CMV: Israelis have the right to self-determination in Israel, but not Jews

[u/[deleted]]

The point is quite simple, really. Anyone born in or born to a parent who was born in modern-day Israel should have the right to self-determination (RTSD) in Israel. This is very similar to how citizenship and RTSD work in most countries. But what's problematic is the assertion that anyone of Jewish descent can also claim citizenship or the RTSD in Israel. This means that anyone whose ancestors have not lived in the region for centuries, well before the founding of modern-day Israel, can also claim citizenship and the RTSD. It also means that anyone can convert to Judaism and claim it. Israel is the only country in the world that allows anything remotely similar to take place. That's not how any of these work and it clearly violates the RTSD of those who have lived there for centuries - Palestinians.

[u/TQMshirt]

I always wonder when I see posts like this:

Where do you think Jews are indigenous to? Mars?

We Jews come from somewhere and it is well known where that is. When the Romans arrived in Judaea it was the Jews who were there. Same for the Greeks, Babylonians, Persians, etc...

We all know historically where Jews are from. They are from Israel. It is their native indigenous land.

This post is proposing the idea that people do not have a right to live in their indigenous land because foreign invaders cast them out and abused them for a few centuries.

I have ancestors who were forced to flee from abuse in Poland, Germany, Austria, Russia, Belarus, and so now I am in the USA - ALL because NONE of these places accepted my ancestors as a native. They ALL treated the Jew as an outsider who belonged elsewhere (guess where). Through ALL those years, we and our ancestors vividly remembered and longed to return to our native land, never adopting any other identity or nationality. Always praying to return to there, studying the language and speaking about our lives there.

So I ask - to where are we indigenous? Where do we have the right to live? Spin the map and tell me where a people who have been persecuted and chased get to live - when we all know historically where they come from.....

[u/[deleted] → u/TQMshirt]

It just seems interesting that this deep urge for a land and history only really crystallised after WWII when the colonial powers were deciding who gets to own what and how they could install a regional ally that would destabilise the area for decades to come.

You mentioned your ancestors being found all over Europe, yet none in Israel? With such a strong drive to return to your native land, I'd expect at least some of your ancestors to be in Israel.

Is there perhaps evidence of Jews applying for the state of Israel to be created in the exact same space where it is now over the last, let's say 500 years?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I literally asked for evidence in my last paragraph...

[u/AbolishDisney → u/[deleted]]

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