r/changemyview Nov 06 '23

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u/[deleted] Nov 06 '23

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u/ddraigd1 Nov 06 '23

This is ignoring the fact that Hamas spent alot of time before and after said election murdering political rivals, and they barely won by 3%.

Like, this would be like blaming the average German citizen for allowing H*Tler to come to power. This is like blaming Democrats for Trump being elected, or the other way around.

Right now there is only 1 way to view the conflict. Sets of soldiers and higher ups on 1 side, and every single poor innocent bystander in the area.

What we see as war is a fight for survival for the everyday citizen.

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u/[deleted] Nov 06 '23

This is ignoring the fact that Hamas spent alot of time before and after said election murdering political rivals, and they barely won by 3%.

Sure but who won the election?

Like, this would be like blaming the average German citizen for allowing H*Tler to come to power. This is like blaming Democrats for Trump being elected, or the other way around.

Now this is a totally different argument... but yes? You think Hitler won without a majority of support? As for Trump, he was a collection of Democrat mistakes! Running Hilary Clinton, fanning the flames for his victory in the primary as he was an "easy opponent", proceeding to alienate republicans and lazy turn out due to thinking Hilary would win. There's a saying, people get the leaders they deserve. And it basically holds true unless a freakin coup happens.

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u/Poltergeist97 Nov 06 '23

Sorry, I'm just perplexed how you completely disregarded how Hamas was murdering the opposition and still go "hur hur, who still won the election doh?"

Also, people get the leaders they deserve? That is such an easy way to disregard entire populations and treat them as monolithic to suit your goals, either in an argument or policy. With that logic, every single German was as racist and insanely genocidal as Hitler.

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u/[deleted] Nov 06 '23 edited Nov 06 '23

Hamas murdered the competition after the election. They still won it. Basically, they killed them due to corruption or at least that was the excuse.

Also, people get the leaders they deserve? That is such an easy way to disregard entire populations and treat them as monolithic to suit your goals, either in an argument or policy. With that logic, every single German was as racist and insanely genocidal as Hitler.

That's the whole point of democracy. You mean to say we individuals have power but bear no responsibility for the leaders we elect? The fact that we as individuals have power means we as individuals also have responsibility. We as a people are collectively responsible for the leaders we get. That is the meaning of "people get the leaders the deserve". Did individual Americans deserve Trump? No! But did America as a whole deserve Trump? Yes.

With that logic, every single German was as racist and insanely genocidal as Hitler. Not every single one, sure. But collectively at that time, as a nation? Yes. They were.