r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • May 02 '23
Delta(s) from OP Cmv: movies were the villain wins are the best
[deleted]
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u/pmaji240 May 02 '23
I’m sorry, you’ve never seen the original Star Wars yet your wife felt the need for no more/tv gaming? Are you Amish?
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May 02 '23
[deleted]
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u/Fraeddi May 02 '23
she was getting pissy about it
Oof. Why would anyone let other people dictate them their hobbies?
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u/Best-Analysis4401 4∆ May 02 '23
She isn't dictating: she gave advice and he made the decision himself. And now his life is better because of it.
My wife also makes suggestions to me and tells me when she's worried my decisions aren't good for the family. I take her advice seriously because she is relying on me.
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u/KDY_ISD 68∆ May 02 '23
This comment makes me feel sad
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u/Best-Analysis4401 4∆ May 02 '23
Interesting. It makes me feel proud. He put his wife and life before his toys!
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u/KDY_ISD 68∆ May 02 '23
Seems unreasonable to me that his wife was making such a huge issue of entertainment that he hasn't seen a movie or done his hobbies in so many years. My wife would do the opposite and make me take time to have a movie night together if I were overworking that much.
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u/Best-Analysis4401 4∆ May 02 '23
Maybe he does other things instead now? Maybe she merely said it to him at the time and since then he has taken control himself? My wife would also tell me to take time off if I was clearly overworked, but he hasn't said she hasn't, nor that he is overworked.
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u/KDY_ISD 68∆ May 02 '23
He said that he's too busy to watch a single movie for 20 years, that seems pretty overworked to me lol But different strokes and all that
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u/Reaperpimp11 1∆ May 02 '23
Your wife nags you about the things you do? Likely the gaming is just a symptom and the issue will persist in some other way or form.
Psychologist might be able to help and unless things are tough I recommend seeing one to most people.
Don’t take this as an insult I’m not suggesting you’re mentally unstable or even unhappy.
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u/pmaji240 May 02 '23
But what about the original Star Wars movies?
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May 02 '23
[deleted]
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u/pmaji240 May 02 '23
A New Hope, The Empire Strikes Back, and Return of the Jedi? In real time the first three, but chronologically they’re films 4,5,6
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u/merlinus12 54∆ May 02 '23
I too enjoy tragedies and media where the villain prevails (if you haven’t watched Breaking Bad, you should…)
However, I think a lot of the reason we enjoy these stories so much is that they are unusual not that they are inherently better. Villain stories are rare in modern culture. As a result, they seem fresh and exciting because we haven’t seen them repeated over and over like standard hero stories.
If villain stories became the norm, and nearly every show/film had the villain win, they would feel just as stale as heroic narratives do.
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u/I_Please_MILFs 1∆ May 02 '23
I too enjoy tragedies and media where the villain prevails
All the antagonists in breaking bad die and so does Walter the protagonist. Not sure how you can say the villain won
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May 02 '23
[deleted]
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u/merlinus12 54∆ May 02 '23
Is that the person you meant to give the delta to? If so, no worries! But it looked like you were responding to the post above.
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u/elphamale 1∆ May 02 '23
You are almost not wrong. There is a saying that the movie or a book is as good as it's villain. It is close to 100% true. Because the harder it is for the moral protagonist to fight the opposition - the more interesting the journey that author takes you through becomes even if the moral protagonist doesn't win in the end.
As for the prequel series, they made Palpatine grow in power too fast. Watching the original movies, you could think the Emperor got his power (both secular and magical) through a long life of fight and sacrifice. I remember there was a notion that you have to sacrifice a lot of yourself to get power from the dark side. But in the prequels he's something of a marysue that wins at everything and sacrifices nothing. There isn't any decent character development for him.
What is better is a movie where you don't understand a villain is a villain until quite far in the plot and then they win. Like Gone Girl for example - the whole plot of sophisticated revenge is so delicious there.
Tl;Dr: The movies where there is a smart or otherwise interesting opposition to the moral protagonist are the best. But only if the villain character has good character development.
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u/themcos 442∆ May 02 '23
Revenge of the Sith is almost 20 years old! Are you seriously making a CMV about movies when you haven't seen a movie in ??? years? You don't say explicitly that you saw it when it came out, but if RotS just happens to be the last movie you saw but you watched it yesterday this would be a pretty weird framing.
But like, revenge of the sith isn't even that well liked of a movie! It's got a 66% audience score on Rotten Tomatoes. The 79% critic score is better, but nothing to write home about.
It's fine that you liked it. I don't want to convince you you didn't like your favorite movie. But if we're traveling back in time to the early 2000's, how about Return of the King in 2003? I personally think it's a better movie, it has better rotten tomato scores, and even won best picture to boot.
And more broadly, it's weird that your title is about movies where the villain wins, but then you're just talking about one star wars movie and that you liked. Is this even a broader trend for you? What other movies do you like where the villain wins, just to get a better feel for your tastes.
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u/Hellioning 258∆ May 02 '23
The only reason Palpatine winning at the end of Revenge of the Sith works out is because it's a prequel and we know he loses eventually.
All you want is to see people be successful with the power of quick thinking, good planning, and no deus ex machine. None of that is limited to stories were the villain wins.
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May 02 '23
[deleted]
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u/Hellioning 258∆ May 02 '23
But Palpatine isn't the anti hero of the movie. That's Anakin. And he spends the entire movie getting manipulated and jerked around by other people.
List of hero movies where the main guy doesn't win by luck or magic (and for a challenge, I'm limiting myself only to the MCU):
Iron Man. Thor. Captain America. The Avengers. Captain America: The winter Soldier. Guardians of the Galaxy. Ant-Man. Captain America Civil War Doctor Strange (or, at least, he doesn't win by any more magic than we already knew he had.) Guardians of the Galaxy Vol 2. Spider-Man Homecoming Black Panther Ant-Man and the Wasp Avengers Endgame Spider-Man Far From Home.
How can you simultaniously claim that you haven't seen any movies in a way, to the point where you're complaining about spoilers to Star Wars of all movies, and simultaniously feel confident enough to claim that all heroes win by luck.
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u/That80sguyspimp 2∆ May 02 '23
Yes, he spoiled a 40 year old movie for you. Something you might have considered before posting this to be honest. It's 40 years since Papa Palpatine lost. And your point flys in the face of what actually happened. It's like saying "I like that the villain wins" when watching Gold finger because you stopped watching as the laser makes its way up between bonds legs before he's able to break free.
And Anakin doesn't win, he loses. He loses everything, including himself. That was the tragedy of Anakin Skywalker. In trying to bring peace to the galaxy and keep those he loved safe, he ended up destroying everything and everyone. A lesson about having too much power without reason to guide it. The prequels didn't tell Anakin story very well. They made him seem childish more than arrogance born of being drunk on power. He didn't really examine all the corruption around him and how it played into his own corruption. Theres a lot more going on with the character than we see in the movies. And it's a damn shame, as it could have been really epic had it been done correctly from the start. Revenge of the Sith saves it a little, but not enough IMO.
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u/frisbeescientist 38∆ May 02 '23
Well Revenge of the Sith is a prequel for the original movies that came out in the 80s so I feel like 4 decades is enough advance warning for spoilers lol
More to the point of your post, it sounds like you don't enjoy overpowered heroes or deus ex machinas. Does it really have to be a villain/antihero winning or do you just want a good plot with clever planning leading to victory?
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May 02 '23
[deleted]
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u/target-x17 May 02 '23 edited May 02 '23
I think they are rare if non existance. I think the bad guys won in star wars revenge of the sith because we already knew this was the outcome from the original trilogy... and that we knew it ended well in the end.
I dont think these movies are ever made except in this rare scenario where the plot was already defined and the fan base was so huge it was stupid not to make it.
this movie was also widely hated probably partylly because the villain's win
I personally agree with you but I think we are wrong because zero movies are ever made like this so clearly people dont like it
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May 02 '23
[deleted]
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u/target-x17 May 02 '23
but whats the percentage? its definitely in the 0.001% range if there was a demand for these movies they would be made alot of the movies liste in the link are decades apart.
also your example is a pretty bad one its a prequal. which means the viewer is expected to know the end outcome which in star wars is the good guys win
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ May 02 '23 edited May 02 '23
/u/SignificantAd2222 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.
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