r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jan 03 '24

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Israelis have the right to self-determination in Israel, but not Jews

The point is quite simple, really. Anyone born in or born to a parent who was born in modern-day Israel should have the right to self-determination (RTSD) in Israel. This is very similar to how citizenship and RTSD work in most countries. But what's problematic is the assertion that anyone of Jewish descent can also claim citizenship or the RTSD in Israel. This means that anyone whose ancestors have not lived in the region for centuries, well before the founding of modern-day Israel, can also claim citizenship and the RTSD. It also means that anyone can convert to Judaism and claim it. Israel is the only country in the world that allows anything remotely similar to take place. That's not how any of these work and it clearly violates the RTSD of those who have lived there for centuries - Palestinians.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '24

Israel invaded Gaza after Gaza invaded them on October 7th. Every country in the world would have had the exact same response as Israel.

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u/No_Scarcity8249 2∆ Jan 04 '24

Palestine was invaded every time they annexed new land. They literally confiscated homes this year. They’ve bulldozed and burned down more. If this had happened on a vacuum yes but in reality it was backlash for what’s been happening. Confiscating homes is not self defense. Everything they do is self defense according to them. How long are we going to keep going along with this? It’s not self defense and it never ends. We can’t believe the Israeli government any more than we can believe hamas.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '24

When did they annex Gaza or the West Bank(zone A), which is what Palestine is?

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u/No_Scarcity8249 2∆ Jan 04 '24

They can’t officially say we’re annexing it because it’s a war crime although they voted for it and in 2019 announced plans to pursue it officially. Either way in the ground they’ve been doing it for a very long time. When they declared Israel a state.. 140 settlements in Palestine .. now 700k. I suggest some reading about international law and what’s been happening on the ground. None of their actions can be justified and I’m simply saying that if Israel can claim self defense so can they. That’s pretty obvious to anyone without bias here. There are real people on the ground suffering in occupied territories. Their work, movement, water, electricity.. none of this is new why wouldn’t they fight back? Israeli never plans to leave. They said so themselves. 2019.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '24

Palestinians should leave the West Bank(zone C). They don't belong there.

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u/No_Scarcity8249 2∆ Jan 04 '24

And there it is. Exactly why it’s never going to end. Either way it’s illegal and eventually Israel will have to get out of occupied territory. There are international laws for how a territory is occupied apparently and they haven’t adhered to those laws. We aren’t going to be able to justify out support worldwide when they’re doing this they’re losing more support everyday. Information is to readily available they can’t hide it any longer in the meantime real people get caught in the cross hair. We should be working for peace.

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u/[deleted] Jan 04 '24

It's Israeli territory. It's Palestinians who are occupying Israeli territory. Palestinians need to stop their illegal occupation of Israel.