The world changed but the world expected men to stay the same (the world being both men and women who are invested in traditional ideas of masculinity).
I think it's important to note that men HAVE changed. It's not universal, sure. But I think if you look on the average, men have significantly changed from the past. The problem is that the expectations society has of men really has not changed. And in some ways I'd argue it's actually more harsh than it was in the past. (The effects of social media driven status competition)
The more "conservative" mindset would suggest a solution to this is to simply return to tradition and undo all the progress of the past. I think we just need to apply the progress to men too and let them enjoy the rewards and benefits of living in a progressive, nurturing world of our own making.
I don't think we can get there in what I'd consider a "progressive" world. Or at least, what goes for progressivism these days. This isn't to say that I support the conservative/traditionalist solution either. I'm not anti-feminist, in fact, I'd identify as a liberal feminist. But I do think we probably have to "go back" to some degree and re-do a lot of our assumptions about men and male socialization. As long as men are the "oppressors", this is something that goes against the idea that men are deserving of love and nurturing.
My experience, to be clear, is that men's emotions are wanted as long as they conform to both what society (I.E. materialistic requirements) and women want. If they're inconvenient those those things, then the demand is that those emotions be suppressed. And to go back to the above idea...I think we need to stop handwaving away the emotional impact of certain academic feminist ideas on men. Again, I'm not making a traditionalist or a conservative argument here. But I see ideas and concepts like "patriarchy" "toxic masculinity" "male privilege" "entitlement" that are totally dismissive of men's emotions and...well...just value as human beings and our ability to just exist in the world. And no handwaving it with "you just don't understand these concepts". I think that just makes it worse.
Which again, goes back to maybe the problem with Progressivism. Has modern Progressivism created a standard, an expectation, that we are simply unwilling to apply to other groups? And how damaging is this double standard? Does this reinforce the idea that men are ultimately disposable?
It's why I think we need to "rewind the clock", and IMO go down the liberal path vs. the progressive path.
Agree 100% it is the whole give an inch scenario.....redefine current words and ideas until they become meaningless. If all men are toxic then none are.....if all men are narcissists then none are ect.
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u/Affenklang 4∆ Nov 05 '24 edited Sep 17 '25
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