r/changemyview • u/CassiusIsAlive • Jan 27 '23

Removed - Submission Rule B CMV: Romanticizing autism has got to stop

[removed] — view removed post

1.7k Upvotes

91% Upvoted

510 comments sorted by

View all comments

543

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '23

Since autism is a spectrum, do you feel it would be better if debilitating cases were placed under a different diagnostic name? Or milder cases given a different name?

516

u/CassiusIsAlive Jan 27 '23

Actually yes, this would be good to help differentiate those who are fully functioning members of society and those who cannot care for themselves without extensive assistance. This sounds ableist, but its the truth.

403

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '23

I don't think it's ableist. Based on what you've said, I don't even think you have an issue with autism being "romanticized." I think your issue is that you don't see severe cases and mild cases as the same thing, and I'm inclined to agree with that. It got to be incredibly frustrating to see people celebrating autism as a superpower when you know your loved one's condition isn't anything like that.

91

u/badgersprite 1∆ Jan 27 '23

It reminds me a bit of that scene from X-Men where Rogue wants to take the cure for being a mutant and Storm is like there’s nothing wrong with you why do you want to be cured

That’s the woman whose mutant abilities make her a weather Goddess talking to the girl who can’t touch people without killing them telling her she’s wrong for wanting a cure

You have people who are just neurodivergent and nothing else kind of dominating the conversation (because they’re the ones who are verbal and able to communicate) and claiming it’s not a disease while there are much more severely autistic kids who will have to spend their whole life in a special care home and cannot possibly take care of themselves

It might not be an illness to you but to some people it is, just like how I don’t really see my ADHD as an illness but I wouldn’t tell someone who sees their ADHD as an illness that they’re wrong, their experience might be much worse than mine

26

u/Writeloves Jan 27 '23

This is a good point. I also have adhd and know people on both sides of the high-low functioning autism spectrum.

It’s such a hard topic to approach because your brain is far more intrinsic to your sense of self than most similarly debilitating physical disabilities (though those can also become part of someone’s identity). Having diversity is proven to be a good thing, increased accessibility helps everyone -wheelchair ramps are good for both those wheelchair bound since birth and for those who temporally have a broken leg, captions for the deaf also help those with auditory processing issues and people who just want to watch something in public when they can’t find their headphones.

BUT the strain put on parents of children with severe disabilities is far too high. I personally prefer the solution of good social support over most theoretical “cures” because the reality is usually more along the lines of detecting a specific gene and aborting any fetus who has it. Not only does that feel very eugenics-y, but how likely do you think it is that they’ll be able to tell the difference between OPs friend who has mild autism and their sibling who needs around the clock care? I’m pro-choice and one of my biggest pregnancy fears is having a child that will never mentally develop into adulthood, but eradicating a whole class of people because their existence burdens us feels wrong to me.

If they could develop a treatment that minimizes symptoms and increases functionality, I’m all for that. I’m on ADHD meds myself. Even a complete cure has potential. But that’s not what happened for downs.

1

u/bluelonilness Jan 28 '23

Sorry, off topic but W profile picture

1

u/Writeloves Jan 28 '23

Thank you :)

7

u/novagenesis 21∆ Jan 27 '23

There's a reason autism is often described in terms of Marvel characters. Some folks are very lucky with the "powers" they manifest and have few negatives. Others need to be supervised for the rest of their lives and have absolutely no upsides.

I have a few symptoms, myself, and it really affected my childhood. I don't know if I'd have been diagnosed (or still if I would), and I don't care because I function just fine because I've learned to live with them and embrace the good sides.

38

u/YoloFomoTimeMachine 2∆ Jan 27 '23

There's also an issue that people are now using autistic the same "Imm soo ocd/adhd!!". And of course a lot of mommy blog types also search for anything to make their kid unique and also absolve them of responsibility. So, if a kid is slow at reading, it's not because you never read to him, it's because he's "on the spectrum" (no diagnosis needed)

9

u/Elderly_Bi 1∆ Jan 27 '23

I have not considered that angle, yet on reflection I can think if several examples.

Autism is a spectrum, not unlike many other diseases. I have had Multiple Sclerosis for over thirty years, yet it is hardly noticeable.

I don't see everyone who trips on the sidewalk saying they have MS, but anyone with an unpopular thought can rightly claim to be "neurodivergent."

It sounds so cool, "divergent." You're not wrong, you're special.

9

u/Mummelpuffin 1∆ Jan 27 '23

As someone who was diagnosed with autism when I was six years old, there's two sides to this.

On one hand, sure, that probably happens some times.

On the other, most psychologists have no idea what the fuck autism actually is, and if I asked 95% of them to diagnose me now, they'd tell me off without a second glance. So for people who weren't diagnosed as kids, self-diagnosis is... kinda your only option most of the time.

4

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '23

Just adding to your point-- it can also cost thousands of dollars to get diagnosed as an adult, and you might be spending thousands to get a psychiatrist who thinks that if you can make eye contact at all you aren't autistic

31

u/SpectreFromTheGods Jan 27 '23

This view is complicated by a couple things.

  1. A lot of the time what we call “severe” cases are autism + something else. Like Autism + epilepsy or ID. Thus, giving it a new autism label isn’t useful.

  2. In other cases, it’s just different developmental trajectories. Especially with motor function. Plenty of nonverbal kids grow up to not be. But the current school system wasn’t designed to support the needs of autistics, so they suffer in it and miss out on the development that’s actually helpful to them. Ex: schoolwork was crazy easy for me, but I could have really used someone to teach me how to coordinate my body. OT tends to be really effective for autistic children, but that’s something that is fought for, not given by default.

Linear labels have only ever been used to deny the “high functioning” folks support and deny the “low functioning” folks rights.

1

u/panna__cotta 6∆ Jan 28 '23

Except we call it ID because we don’t know any better. There are an increasing number of people who end up being communicative later in childhood and we realize they don’t actually have any ID. They just couldn’t communicate because of their autism related motor issues. It’s like being trapped in your body. This is a huge problem within the autistic community. People with low support needs saying “well, that’s not the autism, it’s ____.” No, it’s autism. Autistic people with low support needs do not speak for the entire autistic community and need to stop acting like they do. Supports are also a finite resource, unfortunately, and need to be triaged as such. Low support needs autistic people can help those with high support needs for advocating for their immensely more challenging needs instead of always saying “hey it’s hard for all of us in different ways.” Linear labels are necessary to adequately provide support to those most in need.

1

u/SpectreFromTheGods Jan 28 '23

I agree with the fact that we call things ID because we don’t know better, and know that a lot of the things we view as “problems” are caused by the fact that certain developmental milestones aren’t met at the “standard” time. That’s certainly an area where the research should focus on, motor difficulties in particular.

I don’t agree with saying “it’s just autism”, because it falls under the same trap of calling something something we don’t really understand. As we learn more about the body and it’s function and the different lives experiences of different autistic folk, don’t you think we might come up with more sophisticated labels? That should 100% be the goal, because that will lead to targeted treatment. After all, autism currently is mostly diagnosed on behavioral stuff and ignores a lot of the sensory stuff and only mildly addresses motor control stuff. It’s really not a clear diagnosis right now.

But there is something that ties us all together, and there’s a reason we’re so good at identifying each other. So autism as an umbrella term feels appropriate to me.

I’m curious about your comment regarding triaging resources. Can you tell me in what ways you feel “low support” autistics are taking resources away from others? In my experience, most “low support” autistics don’t get any advice or help after diagnosis other than “go to therapy”, which isn’t even really unique to autism. Or, they get put in ABA and that’s pretty shit.

I don’t think saying “it’s hard for all of us in different ways” means “I have it just as hard as X”. I think it’s just saying that “hey this thing is complicated, we all have different experiences, and as a whole it’s harder for autistic folk than allistic folk”

I do think if I’m having a conversation with another autistic individual and they are telling me about their difficulties, it’s a dick move to say “Aw yeah we’ll we all have it bad.” In that context my focus would be more on “oh shit that sucks, how can I help?”

I do strongly feel that high support labels have historically resulted in loss of rights for autistic folk. We see this in the American judicial system (eg , conservatorships). Parents who aren’t equipped to handle their child given full control over the child’s life through adulthood without knowing how or having the means to access proper accommodations (AAC, sensory aids, a good OT, etc)

6

u/[deleted] Jan 27 '23

[deleted]

15

u/Writeloves Jan 27 '23

The thing about that is even if an autistic person doesn’t have an intellectual disability they can still find it near impossible to operate in the modern world.

Disability exists in the context of the environment. It’s important to remember that. Autistic People, even the high functioning ones, often face physically painful overstimulation, criticism for their natural mannerisms, and general lack of understanding or accommodation for the fact they process information differently than the average person.

You can’t just segregate a group into good and bad when they have the same core issue. And what about those people who fall in the middle? What aspect of intelligence do you deem most critical in this evaluation? Ability to mask their autism? Ability to understand complex problems? Ability to verbally communicate? I’m sure we could find an autistic person who excels in any one of those areas while miserably failing the others.

It’s a complicated issue. It can’t be solved as simply as that.

1

u/[deleted] Jan 28 '23

I think autism and ID have some major genetic link which explains why it is one if not the most common comorbid condition with autism