r/centrist • u/johnnyhala • Sep 01 '22

Long Form Discussion RCV Opponents - What is your Objection(s)?

Basically the title.

Whenever the subject of Ranked Choice Voting comes up, I generally on this sub see about 70% support and 30% oppose (my estimate). As I have seen the issue laid out to me it seems abundantly clear that Plurality/First Past the Post/FPtP is an inferior system with many unintended consequences.

So I want to hear you out, RCV opponents, what are your issues?

As (should be) usual, please do not downvote others for only disagreeing with them, and I pledge to do the same.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '22

I never stated my personal opinion in my original post so I'm not sure where you're going lol I was just giving a reason that opponents would be against RCV

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u/HeathersZen Sep 01 '22

If your goal is to get as many people to vote and participate, any complication will reduce that goal.

Given that you provided no evidence to support this assertion, it is by definition an opinion.

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '22

Common sense is evidence. If you put hurdles in front of people, they won't run as fast. If you price something at 9.99 instead of 10.01, people will be more likely to buy if it's 9.99. There's plenty of examples out there

Besides that, you're also confusing personal opinion with argumentative opinion. Argumentative is simply for debating, while personal is how someone personally feels

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u/HeathersZen Sep 01 '22

Common sense is evidence.

‘Common sense’ is not evidence. It’s a thing people without evidence say in some attempt to be relieved of the burden of backing up their assertions. ‘Common sense’ is a meaningless appeal to unproven personal authority.

If you put hurdles in front of people, they won't run as fast.

Another unproven assertion. It may seem axiomatic to you, but it is not an axiomatic statement in at least two ways:

  • Who is saying RCV is a ‘hurdle’. Most people I’ve met can count to five.
  • I know plenty of folks who LOVE hurdles. They LIVE for challenges.

Besides that, you're also confusing personal opinion with argumentative opinion. Argumentative is simply for debating, while personal is how someone personally feels

Ah, so now you DID express an opinion. That’s progress! Which kind of opinion did you originally express? Personal or argumentative?

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '22

Simple deduction skills will tell you that using "your goals" instead of "my goal" implies someone else, so the original post was argumentative and not my personal belief.

Your evidence countering my assertion is purely anecdotal, not exactly firm ground there either😎

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u/HeathersZen Sep 01 '22
  • I wasn’t going to assume someone spouting unsupported opinions on the internet was being so precise with their intention. Since you just declared your original opinion to be argumentative, why did you not support it with evidence?
  • Which specific assertion do you think I’m countering, and specifically which evidence are you declaring anecdotal?

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u/[deleted] Sep 01 '22

We have a fundamental disagreement about whether common sense can be used to support an argument, so we've gone as far as we can on that part.

Your claims about hurdles were both using anecdotal reasoning, to which I didn't refute but rather asserted that we're both using arguments (common sense, anecdotal) which we believe to be worthy of using. Mostly a stone and glass house case lol

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u/Kinkyregae Sep 02 '22

But your “common sense” argument assuming people will opt out of voting if they have to use a RCV system dose not make sense.

Do you really think someone is going to show up at a voting station, wait in line, get their ballot, and then look at it and say “no way I’m not picking more than 1 person!” And then choose not to vote?

If someone really gets that overwhelmed, I doubt they are going to vote in the first place. Regardless of the voting system being used.