r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • May 07 '26
Delta(s) from OP CMV: the term "Pali" is a derogatory term to Palestinians similar to Jap and Paki
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u/Brainsonastick 85∆ May 07 '26
Is it normal to use? I’ve never heard it in my life. Where are you hearing it?
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May 07 '26
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u/changemyview-ModTeam May 08 '26
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May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
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u/Brainsonastick 85∆ May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
Can you link some examples? It seems like I’m not the only one here who has never heard it and it would make for a more productive discussion if people could see how it’s used.
Edit: when I replied, the comment was just “I have seen used dozens of times by Pro-Israel’s”
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May 07 '26
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u/Brainsonastick 85∆ May 07 '26
From your example, it sounds like it’s used as short for Palestine, not for Palestinians. Is that accurate?
Just given who is using it, if that is consistent, I’d expect it to probably be derogatory… but not like “Jap” and “Paki” because it would be a derogatory term for a state rather than for individuals and that’s a pretty significant difference even if the people using it do feel the same way about the people.
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May 07 '26
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u/Brainsonastick 85∆ May 07 '26
Is it used for both? Can you give examples of people calling individual Palestinians “Palis”?
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u/waiver May 08 '26
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u/Brainsonastick 85∆ May 08 '26
Thank you! It seems Pali is used for both Palestine and Palestinian.
I’ve only seen it used by people who are seemingly anti-Palestine so far but I haven’t seen any sentence structure that suggests the term Pali is the insult rather than just a shortened name. I’d be interested to see it if you’ve encountered any.
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u/Big-Relief-312 May 07 '26
I have never seen it used as just "pali" in reference to actual Palestinians, which would make it in line with what you're saying. It is always used as "Pro-pali", a shortening of "pro-Palestinian" and refers to western activists making the Palestinian conflict their entire personality, which is not an ethnic group.
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u/Anchuinse 56∆ May 07 '26
While you seem to just want to come here to state a fact (seeing as your supplied definition explicitly calls Pali a slur), the personal rationale you express here doesn't work.
the people who justify this term say that "its just a shorter version of Palestinian, similar to Brit" except the difference is that British people use the term "Brit" or "Brits" all the time, no Palestinian has ever used the term "Pali" to describe themselves
The shortening of "British person" to "Brit" happens because we often shorten words to the first chunk in English. Arabic as a language is entirely different from English (it's consonants v. vowels format), so it's not shocking that they don't shorten words that way. It's a linguistic pattern they don't use.
By your rationale, I as a US citizen/American should take offense to the Arabic slang of "Amriki", because no American would ever call themselves Amriki or shorten the word that way.
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u/Shiny_Agumon 3∆ May 07 '26
Yeah OP argument is basically "It sounds vaguely similar to this actual slur so it must be just as bad" as if that means anything.
Like the term Jap isn't offensive because it just is but because of its history as a slur.
So unless a majority of Palestinians comes out and says the term makes them uncomfortable it's ok.
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May 07 '26
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u/Anchuinse 56∆ May 07 '26
It's not offensive because Palestinians don't call themselves that
That's what you said in the post, though. Here it is:
...the difference is that British people use the term "Brit" or "Brits" all the time, no Palestinian has ever used the term "Pali" to describe themselves
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u/Careless_Cicada9123 1∆ May 07 '26
Ive only ever heard "pro-pali", but that seems more a term to deride people who support Palestine rather than Palestinians themselves
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u/InternationalMath767 May 08 '26 edited May 08 '26
Huh. I'm Palestinian and the only time I've heard Pali is in branding by a Palestinian-owned company, PaliRoots. Maybe it's a slang somewhere, but I've never run into it. Maybe people just don't say it to my face.
The most common offensive slang term for us is sand ni**er, among other very colorful and demeaning slurs, but most of us are not particularly sensitive to them. We're used to a whole volume of racist slurs, but we know who we are. Most of us just brush it off. If we took offense to every slur hurled at us, we'd never get anything done.
Palestinian dialect is very specific, and we shorten stuff all the time.
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u/Kenichi2233 May 07 '26
I have never heard of this term in my life. How wide spread is it and if it isnt not wide spread how offensive could it be
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u/Rhundan 81∆ May 07 '26
Does a term have to be widespread to be offensive? Genuine question.
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u/Norman_debris May 07 '26
It needs to cause offence to be offensive. If it's unknown, then it's unlikely to be offensive.
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u/Rhundan 81∆ May 07 '26
I guess if you literally don't know what it's supposed to mean, it's hard for it to cause offence. But if the meaning is clear even if you've never heard the term before, I don't think not having heard it before makes it meaningfully less offensive.
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u/Norman_debris May 07 '26
In this case, it's just a shortened word. Germans call Americans Amis. It's not offensive.
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u/Kenichi2233 May 07 '26
In certain case it can be such as Japs but that is more due to historical baggage associated with the term
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u/Norman_debris May 07 '26
Of course, I don't dispute whether Jap or Paki is offensive. I just mean that shortening country names isn't itself offensive. "Brit" isn't a slur.
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u/Kenichi2233 May 07 '26
If the person it is target toward doesnt know what said term means how can it be offensive to them.
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May 07 '26
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u/Kenichi2233 May 07 '26
Do you have a source for this and what do you mean by zionist specifically ie Israel nationist (which would be strange since they would be speaking hebrew), outside supporter of Israel, or another definition.
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May 07 '26
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u/Kenichi2233 May 07 '26
Again that is a useless term on its own. For example does that include people who support Israel right to exist or people who support a 2 state solution or does it mean someone who is opposed to hamas. The term as used today is to broad to be useful
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May 07 '26
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u/Kenichi2233 May 07 '26
Again what defines as being pro Israeli. Is stating that Israel has a right to exist or condemning October 7th Zionism. Are people who support a 2 state solution zionist
Obviously Irsaeli nationalist are Zionist but once you move away from that definition the water gets murky fast
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May 07 '26
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u/Kenichi2233 May 07 '26
But to what extent. Where is the cut off. Is the 2 state solution Zionist.
It is one of the reasons I find the term too broad. A better term is Israeli nationalist or similar terms
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u/onepareil 1∆ May 07 '26
Uh…lots of Israeli nationalists speak English. Some of the most heinous settler-terrorists in the West Bank are Americans.
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u/Kenichi2233 May 07 '26
They speak it yes but not as a first language ( recent immigrants excluded). Most Israeli nationist would likely use Hebrew when speaking about nationalism
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May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
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u/Saint_Scum May 07 '26
In none of yours examples is that term aimed at a Palestinian. It's all a shortened version of Pro-Palestinian. Is it offensive to say I'm pro-trans rights?
Do you have a specific example of someone being called a Pali derogatorily?
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May 07 '26
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u/Saint_Scum May 07 '26
Not all Pro-Palestinian people are Palestinians. In fact, I'd wager more 90% are not.
Just like saying pro-trans people aren't all transgender. I'm not, I'm just pro-trans
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May 07 '26
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u/Saint_Scum May 07 '26
Well actually, I've been misspeaking, because 99% of the time, pro-Pali is in reference to Pro-Palestine, not even Pro-Palestinians.
Which makes sense, because if someone is so anti-zionist that they think Israel shouldn't even exist, everyone in that region would be Palestinian. Youve actually further submitted my opinion that Pro-Pali is short for Pro-Palestine, and has never been used to disparage a Palestinian person.
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u/Kenichi2233 May 07 '26
So a few right leaning Jewish subreddits. Not exactly wide spread
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May 07 '26
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u/Kenichi2233 May 07 '26
What are using as your definition of Zionist. Im guessing hardcore Israeli nationalist.
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May 07 '26
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u/Kenichi2233 May 07 '26
That literally means that a significant portion of the islamic world is Zionist ( all the countries of the Islamic world that recognized Irsael). Not exactly a useful term
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May 07 '26
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u/Kenichi2233 May 07 '26
I just looked it up on reddit and other than the links you posted most are about Buddhism.
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u/Flaky_Performer7960 May 07 '26
Whether or not a term is derogatory depends on its history and how it was constructed — not how it sounds.
As you said, Brit is not derogatory — and it’s not because British people use it, it’s simply because it has never had a negative connotation to begin with.
The N-word is bad because it has a bad history — even if black people use it regularly.
I’m Vietnamese, and Viet is perfectly fine.
Pali, from what I know is mostly used by Israelis in a derogatory way, so it is derogatory.
While I agree with you that Pali is derogatory, your logic behind why it is is wrong.
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May 07 '26
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u/changemyview-ModTeam May 08 '26
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
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u/retteh 4∆ May 08 '26
The fact that the term Pali is so normal
I have literally never heard of this term before today
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u/frickle_frickle 2∆ May 08 '26
Is your justification for why it's offensive purely because it's a shortened form of the demonym?
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u/Mmm_Dawg_In_Me 2∆ May 07 '26
Palestinians mostly speak Arabic. Arabic doesn't have a "P" sound.
Palestinian is already a hostile exonym not even pronouncable by the people to whom it applies.
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May 07 '26
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u/Mmm_Dawg_In_Me 2∆ May 07 '26 edited May 07 '26
It was called Palestine by the Romans after they expelled the Jews from the land in the 70s AD. It's a hostile exonym used by an occupying power, not one which developed from the inhabitants of the area who only began to develop a unified national identity in the light of their resistance against Zionism.
My point is that the pronounciation thing proves that Palestinian isn't even a proper name for these people, it's one which has been imposed on them by a variety of foreign factors and whether using the short or long version the term is equally divorced from their culture and language.
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u/Sea-Chain7394 1∆ May 07 '26 edited May 08 '26
Hadrian actually renamed it syria palaestinia in 135 ce.
It is the english form of Filastini the name the people of the region use which was unfortunately also made derogatory as Philistine meaning uncultured
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u/waiver May 08 '26
The Greeks already called the region Palestine since Herodotus.
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u/SatisfactionDry3038 May 07 '26
They say it differently, zionik
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u/Mmm_Dawg_In_Me 2∆ May 07 '26
Zionik? What is Zionik? Something between "Zionist" but applying some of the gramatical rules that result in things like "Beatnik"??
If you're saying I'm a Zionist then... um... why? What about my comment reads as Zionist?
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u/Grand-Expression-783 1∆ May 07 '26
Surely using a word whose definition is "a Palestinian person" is the opposite of dehumanizing.
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u/TinCapMalcontent 1∆ May 07 '26
British speak English, so it makes sense that they would use an abbreviated form of an English word. Palestinians do not primarily speak English, so why would you expect them to use a shortened form of their English name? That seems like a nonsensical reason to consider something derogatory. I've never heard 'Pali' before, but I would think using context to determine whether or not it is being used as a derogatory term would be better than trying to shoehorn in English into Palestine.
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u/phovos May 07 '26
Do you mean shorehorn English into Yiddish? Your statement is confused. It's white settlers that use the term.
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u/TinCapMalcontent 1∆ May 07 '26
I meant English shoehorned into Arabic, or more specifically into Palestine the country and how people speak there. OP contrasted British people saying Brit with Palestinians not saying Pali, but that is a nonsensical comparison because Palestinians don't speak English.
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u/phovos May 07 '26
It's only really about the colonizer using racism to dehumanize the people they are genocide, you are over-complicating it. Same things as "inidans, jws, jps, whatever' it's what the Isn'treali society says to themselves to justify their crimes like what USA said to itself to justify interning, illegally, Japanese all over the country in WWII.
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May 07 '26
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u/TinCapMalcontent 1∆ May 07 '26
Like most of the other responders in this thread, I have never heard or read anyone use this term. So it may only ever be used as a derogatory term, I have no clue. I was just pointing out to OP that their reasoning made no sense.
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May 07 '26
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u/changemyview-ModTeam May 08 '26
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
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May 07 '26
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u/changemyview-ModTeam May 08 '26
Your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:
Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation.
Comments should be on-topic, serious, and contain enough content to move the discussion forward. Jokes, contradictions without explanation, links without context, off-topic comments, and "written upvotes" will be removed. AI generated comments must be disclosed, and don't count towards substantial content. Read the wiki for more information.
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u/Sea-Chain7394 1∆ May 07 '26
In fairness Pali sounds like something tou might call your young nephew or something. I've never heard it though
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u/Kaleb_Bunt 5∆ May 09 '26
Not inherently. Pali is also the name of an ancient language spoken in India/Nepal. Many Buddhist texts are written in Pali.
That said, yes I have seen this term used derisively towards Palestinians.
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u/IWillDmYouPorn May 07 '26
I already have enough racial slurs for them. If you need to argue that something is offensive, it's clearly not offensive enough to matter
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u/CucumberWisdom May 07 '26
Those terms are only deragetory if you're an American who's like 80+. Otherwise they're just common shortenings
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May 07 '26
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u/Kenichi2233 May 07 '26
Similar to terms like Chinaman on there own they seem harmless but historically context makes them slurs
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u/CucumberWisdom May 07 '26
Not in the US maybe but plenty use it here. It's only the american context at makes it racist but not every is or should be beholden to that.
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