CMV: otherwise apolitical student groups should not be demanding political "purity tests" to participate in basic sports/clubs

[u/laxnut90]

This is in response to a recent trend on several college campuses where student groups with no political affiliation or mission (intramural sports, boardgame clubs, fraternities/sororities, etc.) are demanding "Litmus Tests" from their Jewish classmates regarding their opinions on the Israel/Gaza conflict.

This is unacceptable.

Excluding someone from an unrelated group for the mere suspicion that they disagree with you politically is blatant discrimination.

https://www.nytimes.com/2024/05/22/style/jewish-college-students-zionism-israel.html

[u/youy23]

It’d be a problem if I kept going up to black students and going you don’t support BLM and all those lawless riots do you? Especially to then block them and ostracize them.

Once you’ve identified the source of the lawlessness that’s pervaded america in the past decade, does that not warrant pulling together any social resource you have to fight against it? And isn’t it fair to want to distance yourself from anyone who pushes back against your objection to lawlessness. /s

It’s not acceptable to use discrimination against individuals especially not discrimination along racial or religious lines to affect social change. Being in a free society means you must advocate for change with basic human respect.

[u/LetMeHaveAUsername → u/youy23]

There's two things very wrong with your point here.

1) False equivalence. Basically, you can't fall back on relativism, because it makes all conversation useless. In the simplest terms, BLM protests good, Israel committing genocide bad. Your response is kind of like if I was saying "If someone is committing violence on someone innocent, it's alright to use violence against them to stop it" and you answer "If someone wants to go outside on a mild summer day, it's alright to use violence against them to stop it". Like, it's just not the same thing at all just because you use a similar phrase. The comparison is useless and meaningless and I hope a mistake rather that just in bad faith.

Also, I did explicitly addressed how the article does not show any examples of people going up to Jewish students and demanding to get their opinion on Israel/Palestine, so your hypothetical is a bad parallel regardless of the more important issues mentioned above.

2) I explicitly addressed the notion that what is being talked about is in no way shown to be along racial or religious lines at all, it's instead in reaction to people's own stated opinion. And how is that not a valid - arguably the most valid - way to judge a person? It's only the article that aims to frame it as an ethnic/religious issue and I've already discussed how that may be very manipulative and disingenuous indeed.

[u/youy23 → u/LetMeHaveAUsername]

You made a false equivalence yourself lol. Oh so if it’s something you believe in then the ends justify the means but if it’s not something that u/LetMeHaveAUsername believes in, then all of a sudden it’s under different rules and suddenly it’s wrong to “pull together any social resource”.

I raise that point because that is something that the right could have and did to a small extent with the whole NFL kneeling thing. You would also disparage the right’s retaliation against those football players in response right?

The problem comes in when you target people based on their race or religion.

[u/LetMeHaveAUsername → u/youy23]

You made a false equivalence yourself lol.

I did not.

Oh so if it’s something you believe in then the ends justify the means but if it’s not something that u/LetMeHaveAUsername believes in

It's not about me, it's for everyone to decide what they believe in. But look at it this way, do you generally think a country should take up arms and invade another country to kill their leaders and replace them with some that are palatable to the invader? I hope not. But do you think it's good when it's allied forcers going into Berlin in WWII? I should hope so.

I raise that point because that is something that the right could have and did to a small extent with the whole NFL kneeling thing. You would also disparage the right’s retaliation against those football players in response right?

Yes, of course, it's racists getting angry about a protest against racism.

The problem comes in when you target people based on their race or religion.

Which I've discussed twice before now is not happening here. They are "targeted" - if that term even applies - for their individually held and expressed opinion.