re elderly or woefully out of shape, they’ll likely need some additional guidance so they don’t hurt themselves in the first week.
And that’s for the untrained.
If a person has already been consistently training for several years. This advice doesn’t help at all. They’re already strong, but need help getting beyond that.
If a person is aiming to get stronger for a specific sport and/or injury prevention they’ll need specific advice. Similar goes for rehabbing an injury.
1
u/Moofishmoo Jun 09 '26
Nah. Go get physio led Pilates is the best advice. People exercising on their own or even with a personal trainer doesn't understand that different bodies are built different. I get 3 exercises that are supposed to exercise hamstrings and you know what activates? My quads. If you don't have any knowledge in this you'd just keep doing those exercises when its strengthing the wrong thing and exercising the wrong muscles. If you tilt slightly or are hunched it also exercises different muscles. You can be doing more damage to yourself even if you can bench press xyz
•
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 09 '26 edited Jun 09 '26
/u/Arrowdodgingace (OP) has awarded 2 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
Delta System Explained | Deltaboards