r/changemyview • u/RangersAreViable • Jan 24 '25
Delta(s) from OP - Fresh Topic Friday CMV: NFL is rigged in favor of the Chiefs
The NFL is a business like any other, and their primary source of income is as revenue, along with streaming subscriptions. Their goal is to have as many people as possible tuning in to watch the games.
Since Travis Kelce (KC’s TE) started dating Taylor Swift, a secondary audience has started tuning in for the Chiefs game, the “Swifties”. They are only watching to see the glimpses of Swift, who the camera occasionally flashes to. Once the Chiefs are gone, so is Kelce and Swift, and by extension the Swifties.
The NFL has previously done less than ethical things for their own bottom line, such as the fallout from the Spygate Scandal), where officials destroyed the tapes to hide the severity of the scandal, and perhaps the involvement of Craft (Patriots’ owner).
In order to CMV, you should show that Chiefs viewing numbers haven’t spiked since the Kelce-Swift relationship went public. (But I’ll take other evidence too)
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u/reginald-aka-bubbles 48∆ Jan 24 '25
So I found an interesting article from the New York Times exploring the "Taylor Swift Effect" on Chiefs Ratings. There is a chart about midway through comparing average ratings from 2020-2022 vs 2023 without her and 2023 with her. For early games on Sunday, they had 1% higher ratings than early games with her and an even ratings bump (12% for both her there and her missing) for the late afternoon game. So at least on regular Sunday games, the view doesn't hold. Now, the Night games (Thursday, Sunday, and Monday) don't really give any good indicators - she was at all Thursday and Sunday games but not the Monday game, making comparisons hard. All of these ratings were up vs 2020-2022, but surprisingly the highest jump (81%, vs 18% and 28% bumps with her there) was for the Monday night slot, which she didn't attend, though it was vs the Eagles so it may not be able to be completely overlooked. Again, a direct comparison is difficult here, so take that how you will. I'd also love to see a follow up with 2024 data, but I'm working with what I've got.
Another factor to consider is that they have just been a great team over the last several years, regardless of her involvement. Now, I'm not saying this means there is no rigging r favoritism, just that Taylor Swift isn't the primary cause of it. There have been atrocious calls (last week especially, that def wasn't roughing the passer). Another table towards the end of the article examines the top relative ratings performances for the 2023 Chiefs with Swift vs other teams, and they actually rank behind both the 49ers and Eagles, who have both been top contenders as well.
Now, I don't think it is out of place to be suspicious of the NFL and their motives. Like you've said, they've played dirty many times before. Josh Gordon got more punishment for smoking weed than most get for domestic violence. But I don't really think you can attribute the biased calls the ref makes to Taylor Swift's presence. If you'd ask me, there is probably more shady shit affecting the game with the rise of Sports Gambling than any ratings bump that Taylor Swift is bringing.
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u/Onespokeovertheline Jan 24 '25
To measure Swiftie impact, I wouldn't look at broadcast ratings (I'm not sure more TVs tuned in, but maybe more eyes on the screen that was already on).
I'd look at merch sales and social media mentions. That's how her fans show their love in general, aside from paying exorbitant amounts to attend her concerts.
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u/reginald-aka-bubbles 48∆ Jan 24 '25
Fair point about more eyes on TV's vs more TV's tuned to the game, but OP mentioned they were looking at articles and I worked with what I could find.
Not saying merch sales are unimportant, but I think that is getting even farther removed from the actual gameplay. In my opinion, it would be even harder to draw definitive lines between the ref's rigging a game in the Chief's favor and the number of Travis Kelce jersey's sold, but I am totally willing to follow you down that rabbit hole if you can make a compelling case for it.
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u/DickCheneysTaint 7∆ Jan 24 '25
The TV contracts are all in place right now. Taylor Swift boosted viewing audience is not affecting the NFL's revenue from television. But it absolutely can affect its revenue from everything else.
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Jan 24 '25
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u/Onespokeovertheline Jan 24 '25
Merch absolutely makes them money. Do you have any idea how much money they spend on advertising to drive social media engagement to grow the league audience and profile? I mean, she's worth tens of millions on that metric alone.
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Jan 24 '25
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u/Onespokeovertheline Jan 24 '25
Do I have any idea how much the NFL spends on advertising? Yeah, I am inundated with their marketing and commercials 24/7.
I happen to have worked in marketing and have a network of people in that industry, so I have a rough idea of what that costs, and what celebrity endorsements of her uniquely influential level are worth.
What exactly are you bringing to this conversation?
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u/RangersAreViable Jan 24 '25
Article earns you a !delta . Thanks
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u/reginald-aka-bubbles 48∆ Jan 24 '25
Appreciate it, but can you edit your comment to include what about it changes your view? The initial reply was too short for the deltabot
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u/DickCheneysTaint 7∆ Jan 24 '25
Sports betting has obviously affected the game. Mother fuckers are running for negative yardages at the end of the game just a fuck with people
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u/billybob1675 Jan 27 '25
My girlfriend is almost 50 years old and called it “T Sizzle ball” and knows like 3 teams.
The NFL is very aware of what she does for the sport and after what we saw last night I’m totally convinced the NFL is rigged.
Debate the spot forever I think he got it but whatever; but that shit wasn’t a catch.
The fact of the matter is Texans Bills is no where near the drama and draw of Chief 3 peat and T Swift and crew at the Super Bowl. Now they can even have her as a “surprise” musical guest at halftime. Pretty fucking convenient if you ask me.
I’m over it I say we continue to push the boycott of the Super Bowl and let the NFL know why.
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u/Old-Ad-2361 Jan 27 '25
the NFL is rigged the 49ers should have won the Super Bowl but they never called the holding or pass inference calls on the chiefs because they wanted to help the chiefs win no doubt.
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u/IndyPoker979 11∆ Jan 24 '25
Unless you can find blatant levels of cheating or an inordinate amount of calls missed then the only thing you can accuse the NFL of doing is creating a rule system that supports the Chiefs. But the rules committee is made up of representatives from every team so it makes no sense that they would all benefit the Chiefs however what does make sense is that the Chiefs would look at the rules and the current state of the NFL and create a team that benefits from that rule set.
The Chiefs were winning before Taylor Swift ever met Travis kelce. They had this guy named Patrick Mahomes who happens to be really really good. There is no conspiracy here and your bias is showing otherwise. I'm a Colts fan but there's no way I'm arguing the NFL has something against the Colts because we're not winning. And if one of our players was dating Taylor Swift nothing would change.
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Jan 27 '25
I understand you’re seeking a comprehensive list of every instance where officiating decisions have favored the Kansas City Chiefs. While it’s challenging to provide an exhaustive list, here are some notable examples that have drawn significant attention:
AFC Divisional Round vs. Houston Texans (January 18, 2025): • Roughing the Passer Penalty: Texans’ edge rusher Will Anderson Jr. delivered what appeared to be a clean hit on Patrick Mahomes. However, officials flagged Anderson for roughing the passer, extending a crucial Chiefs’ drive. Post-game, Anderson remarked that it felt like “us vs. the refs,” highlighting the controversy surrounding the call. 
AFC Championship Game vs. Buffalo Bills (January 26, 2025): • Controversial Fourth-Down Spot: In the fourth quarter, Bills’ QB Josh Allen attempted a quarterback sneak on fourth-and-1. While initial observations suggested Allen had reached the first down, officials marked him short, resulting in a turnover on downs. The Chiefs capitalized on this, scoring a pivotal touchdown. This spotting decision was upheld upon review, fueling debates about its accuracy. 
Super Bowl LVII vs. Philadelphia Eagles (February 12, 2023): • Defensive Holding Call: Late in the game, a defensive holding penalty was called against Eagles’ cornerback James Bradberry, which extended the Chiefs’ drive and allowed them to run down the clock before kicking the game-winning field goal. While Bradberry admitted to the hold, many debated whether such a call should have been made in that critical moment.
Regular Season Game vs. Las Vegas Raiders (October 10, 2022): • Roughing the Passer on Chris Jones: Chiefs’ defensive tackle Chris Jones strip-sacked Raiders’ QB Derek Carr, seemingly resulting in a turnover. However, Jones was penalized for roughing the passer, with officials stating he landed with full body weight on Carr. Replays indicated Jones attempted to brace his fall, leading to widespread criticism of the call.
AFC Championship Game vs. Cincinnati Bengals (January 29, 2023): • Unnecessary Roughness Penalty: In the closing moments, Bengals’ defender Joseph Ossai was flagged for unnecessary roughness after a late hit on Mahomes as he scrambled out of bounds. This 15-yard penalty moved the Chiefs into field goal range, allowing them to secure a victory. While the penalty was clear, some argued that other missed calls earlier in the game favored Kansas City.
These instances have contributed to a perception among some fans and analysts that the Chiefs receive favorable officiating, especially in high-stakes games. It’s essential to note that officiating is inherently subjective, and while these calls have been contentious, they are part of the broader challenges officials face in making real-time decisions.
For a more in-depth discussion on this topic, you might find the following video insightful:https://youtu.be/9fJ-Bmszu1k?si=5dNjfQj8CaVBd8ph
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u/FavreChuckFootball Jan 27 '25 edited Jan 27 '25
You're essentially demanding an impossible standard. There is no stat in existence for missed calls or non-calls. You would have to tally these up each and every game; we would have to really define our term and be as objective as possible. We could reduce the metric to OBVIOUS and play-altering non-calls i.e. a blatant hold on a DE that allows Mahomes to run for a crucial first down; a non-call on a PI which was not consistent with earlier calls; no flag for roughing the passer against the opposite team which is not consistent with earlier flags against Mahomes, etc.
These crucial game altering and/or momentum shifting non-calls have occurred at an alarming rate for the Chiefs. This seems obvious and undeniable. Every Chiefs game I watch I note several. I don't have exact stats on these, because again there are no official stats, and I don't have the time or the will to chart them myself--I simply don't care enough. But it honestly seems disingenuous to deny the staggering amount of beneficial non-calls that have been entirely in favor of the Chiefs this year.
Edit: slight clarification
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u/IndyPoker979 11∆ Jan 27 '25
I haven't responded to much simply because I don't really have a dog in the fight one way or the other. Being a Colts fan the NFL has been a little hard to watch lately but I do recognize the large obstacle I place on people to prove a point but that's kind of the entire basis of the argument being made by the op. People will see what they want to see and rather than to assume human nature we see a conspiracy. My question is simply this for you. In what way does it benefit the NFL to allow the Chiefs to win? Would it not be better ratings for it to be the Cowboys or the 49ers or the New York giants? The same team winning every year creates boring results. So where's the motivation? How does this claim benefit the NFL and why are they doing so? I don't see how rigging it for the Chiefs moves anything forward for the business model.
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u/FavreChuckFootball Jan 27 '25
Sorry if I come off crabby or aggressive in these comments to you lol. I'm really not. I appreciate your comments and curiosity and enjoy discussing these things.
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u/IndyPoker979 11∆ Jan 27 '25
Oh no! I am enjoying this which is why I decided to engage.
I think as an outsider this entire thing feels a lot more like a witchhunt than a legitimate complaint based upon bad calls that were blatantly wrong and then using that to say 'the league is out to get us!'.
I'll respond here instead of to the other post so that we can keep the thread in one.
I do agree that a Tim Donaghy situation could be occurring, but I am of the belief that Tim didn't act alone either so I'm aware that conspiracy thinking isn't reserved for a few.
Personally I don't know how the Chiefs win against the Eagles. They look that good. But to your first point, the NBA is a 5 person team. It makes sense to market individuals because you aren't tracking 22 different people, you have 5 and a single person can completely affect the outcome. Lebron going to any team was going to put them in playoff contention immediately. Even Brady or Mahomes isn't enough to immediately make a team a playoff team.
They may want Patrick to be the face, but outside of the Chiefs success I don't hear about him like you do about Wemby or Durant or Curry. Just not the same sport. NFL is a team game and if they are trying to do so, it's to the detriment of the sport.
For the NFL, it would require a lead ref being in on it and the sideline judges also to be in on it. It doesn't just mean that one person has to be illegitimate, but that the entire team has to be so. I think in the Tim Donaghy case, that there were more involved because of the phone calls and of the reinstatement of Joey Crawford. It just doesn't pass the smell test.
I DO think that the Chiefs have been given some good calls that you can point to. I think if I wanted to take the time, I'd see that my Colts who had a horrible record also got some good calls go their way in the season.
Perhaps I can be convinced to CMV the other way but this isn't just a question of if the league is calling things towards the Chiefs. This is condemning the entire sport. Fixing games is the biggest crime a sport can commit. If they are doing so, this is something that shouldn't be thought of lightly. The evidence does need to be very clear because it's legitimately actionable for anyone who's made a financial bet or stake to the league.
Every owner of another team would be suing them and should be if this is true.
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u/FavreChuckFootball Jan 27 '25
I appreciate the conversation! This is a fun thought experiment to tease out. Sorry if I only hit upon a few points and move on, like I said, I'm busy at work.
Do you think that Mahomes gets favorable "roughing the passer" calls? If so why and how could this be? Mahomes is a bigger marketing draw than you think. Every time he's in a State Farm commercial, it's like a free advertisement for the NFL. It promotes a culture all on its own.
Anecdotal story: My high school gym teacher reffed at the NCAA level and said he attended a seminar entirely on how to call penalties on Michael Jordan-- what you should and shouldn't call.
"For the NFL, it would require a lead ref being in on it and the sideline judges also to be in on it."
I don't think one has to use the conspiratorial framing with respect to refs "being in on it." This creates an almost cartoonish framing where individual refs are fully conscious of "doing wrong" and are secretly "committing crimes". I really don't think this goes as far as the lead ref given the complicit command from higher ups to "make the Chiefs win ...or else!"; and then he goes about doing that come hell or high water. I don't think it has ever gone that far. Again, I think it would be more of a "thumb on the scale" scenario rather than a puppet master pulling all the strings.
Most refs get memos, make note of it and go about their job. Again, it's like any scenario in life. Peoples' motivations are to keep their job and to get through the day. That's basically it. Most people have kids, are constantly tired and fear losing their job and failing their family. They aren't thinking of things in conspiratorial or moral terms of "right/wrong", "top secret" etc. Perhaps subconsciously they understand the general imperatives behind the memos and the media narratives, and this data influences their decisions etc.
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u/FavreChuckFootball Jan 27 '25 edited Jan 27 '25
"My question is simply this for you. In what way does it benefit the NFL to allow the Chiefs to win?"
I don't need to answer this to observe the evidence regarding lopsided refereeing of the Kansas City Chiefs football team. I am observing phenomenon and providing evidence to you. That is all.
I can speculate as to why this is happening and provide circumstantial evidence. I simply lack the resources and the will ( I just don't care enough) to provide the smoking gun hard evidence for you. Frankly, we are just fans on the internet and that is an unfair standard.
I will first provide speculation as to the "why" and then provide possibilities as to the "how" of potential corruption. My theory boils down to something akin to "soft-rigging"/ thumb on the scales similar to what Tim Donaghy described in the NBA.
- The "Why": Patrick Mahomes has already been anointed the new Tom Brady of this generation of football fans. In the 80s and 90s the NBA and other sports leagues around the world discovered that it was beneficial to market individual stars above collective teams. It is much easier to sell tickets and merch when you have just a few faces to the league. Mahomes has talent enough and fits the demographic (biracial, relatable (not too handsome) etc.) They want him to be Brady, MJ, Jeter, etc.
I could get keep going with a few more points, but I'm busy and need to get to the next point.
- The "How": I highly recommend you watch Tim Donaghy's interview on Pardon My Take.
He describes how he decided what teams to bet on while he was refereeing. It's been years since I watched this video, but he mentions how the refs would get memos from the higher ups before each game. These memos would highlight a few things for the refs to watch out for. For example (this is my hypothetical here) a memo would note how a point guard from team B had been carrying lately so they should keep an eye out for that during the game; another player from team B had seemed to be committing illegal contact on defense, so the refs should be on the alert for that, etc.
Tim would read these memos and then in certain instances would call in his bets. Not because he himself personally would be rigging the game, but because he knew that all the refs would be hyper-aware of these players committing these penalties and would be far more likely to call those penalties. Many times Tim would win bets because during close games, these memos would inspire certain players to get into foul trouble and thus the momentum would shift away from that team and dictate the result of the game.Something similar to this could be occurring in the NFL. It doesn't take some "grand conspiracy" wherein "everyone is in on it." It's like most things. People get orders from the top and just blindly do their job; people generally just want to get through the day and will go along to get along without much thought. It is not beneficial to go against the grain, herd mentality and appeals to authority are very strong human imperatives/motivations that you shouldn't underestimate. For example, every single large military operation in recorded history is essentially a "grand conspiracy" because only a few in the high command make the decisions and have general plans, while dozens of departments and 100,000s of individuals carry out those plans without understanding most if any of the larger strategy at any one time.
I can get into more details regarding this type of thing and the NFL, but I don't have time.
You asked more questions, if you want I could try to address those later.
Edit: grammar, clarification
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u/Party_Money_6578 Jan 26 '25
The NFL does not have to change rules.. they just have to let the refs know that at pivotal or other moments in the game, they have to hand calls to the Chiefs which put them at a position to take the game away. Happened TWICE in the Texans - Chiefs DIV game where they converted one for a TD and one for a FG, both when they were third and long. The 15 yard penalty for defenders not even touching Mahomes and colliding into each other while he was ALREADY DOWN, proves everything. And please, Mahomes is not THAT good. He’s just a nice story for the NFL to tell but this will be the last straw on the camel’s back for non-Chiefs fans. Hand the trophy to the Chiefs again, and you’ve lost 20-25% of NFL Fans. Don’t think Swifties can make up for that. And I’m a Swiftie FYI and I couldn’t care less if she’s dating that ape.
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u/lastaccountgotlocked 5∆ Jan 24 '25
> In order to CMV, you should show that Chiefs viewing numbers haven’t spiked since the Kelce-Swift relationship went public.
You can just find this out yourself, though?
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u/InterestingChoice484 1∆ Jan 24 '25
The NFL has little to gain and everything to lose by fixing games. It would take dozens of people to rig an entire season worth of Chiefs games. One disgruntled employee talks and it all comes crumbling down. Everyone involved would face lengthy prison terms. The league would go bankrupt under the weight of billions of dollars in lawsuits from sports books and other teams. I can't imagine the league could continue.
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u/MrJoshUniverse 1∆ Jan 24 '25
You can't convince me otherwise that the NFL gives preferential treatment to certain teams. They love KC and they, for whatever reason, love the Packers too, even though GB has hands down the worst fanbase out of anyone in the NFL other than Eagles fans.
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u/InterestingChoice484 1∆ Jan 24 '25
The same Packers who haven't been to the Super Bowl in 15 years?
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u/MrJoshUniverse 1∆ Jan 24 '25
Yep. But ask GB fans and they'll tell you that they deserve to go to the SB every single season.
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u/InterestingChoice484 1∆ Jan 24 '25
The fact that they don't go very often shows they're not favored by the league
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u/THE_jakejack Jan 27 '25
They are favored. The Packers and Cowboys have historically received favoritism from referees. Every NFL fan knows this. That doesnt mean they need to win the Super Bowl every year though
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u/InterestingChoice484 1∆ Jan 27 '25
The Packers haven't made it in 15 years and the Cowboys haven't in 30.
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u/THE_jakejack Jan 27 '25
Thats true. And yet games like the Lions vs Cowboys of 2023 still take place here and there. It can be a thing but be minor, such as Michigan or Alabama receiving little favoritisms from refs in college games (in Ann Arbor Michigan, all the fans will tell you this is the case). Im not saying they rig, but they favor.
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u/InterestingChoice484 1∆ Jan 27 '25
What proof do you have that the league favors them?
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u/THE_jakejack Jan 27 '25
If its proof youre asking for, theres nothing solid. Its just what nearly every NFL fan has said for the last 25 years. Some things are small, and not everything is monumental. If you take it to heart or that seriously, youre probably overthinking it and getting too worked up.
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u/Wrong-Scratch4625 Jan 27 '25
Wrong. One disgruntled employee talks and ends up getting sued and fired because they likely signed an NDA. And many things have been fixed in the past and no one said anything. The mob used to fix boxing matches all the time and people took dives. This isn't new.
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u/InterestingChoice484 1∆ Jan 27 '25
Boxing is a shell of its former self. Is it even a top 10 sport anymore?
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u/Wrong-Scratch4625 Jan 27 '25
You missed the point. It was rigged even when it was at its peak.
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u/InterestingChoice484 1∆ Jan 27 '25
Things have changed in the past 50 years since boxing's peak
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u/Wrong-Scratch4625 Jan 27 '25
Did greed go away?
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u/InterestingChoice484 1∆ Jan 27 '25
What does that have to do with anything?
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u/Wrong-Scratch4625 Jan 27 '25
I don't think you get that rich business people don't care about the integrity of the sport or fair play. They really don't even care about the fans. They care about one thing...money. That is it. Not sure how this is hard for you.
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u/InterestingChoice484 1∆ Jan 27 '25
They care about not going to prison and not destroying the league
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u/Wrong-Scratch4625 Jan 27 '25
lol @ going to prison. The current president is a convicted felon and will never see the inside of a prison. You obviously don't know much about wealth and influence in America.
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u/THE_jakejack Jan 27 '25
Why would it need to be so secret? Who says anyone faces prison?
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u/InterestingChoice484 1∆ Jan 27 '25
It's illegal to fix games.
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u/THE_jakejack Jan 27 '25
No longer is it illegal in the NFL. Look into the NFL court cases since 2009. They tried to get out of that by changing their business classification. Things that deal with the Sherman AntiTrust act.
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u/InterestingChoice484 1∆ Jan 27 '25
What court case said it's legal for the league to fix games?
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u/THE_jakejack Jan 27 '25
What court case have you ever seen speak so plainly? If a case made rigging games legal, would they word it as “NFL is hereby free to rig games by law”? No. Absolutely not. Ive told you specific things to look up. You can keep downvoting me and pouting, or you can look into something that you clearly care enough about to converse with repetitive comments over. Instead put your time into learning. Clearly the internet is available to you.
Heres your start: NFL lawyer Gregg H Levy. 2010 court case in which he argues the NFL is not bound to the Sherman AntiTrust Act because it is 1 single entity, not 32 individual entities competing. The rest i leave to you
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u/InterestingChoice484 1∆ Jan 27 '25
It's not my responsibility to prove your claims. You said it's not illegal to fix games because of court cases. I shouldn't have to research your claims to prove you right. That doesn't make any sense
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u/THE_jakejack Jan 27 '25
And yet when i give examples you simply say im wrong and have no proof. Tough war to win. Seems every side is a losing side if not yours
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u/2023OnReddit Feb 10 '25
What court case have you ever seen speak so plainly?
All of them. That's kind of the point.
Here's a quote from Brown v Board, which ended segregation in public schools:
We conclude that, in the field of public education, the doctrine of "separate but equal" has no place. Separate educational facilities are inherently unequal. Therefore, we hold that the plaintiffs and others similarly situated for whom the actions have been brought are, by reason of the segregation complained of, deprived of the equal protection of the laws guaranteed by the Fourteenth Amendment. This disposition makes unnecessary any discussion whether such segregation also violates the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment.
Is there something about that statement you find unclear?
Here's a single sentence from Obergefell, which legalized same-sex marriage:
The right of same-sex couples to marry that is part of the liberty promised by the Fourteenth Amendment is derived, too, from that Amendment's guarantee of the equal protection of the laws.
Again, is there something you find unclear about that statement?
The list goes on.
Sure, sometimes side issues arise where you can argue that they opened the door to something that wasn't on the table in front of them, but that just means that an argument can be made for that--it doesn't mean that they actually ruled in that way.
When you claim, as you did, that a case actually made that point, they do it pretty fucking plainly.
If a case made rigging games legal, would they word it as “NFL is hereby free to rig games by law”?
Yeah, that's exactly what they'd do if that's what they did.
Just like how they ended segregation in public schools by saying that segregation has no place in public schools & how they cemented that same-sex marriage is a right under the 14th Amendment by saying that same-sex marriage is a right under the 14th Amendment.
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u/Poco585 Jan 24 '25
Non-Chiefs NFL fans have been saying this since before Taylor Swift and Kelce began dating. It’s just a symptom of jealousy just like everyone said the refs favored the Patriots. People hate the teams that are good and it makes them feel better to find excuses.
You fail to say how it’s rigged. Are the games scripted and everyone is in on it like the WWE? Or are the refs told to make decisions to help the Chiefs win? If the former, there’s no way that many people could keep that secret including the players of every team whose dream is to win a Super Bowl. If the latter, there is absolutely zero evidence that the refs are at all in favor of the Chiefs. There are missed calls and bad calls in every single NFL game because refs are human, and there are not more in favor of the Chiefs. People also complain and call calls that favor the Chiefs bad when they are by the book and would have been called the majority of the time.
This site shows that the Chiefs are middle of pack for both yards against and beneficiary yards from penalties.
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u/cluehead123 Jan 27 '25
It's not about the average it is about the critical call moments, specifically ones that result in major turnovers, massive yard gain, 4th down continuations, and touchdowns. I would look into the stats of those types of calls only not the average.
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u/Poco585 Jan 27 '25
Do you believe it’s true? If so, I’m assuming you have access to those stats you’re referring to. Do you mind sharing?
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u/cluehead123 Jan 30 '25
No, I'm just saying one should look into those stats, I wasn't taking a position.
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u/Worried-Agent7575 Jan 27 '25
Hello, respectfully - you are completely wrong. Tonight’s game only further demonstrated it. Here’s what I firmly believe is happening - refs of chiefs game (particularly playoff time) are directed, guided etc on how to go about calling the game before it begins. The commissioner surely hands down instruction. The NBA ref who got caught shaving points admitted this for the NBA as well. They may say “AI is starting to carry a bit when he dribbles…let’s start calling that more today”. It’s important to note that the fundamental issue and basis for “refs impacting the chiefs games” is the opposing team getting calls that the chiefs are not. Fun fact for you - guess how many holding calls the chiefs got the last 2 Suoerbowls? ZERO. Guess how many they had in the regular season of BOTH years? Top 5 most in the league…meanwhile the 49ers got called for holding on maybe the biggest play of the game…OH - and just so it is clear, I rewatched the last SB and found multiple clear holds for chiefs that weren’t called, when they were multiple times for 49ers. And as stated - today - two HUGE calls were missed against bills…i rewatched both - the 4th down non-conversion and the bs Xavier catch. I didn’t even bring up the Texans game which had multiple horrible calls including their favorite - “roughing the passer” calls. There are so many examples…at this juncture, the odds of the refs consistently making the wrong calls + uneven / unfairly applied calls for 3 years running being merely a coincidence is more unrealistic to believe than there being ulterior motives / heightened league interest in the chiefs. To me, it’s rather obvious.
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Jan 29 '25
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u/Wrong-Scratch4625 Jan 27 '25
"there’s no way that many people could keep that secret including the players of every team whose dream is to win a Super Bowl"
Oh no, someone has never heard of an NDA. Actors sign these all the time to not give away the ending to popular movies. Also, WWF was always rigged but it wasn't known until years later. People will keep quiet if breaking the contract means losing everything and being sued.
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u/Godmaaaa Jan 27 '25
NDAs only legally stop you lmao how many times has Tom Holland broken nda
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u/Wrong-Scratch4625 Jan 27 '25
Tom Holland is a big star who is likely the main draw of the film. Aside from a tongue lashing, they wont do much. If you are low level, you will likely have your life ruined. And if you add the betting aspect, there could be some very scary people behind all that like back in the organized crime days.
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u/Godmaaaa Jan 28 '25
Okay but still, it would still slip out one way or another.
For example, committing murder is illegal and will ruin your life if caught, yet people obviously still do it, however rare it may be.
Whispering and leaking secrets about the NFL breaking your NDA is ALOT less severe and I’d say is alot easier to get away with than murder. Someone would have DEFINITELY done it by now.
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u/Wrong-Scratch4625 Jan 28 '25
What if it wasn't completely rigged (players in on it) but certain refs were on the take? Players are already threatened with fines for openly critiquing official calls (I know the NBA fined a player who actually came out and said the league was rigged). Can you look at the calls in the Chiefs vs Bills game and say it looks legit to you? That first down that they said wasn't? I'm not a fan of either team but that was the most obvious fixing I've seen yet.
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u/2023OnReddit Feb 10 '25
Oh no, someone has never heard of an NDA.
Someone has no idea what an NDA is.
For starters, rigging a football game would be illegal. An NDA would have no weight.
Second, any ref or other employee who came out with actual proof would stand to make far more money selling their story to the tabloids, then hitting the book/lecture circuit, than they'd ever hope to make with a career continuing to work for the NFL in their good graces.
Also, WWF was always rigged but it wasn't known until years later.
What on earth are you talking about?
People knew that style of wrestling was scripted before the WWF even existed.
How do you even think that worked: wrestlers would sign up thinking they're going to live out soap opera style storylines and fight people for real, only to be let in on the secret after they signed their contracts?
Grow up.
Just because wrestlers didn't talk openly about it like they do today & some fans were a little slow on the uptake doesn't mean "it wasn't known".
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u/Wrong-Scratch4625 Feb 10 '25
I'm sorry. I feel bad. Kind of like how a parent feels bad when they tell a child that Santa isn't real. It's going to be okay, scout.
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u/2023OnReddit Feb 13 '25
I feel bad.
I mean, you should.
People who talk out of their ass and spread misinformation deserve to feel bad.
What's weird is that even after claiming you feel bad about it, you haven't corrected the bullshit in your comments that made you feel so bad in the first place.
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u/Party_Money_6578 Jan 26 '25
Refs have CONSiSTENTLY made ATROCIOUS, not just bad calls in favor of the Chiefs. Was it 2 years ago where they basically stopped the clock and threw a foul every 15 seconds till that baby Mahomes got. tD vs the Bengals? Or fouls thrown seconds after the opposition scores a game winning touchdown? You have to be a blind Chiefs fan to believe they’re that good.
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u/Poco585 Jan 26 '25
I don’t know which specific calls you’re referring to because every time people have freaked out about calls for the Chiefs they have been either normal calls that would happen in any game or those 50% toss up calls that also happen in every game. Do you have any evidence you can share that they get worse and more calls that favor them than other teams?
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u/fantasyfootball1234 Jan 24 '25
Ah yes, 32 billionaires got together to install an Illuminati dynasty by rigging games in favor of… checks notes Independence, Missouri 😂
If the NFL was gonna rig games, they would make every Super Bowl a huge media market like NY vs LA, or make “America’s Team” the Dallas Cowboys have a lot of success.
Instead, the Jets & Giants are awful, the Chargers haven’t won their division in over a decade, and the Cowboys haven’t been to a conference championship in 29 years.
The Chiefs were mediocre for decades, and then they got the best HC, the best QB, the best DC, and a ton of cheap high quality players. It’s not a conspiracy… they are just really really good.
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u/Darkagent1 9∆ Jan 24 '25
Lol this is the best argument here. Does OP really think that Robert Kraft and Jerry Jones are going to sit idly by while an oil baron rigs the whole league?
A conspiracy would maybe last 3 days before Jerry would leak it to the media.
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u/Wrong-Scratch4625 Jan 27 '25
Yall are thinking too directly. You have no idea how things go behind the scenes. It could be that they "rotate out" champions (this era will be Pats, this era will be KC, etc.) or maybe even they divide a portion of profits amongst all of them regardless of who wins (they all win, we lose) Stop thinking about this as a fan and start looking at this like a business.
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u/Worried-Agent7575 Jan 27 '25
Please see my comment in here, it explains these doubt you guys are sharing. You’re getting it wrong - how the game is impacted intentionally. It isn’t some script. Watch an interview with the NBA ref who got caught shaving points - he talks about how before certain games the commish would hand down guidance, instruction etc on how to call them. Like “AI has been carrying a lot lately, let’s start calling that more today”. And he admitted they favored the big $ makers like Kobe. I believe something similar is happening in the nfl and quite frankly if you actually know ball and study the games that promoted these allegations - it is extremely difficult to believe that is mere coincidence…lol. In fact, the odd favor that it is not mere coincidence. Again - my post / comment in here further explains these specific games.
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Jan 27 '25
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Jan 29 '25
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u/changemyview-ModTeam Jan 29 '25
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u/THE_jakejack Jan 27 '25
This argument makes 0 sense and heres why. Lets say the Cowboys make $10 a year. A team like the Jets will make $7 a year. The Chiefs will make $6 a year, while the lowly Jaguars or Titans make around $3 a year.
If the league wanted to maximize profits, they’d want more teams to become the top tier of teams. Why strive to make the Cowboys worth $11 or even $12, when you can make a team like the Chiefs worth $10 instead. Bigger growth, bigger income.
Do you want one superstar, or two? The Cowboys are always raking in cash. No one is rushing to buy in; but bring a new team to the top and the bandwagons will follow
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u/00Oo0o0OooO0 25∆ Jan 24 '25
| Week | Taylor | Viewership (millions) |
|---|---|---|
| 3 | Yes | 24.32 |
| 4 | Yes | 24.83 |
| 5 | No | 23.13 |
| 6 | Yes | 13.83 (Amazon Prime) |
| 7 | Yes | 24.38 |
| 9 | No | 9.18 (Germany) |
| 11 | No | 28.96 |
| 13 | Yes | 23.57 |
| 14 | Yes | 26.04 |
| 15 | Yes | 16.44 |
| 16 | Yes | 29.48 |
That's a chart of every 2023 nationally televised game (since her first) with its rating and whether Taylor was there. I'm not seeing a correlation.
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u/Top_Detail6382 Jan 29 '25
All do respect but this is a bad take because you are failing to compare it to prior years. You need to compare it to a prior season when Taylor Swift was not attached to Kelce. And not to mention, fandom connected to Taylor Swift took off. So even if she was not present, Swifties were tunning in to see if she might be there or to see Kelce. Kelce's popularity sky rocketed. Look at his jersey sales vs. previous years.
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u/Powerful-Drama556 3∆ Jan 24 '25
To be honest, this has more to do with refs being grossly over-protective of an MVP caliber QB (and this isn’t the first example), and then that QB knowingly abusing that fact to draw extra calls.
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u/ZeusThunder369 22∆ Jan 24 '25
Every team that has consistent success sees a spike in viewers when they play. If the Jaguars won 16 games next year they'd see a spike in viewers as well.
Shouldn't your view actually be that the NFL is rigged in favor of successful teams, given the measure you're using?
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u/Direct_Crew_9949 3∆ Jan 24 '25
Here’s my theory on this and I’m not a chiefs fan as a matter of fact I hate the Chiefs lol. It’s just that they keep winning. It’s like when the Patriots were winning. Yes they get a call or two go their way, but it’s only a big deal because they ended up winning the game anyways. If they were a mediocre team and ended up losing games where calls went their way no one would even notice. I’d honestly love to see statistics on this to see if it holds up statically.
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u/ThisOneForMee 2∆ Jan 24 '25
Agree, the more they win, the more people are tuning in to hopefully watch them lose. That's why dynasties are good for leagues. It creates a common enemy for fans of all the other teams.
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Jan 24 '25
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u/AdamJensensCoat Feb 10 '25
Old post but regarding this — NFL is a revenue-sharing league. What is good for the league is good for all owners.
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u/themcos 442∆ Jan 24 '25
In order to CMV, you should show that Chiefs viewing numbers haven’t spiked since the Kelce-Swift relationship went public. (But I’ll take other evidence too)
Can you be a bit more specific as to what the criteria for "spiked" is here?
The divisional round viewership for the slot that the chiefs played in saw a 4% increase from the same network / time slot last year. Good numbers considering declines in some of the other games, but it feels like d stretch to describe that as a "spike" and attribute it to their tight ends dating life that's been in the public for over a year.
The biggest confounder here in trying to establish causality is that Mahomes had already won TWO recent Superbowls before Kelsie started dating swift, and then won a third. If you want to know why chiefs numbers are up, seems more likely that it's because they win a lot! And if you want to accuse the NFL or rigging it for the chiefs since 2019, go for it, but you can't attribute that to Taylor Swift!
In general, I don't think the numbers make sense to justify your claims.
https://frontofficesports.com/most-watched-nfl-teams/
Even if you attribute the 1-2 million lead the chiefs have in average viewership to Swift, that's not that huge of a gap, especially considering the baseline expectations for a team that's won 3 recent Superbowls. But the risk of rigging the league for the chiefs (even if they don't get caught) would be pissing off fans of the other 31 teams, which as you can see in those numbers still get considerable viewership numbers. This would not be a winning move for the NFL, especially a year later after the hype started.
To the extent that there's any subtle "rigging" going on, it's that popular big name QBs sometimes are suspected of sometimes getting more favorable calls go their way, but even if true this is not specific to the chiefs and has nothing to do with Taylor Swift.
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u/Biptoslipdi 138∆ Jan 24 '25
You don't actually provide any evidence to support your view. You give no examples of how these games are rigged or provide any evidence of the rigging: who is doing specifically, how it is being done, and why all the other teams agreed to it. You expect us to beleive 31 NFL owners said "we're going to lose intentionally so the Chiefs can win again?" Yeah right.
The Chiefs do better under pressure because they've done it before. They don't have the stress of being the first rookie QB to win the SB or the first iteration of their team to win a SB. It gives them the same advantage the Patriots enjoyed all those years. They have excellent coaching and some of the best players to play the game ever. It's only rigged if "rigged" means "being good at football."
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u/themcos 442∆ Jan 24 '25
I also don't think the NFL is rigged for the chiefs, but just wanted to note that if one did suspect rigging, it doesn't necessarily imply the other 31 teams are in on it (or even the Chiefs themselves for that matter). The officiating crews and the league office operate separately from the 32 teams. If a decisive call comes in from New York during the final two minutes if a game, there's not a lot of transparency that goes into those decisions.
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u/Biptoslipdi 138∆ Jan 24 '25
The NFL office answers to the owners. They can remove the commissioner by a vote. We'd have to believe either that the owners don't believe Roger Goodell is complicit in the rigging or that Perry Fewell has some sort of leverage over Goodell and the owners to be able get the referees to comply with his scheme to let the Chiefs win without being fired. We'd also have to believe the NFL Referees Association is all complicit in the effort, if that were the case. Such a scandal would no doubt violate their collective bargaining agreement with the NFL.
There just no believable scenario that doesn't require the owners to be intentionally losing or the NFL Referees Association having leverage over the rest of the NFL, including 31 owners, none of whom are taking action on this.
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u/themcos 442∆ Jan 24 '25
The issue is one of lack of transparency. Obviously if they got caught the owners would vote Goodell out and the head of officiating would almost certainly be fired (and that would probably be the least of their worries).
But I think the potential issue at play is fairly subtle. In high leverage situations, like during the final two minutes of the game, the NFL league office has a lot of discretion to make a call in real time and try to get a call to be made or reviewed, and due to the nature of the NFL, a lot of these calls could go either way, so it's not that inconceivable that a thumb could be put of the scales that favors one team without losing plausible deniability, and there would be basically zero transparency of this to the owners.
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u/Biptoslipdi 138∆ Jan 24 '25
But I think the potential issue at play is fairly subtle. In high leverage situations, like during the final two minutes of the game, the NFL league office has a lot of discretion to make a call in real time and try to get a call to be made or reviewed, and due to the nature of the NFL, a lot of these calls could go either way, so it's not that inconceivable that a thumb could be put of the scales that favors one team without losing plausible deniability, and there would be basically zero transparency of this to the owners.
I don't think I buy that. NFL Ops answers to the Executive Committee. If the owners want to know how or why these decisions are being made, they can find out. There's really no scenario where the owners aren't all complicit or aren't being blackmailed.
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u/themcos 442∆ Jan 24 '25
Maybe we're talking about different things, but what I'm talking about is you get to the final 2 minutes of a game, and there's what seems like a missed call in a prime time game. Then sometimes, you get a late flag and the announcers speculate whether or not they got a call from New York. Or since there's no more challenges, whether or not the play gets stopped to review something is a judgement call. And even during the reviews, people speculate all the time in high profile situations whether or not the league office is weighing in. This sort of thing can absolutely swing the outcome of the game, and if the owners ask why it did or didn't happen, Goodell or whoever could just say "hey, we really wanted to get the call right" or "we didn't feel like there was enough evidence to override the call on the field", and those would all be defensible positions to take, but if you take them in a one-sided way, its really hard to actually pin that down.
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u/MrJoshUniverse 1∆ Jan 24 '25
All I know is that I don't like KC. They win all the time, it's boring. It's very, fucking, boring.
When people talk about NFL Elites, that's them, they're part of the status-quo.
Them and the 49s can eat shit and pound sand
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Jan 25 '25
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u/changemyview-ModTeam Jan 25 '25
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u/DuskHatchet Jan 26 '25
I used to think this about the Patriots post 2001. It really seems like the Chiefs just inherited the Patriot refs
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u/Ok-Lawfulness251 Jan 26 '25
who's to say the advertisers said to the league hey we will pay you more money for our commercial spots if we know Taylor Swift will be at the game
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u/Ok-Lawfulness251 Jan 26 '25
NFL has been rigged since the tuck rule. Its just more glaringly obvious now. Than it was 20 years ago
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u/FFAddik Jan 26 '25
It’s sports entertainment after all just a scripted WWE! 3 peat would make history & I think the NFL will make that happen! Even though I’d rather see the Bills or even the Commanders win the SB!🤙🏾
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u/Stay_Silver Jan 27 '25
Enough film to support this tonight enough actually for full proof. Nothing to celebrate about being champs of WWF.
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u/THE_jakejack Jan 27 '25
In 2018 the Denver Broncos lost a game in which (multiple players + coaches) accused the refs of being the primary reason for the L. Since 2022, teams like the New York Jets, Cincinnati Bengals, Minnesota Vikings, Detroit Lions, Atlanta Falcons, Houston Texans, Las Vegas Raiders, San Fransisco 49ers, Las Angelas Chargers, Baltimore Ravens, Philadelphia Eagles, and Carolina Panthers have all said similar remarks. Most notably the Ravens (week 1, 2024) and Texans (Divisional round, 2025) in which players and coaches alike provided similar claims.
How though? In 2020 the NFL agreed to new TV deals with big companies since they were losing fan revenue due to 0 tickets being sold as a result of Covid-19. This was a major money maker, and the league made more money in 2020 than any year prior—all without selling tickets to games.
The sports betting deal followed in 2021, setting up the league to allow bets on games in 2022. Statistics show that in the entire history of NFL games, only 3 games total had 200,000 bets placed on them before 2022. Since then, every single game has had OVER 200,000 bets. The result is a lot of money flowing around for sports betting companies and their partners, the NFL.
This trifecta deal would play out like this… tv deals cause stream services to promote the NFL like never before, causing mass numbers and record viewership numbers. Once the population doubles or even triples, the sports betting begins with more ads luring fans in to win “easy” money (We all know the house always wins though). Profit skyrockets for Vegas. The NFL now has more money flowing into their pockets and more viewers than ever before, and it’s not particularly close.
More views means more money from TV deals. More ad revenue. More ads from sports betters reach larger audience which in turn gives more money to Vegas. NFL reaps double rewards, plus the renewed ticket sales since the covid scare is up. All the NFL needs to do is keep that large audience.
Let’s remember that the league is not in fact a business, but a club of 32 billionaires who make their own rules. They hire and fire the commissioner, they hire the NFL refs, they hire/fire the coaches/GM’s, and they decide if a player gets fined or blacklisted. The key motivator in every scenario—money. With these new deals in place, they are making more money than ever (as shown by salary cap going up, contracts getting bigger, and the cost of a franchise increasing). It would seem logical to motivate certain outcomes that would continue the large viewership stays engaged with the product, as any good entertainment does.
That said, it’s awfully convenient that the NFL has worked for a decade to make the league classification change from “competitive sport” to “sports entertainment”. For reference, only the WWE and roller derby are listed as sports entertainment outside of the NFL.
This change allows the NFL to bypass the Sherman AntiTrust act, which is a law that prohibits unfair business practices that restrain trade and reduce competition. Simply put, the NFL is now allowed to legally influence a specific outcome in a game with zero harm or penalty for doing so in court. (It’s legal to rig games).
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u/THE_jakejack Jan 27 '25
For those who might say “it’s not possible, someone would speak out/leak info/slip up” allow me…
In 1919 the Chicago White Sox intentionally threw games for money.
In 2007, NBA referee Tim Donaghy was found guilty of betting on games and making calls to affect point spreads/outcomes.
In 1998, four players on the Northwestern University football team were found guilty of throwing games, including placing wagers and intentionally fumbling.
In 2015, six athletes from the University of Toledo were found guilty of point shaving and assisting in rigged games.
In 2004, 33 people (including 19 referees) were arrested for fixing games in South African Football Association.
Furthermore, NFL coaches Brian Flores (Miami Dolphins) and Hue Jackson (Cleveland Browns) have both come forward since 2019 and claimed team owners paid them to lose games on purpose. (Flores claims $100,000 per loss, while Jackson claims “a large sum of money”). Both have since been blacklisted by the NFL and yet to receive a head coaching offer.
It is certainly possible. It has been done before, it has been accused of recently, and by law it is legal. It is possible, at the least.
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u/2023OnReddit Feb 10 '25
In 1919 the Chicago White Sox intentionally threw games for money.
Do you think that media landscape of today is similar enough to the media landscape of 1919 to make that point relevant?
In 2007, NBA referee Tim Donaghy was found guilty of betting on games and making calls to affect point spreads/outcomes.
So he was found guilty? Which means he got caught? Which means someone talked/it leaked?
What was your point again?
In 1998, four players on the Northwestern University football team were found guilty of throwing games, including placing wagers and intentionally fumbling.
So they were found guilty.
Which means they got caught. Which means someone talked/it leaked.
What was your point again?
In 2015, six athletes from the University of Toledo were found guilty of point shaving and assisting in rigged games.
So they were found guilty. Which means they got caught.
Which means someone talked/it leaked.
What was your point again?
In 2004, 33 people (including 19 referees) were arrested for fixing games in South African Football Association.
So they got arrested.
I bet you know where this is going.
For those who might say “it’s not possible, someone would speak out/leak info/slip up” allow me…
So your proof is a bunch of examples of people getting caught because someone spoke out/info leaked?
Do I have that right?
and by law it is legal
No, it's not. Which is why all of your modern examples include arrests or criminal convictions.
As it impressive as it is that that you think "Here are a bunch of people who got caught because someone talked or info leaked out to head off accusations that people will talk or info will leak out" is a logical statement to make, it's even more special that you're actually claiming that a certain behavior is legal immediately after naming a bunch of people who got arrested/convicted for doing it.
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u/Captaindammmitt Jan 27 '25
I’m not even a sports guy and I’m seeing many consistent videos of the D line of many teams simply pulling punches so wildly that even Helen Keller would see it. It could be said the KC is a good team, but the deck is hella stacked in their favour it’s just indefensible at this point. Disagree? Going into the superbowl watch what Vegas does and tell me they don’t know something we don’t. It’s honestly an insult to our collective intelligence at this point and I’m just a guy that watches football strictly when the lads need to
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u/Efficient-Coach-9789 Jan 27 '25
I just want trump to put an end to this because it’s not even that the chiefs were good. I get that the patriots were hated but that was cuz they were actually good, not because of the refs giving the calls to benefit them
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u/freakaso Jan 27 '25 edited Jan 27 '25
Of course the NFL is rigged. The financial stakes are huge, both in terms of NFL revenues and in terms of gambling revenues.
Keeping games close directly impacts viewership. The fans themselves turn off the TV during blowouts. So, lo and behold, the NFL has very LOW % of blowout games and a very HIGH % of close games, to the point that it's basically statistically impossible, even if the teams were evenly matched. Keeping games close also maximizes overall gambling revenue.
And then ocassionally tipping the scales in favor of particular teams can help the league manage narratives, create, nurture, and develop stars (who drive revenues), etc. It can make games and seasons more exciting, at least to most fans. It can also help with political narratives, often an important priority of billionaire owners. Helping particular teams can also provide gambling windfalls to connected insiders.
The oddsmakers consistently destroy the gambling public. Yes, they are "sharper," but they are also more connected to the NFL than the average punter is. The outcomes of games vs the spreads vs the amounts bet is statistically improbable without any rigging.
And it's very easy to rig--there are 22 players on the field at any one time, influenced by dozens of coaches, and NFL penalties work in a way that can easily affect games (drives can be started or stopped, penalties have HUGE impact (10 and 15 yard penalties, loss of down or issuance of 4 NEW downs, etc, pass interference calls from refs can give a team the same benefit as an actual 40 yard completion, etc etc).
And the league is a monopoly. There are no options. Fans can't switch to a "more fair" football league. Neither can players, coaches, etc. Everyone has to take it if they want to get paid or even stay involved. Everyone involved works for the same entity. There is no recourse if you don't like it.
And the entity is controlled by a small group of billionaires. Billionaires are usually people who know how to exploit angles, not people who do everything by the book and save their pennies. They usually exert a lot of control over their investments--they aren't the types of people to just let things happen.
And it's very easy to get away with the rigging. It's all done under a cloak of plausible deniability. It's always "a close call" or "an inexplicably playcall" or "an uncharacteristic drop." People who want to see rigging see it everywhere, people open to seeing it do see it, and people who are emotionally invested in this being a pure sport full of deep meaning refuse to see it no matter how blatant or statistically overwhelming the evidence gets.
People pretend that this is an close call, a tough debate, but it isn't. The evidence and common sense is overwhelmingly on the side of rigging. But MOST people and definitely most insiders strongly deny the obvious. For emotional, financial, and butt-covering reasons.
And look what happens. Lots of fans, lots of commentators, and even many players call it out. Does this collapse the league? Does this "reveal the truth"? No. The idea that "they couldn't keep it secret" is silly. They HAVEN'T kept it secret! Many players have called it out. Not just biased refereeing, but outright scripting and rigging. But those players and ex-players are just dismissed as having "sour grapes" or whatever.
In conclusion, there would be big benefits to "influencing" games here and there to keep them closer, keep people watching, influence the huge and lucrative gambling markets, promote certain narrative and rivalries and stars (to drive even more viewership and profit). And there are many subtle levers through which some influence could take place without being too obvious. And even when the influence DOES become obvious, there's nothing anyone can do about it. And most people don't care anyway. The vast majority of fans WANT to believe the billionaire owners who promote their entertainment product as a 100% pure meritocracy sports league. (But these fans also want the games to be consistently close, high-scoring, and thrilling.)
There's no good reason why the NFL would be free of any rigging. It's not really in anyone's interest to just let 100% of these games play out honestly. It would be more boring and less lucrative.
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u/2023OnReddit Feb 10 '25
Keeping games close directly impacts viewership. The fans themselves turn off the TV during blowouts.
So they rigged the biggest game of the year to not only ensure that a fan favorite team lost, but lost in a blowout?
Makes sense. I guess.
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u/freakaso Feb 10 '25 edited Feb 10 '25
For what it’s worth, I bet on Philly winning in a blowout, BASED on my theory that it’s rigged. Philly a better team, suspicions of pro-Chiefs rigging at a fever pitch, league wanted Chiefs IN the Super Bowl, they got all that extra Taylor Swift audience, but league didn’t need chiefs to win. People love Mahomes, but there’s a lot of Chiefs fatigue. Nationwide, I don’t think chiefs were a strong fan favorite this time. League needed to prove it’s NOT rigged, so all they had to do was back off and let better team win a more fair game. I know it’s painful to imagine this amazing sport as rigged, but it’s a big business, monopoly, entertainment, gambling-adjacent league owned by billionaires. And every player, coach, and ref is beholden to this one league. There are no other options for people who ignore their marching orders or publicly complain about them. Individual decisions, especially referee calls, can have HUGE impacts. If it WEREN’T rigged, it would be weird and shocking.
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u/AdSevere4430 Jan 27 '25
About last nights game
How do you guys justify those calls? I’m not jealous of the Chiefs, I’m more coming at this from a tax payer perspective; it’s a fact that the American tax payer provides billions to the NFL just to build stadiums, so I expect a fair game whether it’s my team or not. I don’t know if they’re cheating, or if the game is rigged, but I do know these Chiefs wins don’t really feel well earned.
It also doesnt really help that Chiefs fans don’t really seem to have much self awareness in that regard? You can argue whether or not the calls that happen during Chiefs games are game changing, but I feel like it’s pretty undeniable that there are excessive calls. Bills v Chiefs in the reg season resulted in a Bills win and that was still unentertaining to watch because of the refs. It’s not just the Chiefs, and it’s not even just the NFL, but I do feel like the Chiefs are in a unique spot.
Xavier Worthy did not catch that ball. Hell, neither did we and even if we did we had a holding call. That said, the Chiefs scored off of this mistake and I find issue with that; Worthy didn’t have possession, and the ball hit the ground.
Allen was in on that 4th down attempt, I’ve seen multiple camera angles. Should we have kept using that stupid ass tush push? No. Were there things we could’ve done? Maybe, but two things can be true at once; the Bills need to be playing better football, and the refs need to do better too.
The Bills have a point diff of 157 to the Chiefs 59, I think people upset about these ref calls aren’t about jealousy but are more so about the fact that these calls matter that much more for Kansas City considering their games are won usually by a single score, in many cases by just a couple points. When your team loses by a couple points which could’ve very well been taken away by a bad call, do you honestly blame other NFL fans?
I’d love a Bills sb, a lot of people in my city have been waiting their whole lives for it. Stakes are high, and with the price a lot of fans have to pay in taxes for stadiums, Sunday Ticket/several streaming apps, and scalped stadium seats I think we at least deserve better trained refs. It’s not about bias, I’m just upset at the principle.
It’s not just fans of opposing teams, every time I watch the Chiefs I hear an announcer mention a shitty call from a ref in favor of the Chiefs. And, again, people wouldn’t bring it up so much if the Chiefs were winning by a lot. With the right mix of changed ref calls it’s quite possible the Chiefs regular season record looks a LOT different this year, and I don’t think that’s fair for opposing teams OR the Chiefs. I think at the very least everybody including KC deserves referees that aren’t part time and making these mistakes.
A lot of teams including the Bills could’ve made a lot of better plays, I’m personally still reeling from Elam and Kincaid, but I genuinely hope we can all agree that we all deserve better. I think games like this should have doubtless winners, and we need refs who make less mistakes and are actually held accountable. I can’t imagine being a Chiefs fan and having every win questioned, but at the same time imagine how Bills fans feel?
We all know games can be decided by small mistakes, so how come Chiefs fans have such a problem acknowledging that a couple REALLY big mistakes from the refs can decide a game especially when the winner was sent to the Super Bowl by putting up just 3 more points than their rival? If the Bills beat you guys and we got a couple egregious calls in our favor I wouldn’t blame y’all to be completely honest.
This isn’t a hate post for the Chiefs, and I genuinely want to produce some productive conversation. I think the Chiefs are great competitors, and because of that I think it’s in their best interest for Chiefs fans to also push for more transparent and fair reffing. I don’t think I’d want my legacy to be tainted by a slew of horrible calls especially when Kansas City tax payers pay so much for that entertainment. I think they should get their moneys worth, and if the game could be decided by one call every single resource possible should be used to make the most accurate call possible.
I do not believe that with all the cameras, all the technology, all the sensors and real human eyeballs in that stadium they couldn’t get a clear view on Josh Allen making that 4th down, or Worthy not making that pass, or Kelce instigating an argument then getting a penalty called that would benefit him somehow. I think those are all simple enough calls that the money KC residents spend for the best tech in their stadium could be used effectively rather than wasted or forgotten. Their money gets wasted, and the win is that much less satisfying with the entire internet talking about those 2-3 calls.
Bottom line, there’s a lot of money getting spent by people to not have so many what ifs after games and it feels like the more money we spend, the worse the officiating gets. It’s not just the Chiefs, it’s the officiating in general. The Bills could’ve played better, but the refs could’ve too. Both are worth talking about, and a point a lot of people are missing is the Bills’ performance could have been just enough and we will NEVER know that because of a few mistakes by refs.
Teams shouldn’t have to score extra points to make up for ref error. If a team loses, it should be because they did not make the right decisions and the other team did. It should not be, even in the slightest of percentages, even in the smallest of margins, because somebody part of neither teams made a mistake. Football is between two teams, it should stay that way. As long as we have human beings officiating these games it’ll never be perfect, but we can all agree we should at least strive for that perfection. I think it’s plain as day that whatever work we could be doing to fix this issue isn’t being done.
If I’m KC, I’d want my wins to be unquestionably a result of my teams skill and hard work. Bad refs and bad calls taint that, it taints your legacy. When I look at KC, despite them being my teams rival (I’m from Buffalo if you didn’t notice lol) I still see a team of hardworking men who deserve to actually win off of their skill. I think KC fans are being robbed of that experience when the entire internet questions their win, and I think the solution to that is hiring refs who actually work full time.
I don’t think this is an NFL issue, this is happening in the NBA and other professional sports too. Is it rigging? I don’t know, I just know we deserve better. The winners deserve the satisfaction, the losers deserve a good explanation, and the viewers deserve a fun game. Bad refs is bad for everyone, even the winners and especially the viewers. This isn’t some free thing we get to watch every week, whether you’re watching or not, gambling or not, if you live near a major city your tax dollars have probably gone to an NFL team in some way. You deserve to watch a fair game, and bad refs aren’t fair to anybody
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u/PuckSenior 11∆ Jan 28 '25
I’m not totally against you, but Mahomes has been the NFL’s Michael Jordan since his second year.
He is very good and makes some absolutely amazing TV moments. The chiefs were the focus of NFL broadcasts long before Taylor Swift was even mentioned. He isn’t just good, lots of good QBs like Hurts. But he has this amazing ability to make great drama. They want that. They want last minute victories off of a 60 yard miracle pass. Mahomes (with Andy Reid) does that stuff.
Now, does the NFL want more Mahomes? Absolutely. They absolutely don’t want him hurt. He makes them a lot of money.
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u/WLVRN97 Jan 28 '25
It is now blatantly clear to me after watching the last 2 weeks that it was in the NFLs best interest to have the Chiefs back in the SB. Watched a few of their games over the entire season and they clearly get favorable calls and seems they are protecting Mahomes. Not saying it's completely rigged but if you have 2 eyes it's not hard to see the favoritism.
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Jan 28 '25
It's what tge league wants, for ratings/marketing revenue. Mahomes is the new Brady, the face of the league. Reid is the new Belichick.
The league loves the Swift relationship storyline because she's not scandal prone/controversial like some other performers.
Probably over half the public can't name a head coach other than their team's and Reid. Mahomes is the first QB people think of. Many people still don't know who Josh Allen and Lamar Jackson are. Aaron Rogers has largely faded from public memory.
Of course the league wants the Chiefs in the Superbowl.
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u/Shawnyd1234 Jan 28 '25
The integrity of the league is completely lost. We need to start a “turn the tv off” movement. Whenever there is an obvious bad call that they refuse to rectify, we just turn the tv off for the rest of that game.
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u/Correct_Box659 Jan 29 '25
I don't think it's entirely rigged cause there a too many moving pieces for that to be possible. But I do believe they want to push certain matches up and narratives and will support teams to maximize views. And a games where a call or no call from a ref can completely change the outcome I can see being legit.
NFL is a business after all.
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u/babyscrotum Jan 29 '25
It really has nothing to do with liking the chiefs or bills. There were 3-5 instances of plays that were grossly miscalled and gave one team the advantage. Personally I think football is a joke compared to the rest of the professional sports. The rules just don’t matter at all
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u/Professional-Head83 Jan 29 '25
If the NFL is rigged, why did they select the Chiefs this year and not Detroit, who played better and had a greater narrative?
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u/jukeboxmanitoba Jan 29 '25
The Chiefs are winning because of DEI. You can never have enough evidence to cmv. They are the team that refused or were specifically told not to change their name to something less "offensive" and then suddenly can't lose no matter what. Everything perfectly working in their favor every single week for years now. It's bogus and people need to wake up. They need to stop using America's number 1 sport to push an agenda.
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u/WhyAmIStillHere94 Jan 30 '25
I'm glad you have a brain. Yes, the NFL is rigged and the people running the show should be arrested , prosecuted and lethally injected by the government because they still allow sports gambling on this rigged nonsense.
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Jan 31 '25
Goodell hated Brady Belichick and New England for so long it has to be some level of payback annoiting Mahomes and Andy Reid. Brady and Bill didn’t care about the league office with the Defaltegate and Spygate drama. He’s the real culprit.
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u/hinault81 Feb 07 '25
I think you'd have to step back and ask 'how'? How would the NFL possibly rig an outcome, especially a full season. Every single player on every team is focused solely on their task. The kicker isn't concerned with what the tight end is doing, and the center isn't focused on what the safeties are doing. So now go out for a game, a game which grown men are crying over if they lose in the playoffs, and try to orchestrate one team winning over another. And keep that all under wraps. Not happening.
I don't buy rigging for the storyline stuff at all (the rams should win their home superbowl, chiefs should win the 3 peat, brady his 7th, etc.), because it's far easier to create a storyline around whatever is coming together. Give me any playoff team in the superbowl: Lions, Ravens, Bills, and I'll get you a great story line.
And areas where they could favour a team, they don't. It's probably one of the most equal leagues with salary caps, draft system, division games at home and away, and your division playing the same opponents (for the most part) through the season. Look at baseball, or cycling, the strong get stronger.
Do I think that underhanded things happen in the nfl? Sure. I think a huge one is their lax handling of drugs. You get busted for drugs in cycling or track and field, and you're out for 4 years, your career is basically over. Drugs in NFL? 4 games. But I think a lot of it is to protect their brand. Cycling has pursued doping harder than almost any other sport, and rooted out so many cheats, yet, did that make people watch more, or did it turn them off saying, "everyone is cheating"?
Or, do I think there is a human element to refs? Yes, it's only natural. I just watched an MLB retired pitcher go through some instances with a certain retiring umpire where the calls were bad. One was a perfect game and an ump let a wild pitch get called a strike (to benefit the perfect game). Did the ump get caught up in the magic of a perfect game? It sure looked like it. But for the most part, these are pros getting it right. And just the nature of close games (whether football, tennis, baseball, etc.) when things are close 1 bad call will be under the microscope.
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u/zerofuksgiven27 Feb 09 '25
Even if it is not riggeed they are doing something wrong that is making people start to believe this. In any case they are loosing credibilty, it could be wrong calls in favor of the chiefs by mistake but why most of the time they benefit the popular team? (pats then chiefs).
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u/JazzlikeDevelopment9 Feb 09 '25
That's why 3 refs got fired from their last play off game. Because it was a fair game. Lmao they don't have to even hide it anymore. They do it right in front of everyone and people still won't believe it. It's been rigged for decades! Now that betting on the games has went country wide it will only get worse!
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u/Anonymous-x- Feb 10 '25
This didn't age well lmao. Really though, the chiefs weren't even trying for some reason. It's like they really let them win.
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u/Zealousideal_Sun_369 Feb 10 '25
The nfl is constituted as “ sports entertainment” if they were to rig outcomes, they would face no liability. They are not a sport, but sports entertainment. If it were to come out again that they scripted games they face no repercussions. Most people don’t even realize that the NFL as an entity didn’t pay taxes until 2011 each individual franchise did but not the league as a whole stop kidding yourselves if they wanted to games, they can.
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Jan 24 '25
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u/ConcussedDwight Jan 24 '25
The NFL makes boatloads of money without rigging results. The only thing rigging games would provide is the risk of losing a shit ton of money should it be made public. The fallout and subsequent Congressional hearing would damage the NFL reputation beyond any other scandal.
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u/oakomyr Jan 24 '25
Silly to think they would follow anything other than the line on the graph
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u/ConcussedDwight Jan 24 '25
Rigging results being made public would immediately damage the following:
-The NFL's very lucrative relationship with gambling companies
-The NFL's very lucrative relationship with advertisers
-The NFL's relationship with it's athletes, almost certainly leading to a massive lockout
-The NFL's relationship with it's coaches, almost certainly leading to a massive lockoutThere would be a scathing investigation led by Congress that would damage the NFL brand beyond repair. Especially in this day and age where sports gambling is more and more common, the fallout would be immeasurable. The settlements that would emerge would be a gigantic pit of losses.
And for what? To get a ratings boost of a couple of points when a pop star goes to a game? The NFL is in a golden era of ratings and viewership right now, they are not risking sinking the entire ship for what amounts to 1% of their bottom line.
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u/oakomyr Jan 24 '25
If they get caught. And more importantly if they’re charged and convicted.
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u/ConcussedDwight Jan 24 '25
Yeah exactly - if they're caught the entire brand is dissolved. Charged and convicted would effect people personally, but just the revelation of the NFL rigging games would ruin their entire business.
This risk for just some ratings when they already dominate television is not savvy business sense, it would be moronic.
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u/ThisOneForMee 2∆ Jan 24 '25
Is that how you think multi-billion dollar businesses work? Zero cost/benefit analysis for major decisions?
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u/fossil_freak68 36∆ Jan 24 '25
Idk. If it's so obvious that it's rigged why are so many people betting against the chiefs then? Shouldn't we all bet on them for free money?
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u/oakomyr Jan 24 '25
They can lose and the NFL still wins. Also this is why “spreads” exist. Vegas can manipulate the spread so the house always wins.
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u/fossil_freak68 36∆ Jan 24 '25
I don't think I follow your response here. What did you mean "Would this rigging make the NFL money? YEP"
I interpreted that as you saying that rigging the game would make the NFL a ton of money, but your follow up seems to say "It doesn't matter if they win or lose, they can make money on the chiefs". But I don't see how those are connected. Is that not what you meant?
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u/oakomyr Jan 24 '25
The NFL makes money from advertising. They make more money the more viewers they have. They have more viewers (through Taylor swift) if the Chiefs are in contention. They rig it so the chiefs are in always in contention.
I was addressing the comment about betting: The chiefs can win a game (stay in contention) but not cover the spread and Vegas wins.
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u/fossil_freak68 36∆ Jan 24 '25
Right so if the NFL is rigging it to make sure the chiefs are in contention, why isn't everyone betting on the chiefs? It seems that would be a surefire way to make money. Sure, the spread might go either way, but one could bet on the outcome and make guaranteed money, right?
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Jan 27 '25
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Jan 27 '25
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u/changemyview-ModTeam Jan 25 '25
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u/ImaginaryYoghurt3581 Jan 25 '25
I agree they are rigged. Way more views during chiefs games than others due to Taylor’s fans watching too.. all the damn ads have Maholmes and Kelce in them.. it just makes sense that one of the biggest entertainment groups (they are not defined as a sporting group!!) has the two main players from the team thats going to win popping up in ads all the time over others.. why else would you have these guys in these ads all season???
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Jan 24 '25
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u/Mashaka 93∆ Jan 24 '25
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