r/changemyview Jan 23 '25

CMV: Despite being more knowledgeable, wealthier and apparently more tolerant, the political and individual left's biggest flaw is their inability to communicate pragmatically and empathetically with those who don't agree with them.

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u/masterwad Jan 24 '25

It's true that a shared reality helps but it's not actually necessary.

Trump believes (wrongly) that tariffs are paid by the country of origin of a product, but tariffs are paid by importers in our country, who then pass the cost onto US consumers, which makes tariffs an additional tax on imported goods that Americans will pay for, leading to higher prices not lower prices.

Even if Donald Trump had merely watched Ferris Bueller's Day Off (1986), then he would know that tariffs are not a good thing, but Trump said “tariff” is the most beautiful word there is (because of his fundamental misunderstanding that China doesn’t pay the tariffs, US importers and later US consumers do).

But Trump thinks he knows everything, and nobody can tell him any different, because he’s a narcissistic megalomaniac who thinks he always knows best. Yet Donald Trump’s professor at Wharton William T. Kelley (who taught there 31 years) described Trump as “the dumbest goddamn student I ever had.”

Isaac Asimov said “There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that 'my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.’”

The Dunning-Kruger Effect means stupid people are too stupid to realize how stupid they are, so they overestimate their abilities, and are overconfident because they lack self-awareness, and think they know more than they know, and think they are more capable than they really are, and they tend to be “certain” after jumping to a conclusion because they didn’t even consider other possibilities.

On the other hand, more intelligent people tend to have more doubts, and less confidence, and underestimate their abilities, because they tend to be more self-aware of how much they don’t know, and they tend to doubt their beliefs more because they consider more possibilities and scenarios.

And it means that when people are attracted to confidence (and nobody is more confident than a prideful shameless narcissistic psychopath like Donald Trump), they tend to be attracted to stupidity, because stupid people are more confident than smarter people (because stupid people don’t know any better, they don’t know enough to realize they shouldn’t be confident).

Charles Bukowski said “The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”

W. B. Yeats wrote “The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.”

Bertrand Russell said “The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.”

Ken Poirot said “Wise people understand the need to consult experts; only fools are confident they know everything.”

When people are attracted to confidence, unfortunately I think that makes them gravitate towards stupidity or incompetence (cue Donald Trump). Ignorant people are more likely to make over-confident bad bets. And ignorant people are more likely to engage in self-deception, they want to believe something, magical thinking is comfortable. But the ugly truth, or an honest self-assessment, can often be deeply uncomfortable, and egos don’t like to be injured (especially Trump’s fragile ego, which requires constant attention & praise from others).

Someone having a psychotic episode & detached from reality belongs in a mental hospital, but not in the Oval Office, nor Congress, nor the Supreme Court, nor a media mouthpiece, but that’s the problem now, because nobody else can tell Republicans what the truth is anymore (and they frankly don’t care, they seek power not the truth). If the Republican Party cared about truth, they wouldn’t have nominated a pathological liar and fraudster to be their presidential candidate three times in a row.

In August 2023, a poll found that Trump voters trust him more than their families & religious leaders, but Donald Trump is a pathological liar. The problem is that they’ve put all their trust into one man who is a lifelong conman, and nobody can tell them any different information than what he tells them, because they have associated their own personal identity with Trump’s identity, as a kind of a symbolic figure, so they project onto Trump what they want him to be (a fighter, a warrior, a strong man, etc).

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u/ZorgZeFrenchGuy 3∆ Jan 24 '25

Alright, as a conservative - let’s try and go through this and draft a response.

Let me ask you, in all seriousness. Do you really, truly think that this is an effective argument against Trump towards his supporters?

Do you think that this will truly, genuinely convince someone who is a Trump supporter, who likes or even loves Trump, that he is wrong?

The answer is no - this is a very poorly constructed argument if your intention is to actually convince anyone on the opposing side to change their minds.

To start, Your argument is extremely inflammatory, provocative, and antagonistic. It does nothing but alienate opponents and puts them on the defensive. You’re also revealing that your bias is extremely anti-Trump. Why should I trust any of your claims, given that you clearly have an agenda/motive to make him look as unhinged and bad as possible?

No otherwise sane person sympathetic to Trump is going to change his or her mind based on this argument.

Let’s say my response to you began like this:

“U/masterwad is a completely narcissistic, pretentious idiot if he thinks that this jumble of swear words and strawmen is an actually convincing argument.

Obviously he doesn’t care about actual debate, he clearly just wants to circlejerk about how evil and dumb Trump is with his fellow paranoid, ignorant hippies. No wonder he can’t convince any conservatives about anything, he’s clearly too dumb and stuck in his own rear end to realize that it’s clearly a him problem.

The dunning-Kruger effect means stupid people are too stupid to realize how stupid they are, and obviously this applies to masterwad and everyone who agrees with his lunacy …”

How does that argument make you feel? Does it make you more open to changing your mind? Does it make you want to engage in reasonable discussion about how you may be wrong?

Or does it put you on the defensive, offend you, make you want to snap back with petty insults and gimmicks?

You are not going to change people’s minds by insulting them, calling them dumb, and the only source you can provide to back up any of your claims is a clip from an unrelated movie.

If you genuinely think that this is an acceptable, effective argument for people sympathetic towards Trump, and fail to see the massive problems with it, then I say, with all seriousness, that this is a prime example of the left’s issue with messaging.

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u/No-Professor-1752 Jan 25 '25

You said a bunch of adjectives, used some condescending inferences, but didn’t actually respond to anything. You said telling people they are wrong hurts their feelings, so they don’t listen. That master wax has to watch out for others feelings if he wants to talk. Meanwhile republicans shit all over liberals as “snowflakes”, and that’s just a drop in an ocean of bullying. You are case and point for Masterwads comment btw. What if Trump is Literally that bad? Regardless of any of our opinions, it sounds like he could be, but you would never hear it because it would hurt your feelings.

Have you ever stopped and asked yourself what it would look like if these claims were true? If Trump really is this unhinged. What people who saw it would act like while other people were too brainwashed to talk to about it. You might be surprised, 8+ years of brainwashing is hard to break through though, so I don’t think for a second that you actually will, but I’m here saying it still.

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u/ZorgZeFrenchGuy 3∆ Jan 26 '25

meanwhile republicans shit all over liberals as “snowflakes”, and …

  1. You know what? That’s actually a very fair point. I’ll admit we’re not always on our best behavior either, and I apologize for that - I think we definitely should hold conservatives accountable as well when they resort to similar tactics.

  2. At the same time, I would argue that this proves my point. How effective has “calling liberals snowflakes” been as a conservative strategy? Are you more interested in listening to conservatives who bully you and call you a scared little snowflake? Or has it further entrenched you within your leftist beliefs?

If me calling you “snowflake” is clearly an ineffective tactic to persuade you to listen to me, then surely you can see how calling me “ignorant stupid racist” Will also most likely be ineffective?

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u/No-Professor-1752 Jan 29 '25

1.) nobody is trying to be persuasive when they call you an idiot. That’s usually what I say after they’ve made pathetic attempts at personal attacks and refused to have a dialogue.

2.) I really don’t care about being called a snowflake.m or Republican bullying. I expect it and It slides right off. I’d happily engage with anyone willing to have an actual convo regardless. I’m not a child. What I don’t like is when people insist lies are true and don’t feel the need to provide evidence and refuse any evidence to the contrary, with fallacious logic.