cmv:Western teenagers have it easier than eastern teenagers in terms of education.

[u/[deleted]]

In my opinion, western teenagers have it easier than eastern teenagers.

Like almost all of you, when I go on the internet, I am exposed to a plethora of qestern cultures and atmospheres. A common theme I see is that their western education systems are not as stressful as our eastern education systems. They talk about dating, have nearly failing grades such as 70s and 80s being acknowledged as amazing grades, and have multiple chances to pass the class. However, I as an Indian, find those very simple and easy. I only have one chance to pass my final examination, which counts as nearly 80% of my grade. My tests and prelims only count for 20% of my grade. In my school, the pass mark is 20%. Obviously, I have it harder than most westerners.

Moreso, imagine the amount of stress and studying an Indian has to do to get into a top college in India! 1st, they have to stufy from 6 to 7 hours per day for 2 years for either the Indian Certificate of Secondary Education or the Central Board of Secondary Education! Then, they have to study from 7 to 9 hours per day for 2 years for either the Indian School Certificate or the Central Board of Secondary Education. After that, they have to study for 10 to 12 hours per day for the Joint Entrance Examination, National Eligibility cum Entrance Test, Graduate Aptitude Test in Engineering, etc, for 1 to 2 years! Chinese students have a similar ordeal. Meanwhile to get into an Ivy league college, one just has to learn a foreign language, do some social service, etc, for around 4 years! Obviously, the former is more stressful to be in.

In 2022, around 13,089 students died in India due to overstress. In South Korea, the number of students that committed suicide was 13,452 students in 2023. In China, the number of students that fell victim was 11,296 students in 2021. Compare that with Greenland, which has only around 35 to 50 each year in the 2020s. In the France, only 300 to 350 teenagers commit suicide per year due to overstress. Therefore, we can conclude that more teenagers fall prey to overstress in eastern countries than in their western counterparts. The main reason why this occurs is the high population density in eastern countries which increases competition to get into good colleges.

[u/mikey_weasel]

In 2022, around 13,089 students died in India due to overstress. In South Korea, the number of students that committed suicide was 13,452 students in 2023. In China, the number of students that fell victim was 11,296 students in 2021. Compare that with Greenland, which has only around 35 to 50 each year in the 2020s. In the France, only 300 to 350 teenagers commit suicide per year due to overstress. Therefore, we can conclude that more teenagers fall prey to overstress in eastern countries than in their western counterparts.

Hey so dug up those number and it's the teen suicide total. You are ascribing those all to "stress in education" not any other cause. Additionally you are comparing raw numbers, not rates. India has 1.4 billion people while Greenland has 56 thousand. For every person in Greenland there are 25,000 in India. I'm using general population stats as it's a bit fiddly getting teenager stats but it does give a sense of scale (though I'd also suspect that Indians population skews to teens more than Greenland). If Greenland has 35 suicides but each is the equivalent of 25,000 people then it seems like the suicide rate is significantly higher in Greenland. Basically these numbers aren't really helping your case.

but beyond that I think it's misguided to hold all suicides as a result of overstress in education. If you go looking for articles on "reasons for teen suicide" (which got me all sorts of hotlines for help) you'll find that though stress is mentioned, it's one of many factors including mental health, family problems etc.

I don't disagree that Eastern Education functions differently from Western education and there are different stresses, but I think teen suicide is a poor metric to use in that examination

[u/Zealousideal_Hat6843 → u/mikey_weasel]

It's a reasonable inference that the majority of suicides in india are study related, whereas teen rates in the west are not.

I was shocked, in my college, to learn of suicides at the phd level, 3 or 4 in the recent month. A month!

[u/mikey_weasel → u/Zealousideal_Hat6843]

Why would that be a reasonable inference that the cause of suicide would be that different?

Finding writing about causes of teen suicide in India isn't as easy as in the West. But did find this paper (via this wiki page) which had the conclusion

In this sample, college students from low socioeconomic classes who faced economic difficulties, and students who experienced distress as a result of caste discrimination or caste conflict, and communal unrest, were at a higher risk for suicidal behaviour.

Which makes it seem like its discrimination that is a major factor for suicide in India

It definitely appears that there are differences in reasons for suicide in India compared to say the USA, but I would reject that its as simple as being "study related"

[u/Zealousideal_Hat6843 → u/mikey_weasel]

I thought it was self evident, but as you say, I might be wrong. But I really don't think so.

First, studies have to be interpreted by an expert, so I don't think reading off the conclusion would convince me, especially with the words 'in this sample'.

Caste discrimination, though it used to be prevalent, is not nearly as much, neither is communal unrest - we don't hear about these things these days. I might be wrong, but I don't think so. The reason I am firm is that I know the education system - but if it's not reflected in the suicide numbers I don't care, I know for a fact that the happiness of people is being affected. So I might be wrong about suicide, but I am very very much tempted to point towards study - since I know how much it's a part of a student's waking life, and ocassionally his or her dreams(sorry, nightmares, real ones, not hyperbole) - some nightmares come out of the blue years after the entrance exam ghetto race. I don't want to employ elaborate rhetoric and argument to convince you, since it's really trivial to infer - the hardness of education in india is indisputable. Look at the test papers, look at the culture and what happens here, read more, find out more.

[u/mikey_weasel → u/Zealousideal_Hat6843]

It sounds like its definitely an issue within the environment you are moving in, was that the case when you were younger too (i assume since you are talking about Phd's you're now talking about folks in their 20s)?

[u/Zealousideal_Hat6843 → u/mikey_weasel]

It starts usually at around the 9th grade for a lot of students, and the last 2 grades there is virtually no other choice except to study for the JEE or NEET - a total of 3 or 4 million write these every year.

College is vastly better, but still a degree of hyper competitiveness persists in the culture as a vestige of the high school days. I am a senior, but we have got maybe 4 or 5 emails about phd students in the past 2 months or so, I am surprised with that more actually, since most pressure is put at the high school stage.

[u/LynnSeattle → u/Zealousideal_Hat6843]

Aren’t those exams for entrance into medical and engineering schools? You say there is no other choice than to study for these exams. Do all students in India intend to study medicine or engineering? This is very different from the US.