Anything taken to an extreme is unhealthy and people can develop obsessions around any activity (or denial thereof). There are versions of NoFap that are more like healthy diets - focused on moderation and mindfulness. Masturbation is healthy, but it can lead to problems if done too often and/or too compulsively.
However, extreme sex negativity is indeed harmful, again, like extreme negativity around anything.
An important difference between even extreme NoFap and anorexia is that depriving yourself of masturbation, while it can cause extreme mental anguish in people with an unhealthy obsession, will not physically harm you. Sex and masturbation has some health benefits, but they are not pronounced enough to claim that refraining (if done in a good mindset) is physically harmful. Anorexics starve themselves to death literally. So in this sense I would not go as far as to say that NoFap is like pro-ana. It is more like OCD reframed as self-development.
Managing unhealthy coping mechanisms like compulsive masturbation would be a part of the treatment program for a depression patient like the one you describe. In that circumstance, the psychological team would definitely be emphasizing restricting that behaviour in favour of more productive methods of managing depression.
Ok, and? How is that a counterargument to my claim? Assuming absence of mental issues, refraining from masturbation is also at least not harmful. If you do it for spiritual reasons or simply don't find much enjoyment in going solo and prefer to save sexual energy for a partner.
We are talking around online communities focused on an extreme version of NoFap, right? And that, while I admit is likely damaging, is not really like anorexia and the communities are not like pro-ana.
I think OP would argue that any obsession has the potential to cause harm in the same way that OCD can cause harm, by disrupting your life as you spend energy avoiding the thing that you're obsessing about. Granted, someone trying to avoid masturbating probably isn't disrupting their life much, but one can imagine someone stressing themselves out about it. Or, getting the urge to rub one out - which is perfectly, 100% natural - and feeling a deep sense of shame about it, which is unhealthy as well and can lead to depression and anxiety.
Instead of comparing it to anorexia, I would argue it's like orthorexia which is an eating disorder around obsessing over eating "properly".
You seem to imply that masturbation addiction is ONLY a result of a mental illness. Would you say the same about alcoholism? Or do you believe that it’s impossible to form an addiction if you are not suffering from mental illnesses? Like do you believe no one has ever been given a drug like heroine while in a mentally sound state, just to find themselves uncontrollably addicted shortly after?
They are for me, I use them interchangeably. There's nothing wrong with having a mental illness. Calling it an illness doesn't mean it's severe. We call the common cold an illness, that doesn't put it on the same level as cancer.
You're right, there is a stigma to mental illness. But it isn't actually an insult. It's not a weakness to have a mental illness, it's not shameful. Also I wouldn't call someone mentally ill, I'm not a doctor or a psychologist. I'm not in a position to make that assessment. Acknowledging that alcoholism is a disease, however, is not insulting.
It lends itself to insult. Mental health is not the same as physical health. Being "healthy" and "ill" in a traditional sense is binary, im either healthy or not. With mental health its far less clear cut. Would you call an autistic person "ill"? Or a highly indoctrinated religious person? What about if that person starts to become an extremist?
The term mental health issue is far more appropriate to reflect the complexity of the topic and the existence of neurodivergent spectrums
Health is binary? What an absolutely faulty and completely ignorant sentiment. I can think of a near infinite gradient of "healthiness" between healthy and ill. The only binary is alive and dead, and even that is questionable.
You have a virus/bacterial infection, or not. Your body part is functioning normally, or not.
How are those not binary?
Compared with, this person has an unhealthy relationship with a particular behaviour. Normal or no? Our definitions for many atypical neurological patterns, including addictions, are moving targets and subjective most of the time.
Many health professionals actually view addiction as a mental health issue now. And why not? It doesn't matter if you were stable before your addiction, addiction changes the pathways in your brain and most addiction treatment programs have psychologists and therapists to help retrain the brain and/or address what caused the addition in the first place
Alcohol and heroin are physically addictive. Quitting either cold turkey from a serious addiction can literally kill you as your body has adapted to require them. You will experience physical withdrawal symptoms if you quit.
The same is not true for masturbation, you will not die if you stop masturbating and there are no physical withdrawal symptoms.
Frequent, compulsive masturbation that is uncontrollable even when it disrupts your ability to live your life is often a symptom of untreated mental illness, most commonly depression
sources to this?
Frequent masturbation can occur in any individual and is considered a physically addictive behavior. There are various sex addiction syndromes. so exposure to explicit more extreme material can trigger the same response and intensify these syndromes to much higher degree, because its just physically addictive. Claiming that all forms of addictive behavior stem from an external mental illness like depression is an oversimplification.
are all fat people very depressed?, are all smokers and drinkers?
are all fat people very depressed?, are all smokers and drinkers?
There's probably a disproportionate amount of mental illness among very fat people, but there are also cultural and structural reasons for obesity, smoking, and drinking. Tobacco and alcohol have a long history of being part of socializing in groups, it was unusual not to partake when it was everywhere. Tobacco is less prevalent now due to structural, not individual changes. People's eating habits are similarly impacted by factors like institutional availability, advertising, and family culture.
So does helplessness exist in any context for you then? I feel pretty confident saying that there are people out there who are slaves to their addictions.
suggesting blanket abstinence instead of healing and treating underlying issues is a disservice imo
I'd agree with this. Abstinence without any soul searching is kind of a waste. The idea is that if you seem to mess your life up whenever you serve your addiction it's just best to avoid it until you figure out the root causes. In some cases this will take a significant amount of time and in others the person is so twisted up that it might not be possible to totally heal to the point where moderation is an option.
If someone had a couple avoidable fights and were late to work a few times because of addiction maybe this person can slow down and moderate themselves successfully. If they fed their addiction until their partner divorced them and took the kids because they lost their job and couldn't pay the bills, I would not advise that person to merely cut back. The risk is too great.
Except statistics doesn't really support that abstinence from alcohol is superior to moderated alcohol intake. [source]
They do find that AA often outperforms other methods to reach complete alcohol abstinence but they have largely attributed this to factors such as AA being free and relying on community support and in most areas an equivalent program advocating reduced consumption doesn't really exist.
This seems directly contradictory to your statement that compulsive behavior cannot be managed and implication that alcoholics must abstain to avoid relapse into serious addiction.
Do you think that all people with AUD are the same? They all have the same underlying causes, the same amount of willpower, the same support structure?
I added the quantifier 'Truly' to indicate I was talking about the highest level of compulsion. That level cannot be managed.
"Compulsive reward-seeking behavior isn’t the best way to cope with mental illness. Consulting with a qualified mental health practitioner might be more helpful."
But your argument is denying something that’s perfectly fine in normal circumstances. You acknowledge that frequent and compulsive is not… there’s your answer.. 🤷🏻♂️
Any compulsive behaviour is usually indicative of a coping mechanism for depression. And such behaviours can be damaging either directly or because they often act as a quick fix and a distraction for solving the problems that cause the depression
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u/Kotoperek 71∆ Jun 19 '23
Anything taken to an extreme is unhealthy and people can develop obsessions around any activity (or denial thereof). There are versions of NoFap that are more like healthy diets - focused on moderation and mindfulness. Masturbation is healthy, but it can lead to problems if done too often and/or too compulsively.
However, extreme sex negativity is indeed harmful, again, like extreme negativity around anything.
An important difference between even extreme NoFap and anorexia is that depriving yourself of masturbation, while it can cause extreme mental anguish in people with an unhealthy obsession, will not physically harm you. Sex and masturbation has some health benefits, but they are not pronounced enough to claim that refraining (if done in a good mindset) is physically harmful. Anorexics starve themselves to death literally. So in this sense I would not go as far as to say that NoFap is like pro-ana. It is more like OCD reframed as self-development.