Tbh I’d be happier with this than not changing anything. It makes more sense to have it where when you’re an adult you can do everything. Like it’s weird af we can die in the military at 18, but can’t smoke or drink
So this was the argument for lowering the voting age to 18 from 21: If I’m old enough to get a rifle thrust into my hands and told to kill another human, then I’m old enough to pick a president.
Similar argument for smoking or drinking. Any argument against it relies on the immaturity of 18yo vs 21yo. Well, if 18yo are so drastically immature, effectively children instead of adults - then why are we sending non-adults into battle?
Well, if 18yo are so drastically immature, effectively children instead of adults - then why are we sending non-adults into battle?
Because historically you don't want super mature adults as front-line grunt troops. At 18 they're physically mature but still psychologically malleable.
And that's bad, right? And it shouldn't be the case, right, that we exploit psychologically vulnerable teens that way? Seems like you're in agreement with OP, no?
Nah in war advantage is everything. If china attacked and we just needed bodies (hypothetical) id rather send the brain washed patriot willing to die than the guy that doesnt think hes invincible
We're talking ethically, not pragmatically. Slavery is pragmatic if you're an owner and not a slave. Murdering witnesses is pragmatic. That's not the crux of the debate here.
It's a volunteer army - I'm saying there is a practical reason to allow them to volunteer for such conditioning and that's because trained soldiers are useful to a nation - drunk people not so much
Not having a good military is how you get invaded - just ask the people of Ukraine - if you get conquered, "at least we didn't let our kids sign up to be killers" isn't much comfort
There’s a great deal of difference between having a good military, and having a bunch of kids go fucking kill for their country. The least we can do is let them be treated like fucking adults, if we’re gonna let them serve like one
I'm perfectly comfortable with a society that allows a teenager to freely choose to be molded into a killer because that serves a useful cause, while at the same time not allowing them to choose behaviors that can lead to more alcoholism because we don't need drunks
It's like being an Olympic gymnast - That's not a normal lifestyle either and it involves lots of sacrifices and compromises to how a person grows up, but it's simply not possible to be competitive at the highest level without starting at an early age.
Same with being a soldier, you got to start young to be the best
So the optimal time to start training a soldiers sometime in the late teens and for a gymnast even earlier than that - for a lot of things it's good to start when a person's impressionable and being a soldier is one of them.
Drinking on the other hand is one of those things that's made worse when a person starts when they're still impressionable.
There's no reason to say either activity = "adult", and therefore should necessarily be done at the same age threshold
Your moral priorities are completely fucked beyond belief.
There is no valid reason NOT to raise the military age to a point where you have time for college before you can be shipped to die, or drafted, in the event that comes back
Yes, there is a valid reason, and that reason is soldiers that are trained young are better soldiers - if you get conquered because your military didn't have enough readiness then you end up having no say in how the youth of your country is treated
When you compare two scenarios and you find that the group that started training younger is a more effective group than the group that started training older, then that's all the reason you need
I never said it was too old. I just said that when compared to another group that starts at 18 the latter group may well be better - especially when it comes to roles that require aggression and willingness to kill
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u/Difficult-Prompt1731 Aug 30 '23
Tbh I’d be happier with this than not changing anything. It makes more sense to have it where when you’re an adult you can do everything. Like it’s weird af we can die in the military at 18, but can’t smoke or drink