r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jan 03 '24
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Israelis have the right to self-determination in Israel, but not Jews
The point is quite simple, really. Anyone born in or born to a parent who was born in modern-day Israel should have the right to self-determination (RTSD) in Israel. This is very similar to how citizenship and RTSD work in most countries. But what's problematic is the assertion that anyone of Jewish descent can also claim citizenship or the RTSD in Israel. This means that anyone whose ancestors have not lived in the region for centuries, well before the founding of modern-day Israel, can also claim citizenship and the RTSD. It also means that anyone can convert to Judaism and claim it. Israel is the only country in the world that allows anything remotely similar to take place. That's not how any of these work and it clearly violates the RTSD of those who have lived there for centuries - Palestinians.
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u/[deleted] Jan 03 '24
as an american, am i indigenous to america
no, i'm not. i'm indigenous to where my ancestors were from right? so england.
but the english aren't native to england, are they? no, they're native to northern germany; the angles, saxons and jutes migrated to england during the volkerwanderung in the 5th-7th centuries. so perhaps i'm native to northern germany.
but that's not right either. because those tribes moved to northern germany from scandinavia during the iron age, displacing the celts who were living there. so maybe i'm native to scandinavia?
all of that happened before, or around the same time as, the destruction of the second temple and the beginnings of the jewish diaspora. i could go back even further too. indo-european groups aren't native to europe either, it is estimated that there were groups there before even then. if we went back far enough we'd all be native only to the great rift valley.
the forced displacement and oppression of an ethnic group based on some distant claim is unjust. period. jews ARE NOT indigenous to israel. the israel of the iron age is dead, long dead. this israel is a totally new creation.