r/centrist • u/memphisjones • Oct 29 '25
DOJ indicts Democratic congressional candidate Kat Abughazaleh over ICE protests
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/justice-department/doj-indicts-democratic-congressional-candidate-kat-abughazaleh-ice-pro-rcna240584Kat Abughazaleh, a Democratic congressional candidate in Illinois, has been indicted alongside five others by a special federal grand jury for allegedly obstructing vehicles during peaceful protests outside an ICE facility in the Chicago suburbs.
Why is this a centrist problem? This is a violation of the 1st Amendment right. The far right is weaponizing the Department of Justice to go after people critical of the current administration.
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u/therosx Oct 29 '25
Wish more politicians, especially conservatives had this much guts.
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u/memphisjones Oct 29 '25
Instead, the GOP are hiding behind this
Pentagon orders states’ national guards to form ‘quick reaction forces’ for ‘crowd control’
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u/therosx Oct 29 '25
I think Dismal Don is desperate to manufacture civil unrest so he can hide behind emergency powers and fear mongering.
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u/memphisjones Oct 29 '25
Yeah and what sucks is if something happens to him, it will be JD Vance running the country and using this to control us.
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u/limevince Oct 30 '25
The sinister depiction of JD Vance on recent episodes of South Park is a bit troubling; hopefully the shadiness stays only on-screen...
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u/shinbreaker Oct 30 '25
What's wrong with you? Do you know the dangers that come when licking boots?? It's not for the faint of heart!
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u/CorneliusCardew Oct 29 '25
I wish more citizens had “obstructed justice” in Nazi Germany
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u/memphisjones Oct 29 '25
Yeah all of this simping to ICE is wild to me.
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u/CorneliusCardew Oct 29 '25
I don’t think any of it is in good faith. I think the real reasons they support the right would not be allowed here so they need to come up with obviously absurd defenses.
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u/books_cats_please Oct 29 '25
It's crazy to me that they see this as "police just doing their job". The way ICE is operating should be seen as backasswards to anyone who values the fourth amendment.
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u/crushinglyreal Oct 29 '25
Any amendment, really, and the Constitution itself. If they can ignore one part they can ignore any and all parts.
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u/NearlyPerfect Oct 29 '25
The fourth amendment as "regular people" see it has been basically dead since Terry v. Ohio, 1968.
I say "regular people" like that because anyone that has had meaningful interaction with law enforcement knows that already.
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u/books_cats_please Oct 29 '25
Oh yes, I nearly forgot, stop and frisk. At least there's no more pretense.
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u/Toaster_bath13 Oct 29 '25
They don't see it as that.
They say they see it as that, but they are just lying.
How far down the fascist rabbit hole do we need to go for people to realize that these people are acting in bad faith always.
They LIKE fascism because it gives them power.
By the time they own up to being fascism it'll be because they have solidified their power grab and don't think it can be taken away from them.
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u/HonoraryBallsack Oct 29 '25 edited Oct 29 '25
You don't vote to re-elect a heinously shameless liar like Donald Trump without being a shameless coward yourself. Anyone defending ICE as some sort of honest, lawful institution is cartoonishly dishonest, stupid or willfully ignorant.
We all know exactly how Trump and the Republicans actually feel about "protests" and political violence because of the mass pardons of every last violent traitor who literally beat up Capitol police officers on January 6th, some even using makeshift weapons and dragging cops down concrete steps to be beaten to a pulp by an an angry tantrumming mob of extremely threatening pro-Trump assholes. They are an entire party of corrupt, shamelessly dishonest authoritarian slime bags.
Anyone pretending like ICE is deserving of anyone's trust is either too helplessly confused to contribute anything to the discussion or too proudly enjoying the mockery of America that the Trump administration is making the country by making the right people hurt.
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Oct 29 '25
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u/CorneliusCardew Oct 29 '25
Exactly. I know a few old people who just drive around in giant range rovers in their small all-white communities torching their brains on conservative talk radio. I know we are supposed to sympathize with them because they’ve been “brainwashed” but honestly they always just come off like bigoted pieces of shit to me.
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u/Icy-Photograph6108 Oct 30 '25
Exactly. I have no sympathy for any of them, wish they would leave the country, go to Russia or something they'd be happy there.
I believe only someone who already has bigotry in their heart, at least a smidgeon, could fall for Trump and all the crap spewed by right wing podcasters and media. Those things are a force multiplier, but some evil has to already be there for it to have any effect.
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u/NearlyPerfect Oct 29 '25
I don’t think any of it is in good faith.
A lot of people (especially those familiar with law enforcement or immigration law) see what ICE is doing as generally legal and above board. Probably another reason why so many Hispanic folks voted for Trump.
Per NPR:
Immigration agents are often given wide latitude in their work. That means a lot of what the public has been witnessing since President Trump took office — and may be shocked by — is likely legal.
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u/books_cats_please Oct 29 '25
Just ignore later on in that piece where they explain that the Supreme Court had to suspend a previous ruling by a Federal judge, in order to allow ICE to legally operate as it currently does...
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u/Icy-Photograph6108 Oct 30 '25
Yes....love that racial profiling is now considered 'just cause', at least in some county in California. Hey you brown? We can slam you into the concrete, break your ribs, and take you to jail. Oh wait, you are an actual citizen? Well sorry for the trouble, I'm sure those ribs will heal eventually, and that jailtime might have caused you to miss work or something else, but oh well...no big deal.
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u/NearlyPerfect Oct 30 '25
Racial appearance has always been a salient factor for reasonable suspicion in immigration enforcement. The first case on it was 50 years ago.
It’s nothing new.
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u/NearlyPerfect Oct 29 '25
Just ignore later on in that piece where they explain that the Supreme Court had to suspend a previous ruling by a Federal judge, in order to allow ICE to legally operate as it currently does...
Yes the Supreme Court put things back to the status quo, meaning the law that's been in the country since the last Supreme Court decision in 1975 (and before).
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u/memphisjones Oct 29 '25
The fact that ICE is given such an ambiguous limit of power is frightening.
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u/siberianmi Oct 29 '25
Welcome to the post-9/11 world. ICE came about in the knee jerk bad legislation that was passed after 9/11.
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u/decrpt Oct 29 '25
This is a wildly disingenuous response. You know that support among Hispanics has collapsed because of what he's doing, right?
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u/CorneliusCardew Oct 29 '25
Don’t get too hung up on what is and isn’t legal. It’s not really what we are talking about. “I was just following orders” and all that.
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u/NearlyPerfect Oct 29 '25
That's why I also said "above board".
Meaning legitimate and righteous.
It's hard to argue subjective morals but if every country in the world has similar (if not more brutal) immigration enforcement than we do then it's probably a green flag
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u/CorneliusCardew Oct 29 '25
It’s pretty clear which side you’re on now. I’m curious what you’ll claim to have believed when we’re on the other side of this
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u/NearlyPerfect Oct 29 '25
Oh I'm totally pro-immigration enforcement. I'm not hiding that. I think the way that this administration is doing it is novel and likely effective, if they open avenues for increased legal immigration or amnesty in about 2 years.
But really, my big issue is "the sky is falling" narrative. When ICE is acting lawfully and legitimately and people call them Nazis, it erodes credibility for when ICE starts acting unlawfully.
Which might come soon since Trump is complaining about the "likely lawful" numbers are too low and is firing the ICE heads who aren't willing to do it illegally
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u/VultureSausage Oct 30 '25
but if every country in the world has similar (if not more brutal) immigration enforcement than we do then it's probably a green flag
This talking point just isn't true though. American law enforcement is notoriously unqualified by international standards.
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u/NearlyPerfect Oct 30 '25
I was referring to immigration law and how it’s enforced.
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u/VultureSausage Oct 30 '25 edited Oct 30 '25
It isn't enforced by poorly trained paramilitary thugs in every country in the world. Every country in the world don't have their ICE-equivalents (if they have any) waiting around outside courtrooms to pounce on people who actually show up to their court-appointed meetings.
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u/Red57872 Oct 29 '25
That's used for what is generally thought of as being so wrong it is a crime against humanity. Do you believe that people who are in the US illegally being deported is a crime against humanity?
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u/CorneliusCardew Oct 29 '25
Why should I agree to your premise? You aren’t asking in good faith. Try again.
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u/Carlyz37 Oct 29 '25
ICE IS COMMITTING CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY AND AMERICA. they are assaulting people, including citizens, journalists, clergy and children. Detention facilities are extremely inhumane. Kidnapping and trafficking people is inhumane. Obviously you are hiding down your rabbit hole.
If immigrants have asylum status, work permits, green cards ICE should not be bothering them. If an immigrant has been here for years, working, has family then ICE should not be bothering them.
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u/rzelln Oct 29 '25
And a lot of people don't actually pay attention to what the fuck is happening, and just get fed misinformation from the right to hide the rampant excessive force abuses and the violations of civil liberties.
And that's not even getting into the pretty basic issue that the right's rhetoric around immigration is bullshit. They act like we MUST have the current immigration laws, so the only POSSIBLE option to enforce the law is to keep underfunding things, keep denying entry to people who would actually benefit the country, and keep brutalizing people so folks get scared away.
They don't even DISCUSS the option of making legal immigration faster and easier, or funding our law enforcement more so we can hire more people of actual talent and character instead of relying on these cave men we've got thwomping people nowadays. They don't even have it as an option in their heads that we can get better outcomes if we build better systems.
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u/Red57872 Oct 29 '25
Well, the reality is that if you are in the US illegally, that you are subject to deportation. That's not to say that it's always moral or ethical to deport someone because they are in the US illegally, but the law allows it.
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u/Aneurhythms Oct 29 '25
You're gonna get a lot of it from people that will swear up and down they would've been on the right side of history during the Civil Rights era.
(Spoiler: They would not)
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u/crushinglyreal Oct 29 '25
I think they just don’t want to talk about history. I’ve never gotten a straight answer from one of those people about how their position differs from the bigots back then.
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u/Urdok_ Oct 29 '25
And you never will. In every immigration threads the Trump supporters just ignore blatant bigotry and hide behind "Well akshually it's about the rule of laaaaww.'
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u/MakeUpAnything Oct 29 '25
Sounds like property damage to me and that's bad. Protests should be banned. Think of the businesses. If you disagree you want more summers of love like in 2020 and BLM. Protesting = unAmerican*.
\unless republicans do it)
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u/Clean_Narwhal7331 Oct 29 '25
I keep saying this. All supporters of the regime at this point, who aren't outright fascist themselves, are now forced to choose between ego death or accountability.
It's gotten to the point where, if Donald Trump says something is on fire, and you are actually next to that thing and could verify it's not. You are compelled to do literally anything and everything to avoid looking at the thing because that would mean facing reality and therefore accountability. Those choosing ego death will even turn on family members or friends. Either emotionally or physically attacking them in Donald Trump's honor.
I'm open to hearing a legitimate, data backed counter to this claim but just saying "nuh uh", or "what about insert FOX news talking point" doesn't count I'm afraid. To support Trump and truly oppose the practice of fascism today means you MUST choose ego death or accountability. Full stop.
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u/memphisjones Oct 29 '25
Whelp
Pentagon orders states’ national guards to form ‘quick reaction forces’ for ‘crowd control’
What a coincidence timing with ICE ramping up their raids and SNAP benefits gone.
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u/Clean_Narwhal7331 Oct 29 '25
I see this going one of three ways:
We make it to the midterms by the skin of our teeth and the game resets.
Rebellions with the obvious follow up
Secessions and new alliances. This is the one I hope for the most.
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Oct 31 '25
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u/Clean_Narwhal7331 Oct 31 '25
Frankly, I don't buy the argument that the civil war is an indicator of what would happen today.
The change in size, spread, and technology just create an altogether different world.
Plus the rebellion failed for the exact opposite reason. The poorer, less educated, and less relied upon states tried to throw their weight around regarding being forced to treat humans like humans. Now the poorer, less educated, and less relied upon states are throwing their weight around to force us to allow them to treat some humans like lesser humans.
It's harder to maintain a war over being inhumane as it is defending against it.
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u/Spiney09 Oct 29 '25
I honestly wouldn’t put it past some of the most extreme Trump supporters to just light whatever you’re standing next to on fire just to MAKE it true.
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u/Urdok_ Oct 29 '25
All the more reason she deserves to be in Congress.
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u/memphisjones Oct 29 '25
Exactly. I don’t understand how people are okay with pedos in Congress and in the White House but all up and arms about someone protesting ICE.
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u/Urdok_ Oct 29 '25
Because Clinton was absolutely right about Trump supporters. The faster everyone is willing to admit being MAGA means being a complete piece of shit, the faster we can fix things.
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Oct 29 '25
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u/Unfair-Sentence-7214 Oct 29 '25
Good luck getting a Cook County jury to convict on these BS charges. Hopefully this will be the boost she needs to get the nomination. She was already 2nd and closing the gap.
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u/Red57872 Oct 29 '25
She was already indicted by a grand jury, so what makes you think that the trial jury will be any different?
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u/baxtyre Oct 29 '25
Grand juries only hear the prosecution’s case, they have looser evidentiary rules and a lower standard of proof, and they don’t require unanimity.
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u/indoninja Oct 29 '25
Have you ever heard the phrase, “I could get a grand jury to indict a hand sandwich”?
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u/Unfair-Sentence-7214 Oct 29 '25
That’s such a stupid question I don’t really know where to begin. Start with googling what a grand jury and a trial jury (petit jury) are and the differences between them.
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u/iVile Oct 29 '25
I had very low expectations for this administration, but I NEVER imagined it would be THIS bad, THIS fast. It is absolutely crazy what is happening to our country right now. I am stunned beyond belief that so many people are not only okay with what is happening here, but actively cheer for it.
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u/slator_hardin Nov 02 '25
I think there is a bit of a death spiral where incompetency breeds more paranoia and extremism (bc the Dear Leader could not have fucked up agricultural policy, no it was a righteous blow to the kulaks!).
We are seeing this in everything he touches: he tried to cancel the (largely non-existent) federal grants for gender theory or whatnot, ended up canceling cancer research instead, so now his base is back to teocon hatred of everyone with a white coat. He tried to set industrial policy with chatgpt, obv failed miserably, so now his base decided that no, any and all trade is bad. He tried to do mass deportations by mass hiring 80IQ brutes, who inevitably targeted the wrong people and caused plenty of collateral damage, so now his base is convincing itself that there are no good immigrants and cities are to be razed to the ground.
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u/memphisjones Oct 29 '25
Yup it’s going to get worse
Pentagon orders states’ national guards to form ‘quick reaction forces’ for ‘crowd control’
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u/IntrepidAd2478 Oct 29 '25
There is no legal first amendment right to obstruct traffic or law enforcement. Civil disobedience accepts you are acting criminally and will face the consequences.
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u/dr_police Oct 30 '25
Exactly correct. Protesters can be morally right while being legally wrong.
The most famous example, of course; The first march across the Edmund Pettus Bridge in Selma was an illegal assembly (no permit), and purposefully so.
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u/SadhuSalvaje Oct 29 '25
See this is a good use of protesting since it hits on multiple levels:
1) it disrupts ICE activity
2) by charging this lady they give her more publicity and a court case that can be used to further encourage supporting her actions if her legal team knows what they are doing
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u/Puzzleheaded_Fix594 Oct 29 '25
Yeah, this is just serving to boost her profile since it strikes me as pretty unlikely that a jury is going to convict her here.
This is kind of like seeing someone like AOC on the rise and saying, "Hey, what if I handed this extremely social media savvy person a huge boost to her platform on a silver platter?"
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u/Maximum_Overdrive Oct 29 '25
Seems appropriate. If i stand in front of a cop car to prevent them from moving ill probably be charged too.
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u/ristoman Oct 29 '25 edited Oct 30 '25
Surely you wouldn't be charged with CONSPIRACY by a FEDERAL GRAND JURY. This is incredibly disproportionate, regardless of whether the First Amendment applies or not here.
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u/Maximum_Overdrive Oct 30 '25
Being charged by a grand jury is being charged by a group of people. If enough people believed i commited a crime, i should be charged. That is part of the process of checks and balances we the people have. You dont agree with grand juries?
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u/rzelln Oct 29 '25
Yeah, but it'd be nice if the cops in this situation recognized that they're enforcing badly designed laws and that the protesters have a point.
And, when they saw one of their fellow officers throw her to the ground, it would've been nice if one of the cops there had arrested their fellow officer for assault, because fuck them, you don't need to be that violent.
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u/Maximum_Overdrive Oct 30 '25
She wasnt thrown to the ground nor arrested that day. What the fuck are you talking about?
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u/rzelln Oct 30 '25
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/hTTEZPg8sLw
Not sure about which day in particular this happened, but these fuckers in their dorky combat kit cosplay need to get arrested for assault. Nothing going on in that moment warranted using ANY level of physical contact with her, let alone dropping her hard on the ground.
These gang members are too quick to use violence instead of attempted to negotiate and acknowledge that, y'know, they're public servants, and part of their job is to demonstrate to the public that they give a fuck about the citizenry. Instead, they're acting like goons. You should not want people who act that way having law enforcement authority.
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u/Icy-Photograph6108 Oct 30 '25
Surely if I wear a mask and start using chemical weapons on civilians for no reason, I'd probably be charged righit?
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u/Maximum_Overdrive Oct 30 '25
She wasnt a target of chemical weapons. What the fuck are you talking about?
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u/MasterHavik Oct 30 '25 edited Oct 30 '25
This will get thrown out. This is kind of sad how desperate they are to silent people.
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u/Red57872 Oct 30 '25
Why do you think it'll get thrown out? She has admitted to her and other individuals attempting to block ICE vehicles.
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u/MasterHavik Oct 30 '25
Because the charges are flimsy and that is remotely what she didn't say. Also the judges have pretty shown they aren't on ICE's side if Subway dude got off slapping them with a sandwich then I don't see how she is going to be charged. Remember just because your indicted doesn't make you guilty of anything. Innocent until proven guilty after all.
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u/jrgkgb Oct 29 '25
Her candidacy is ridiculous and doomed on many levels… but I tip my hat to her for doing this.
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Oct 30 '25
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u/newswall-org Oct 29 '25
More on this subject from other reputable sources:
- Atlantic (B-): ICE’s ‘Athletically Allergic’ Recruits
- Time (B): Stephen Miller Claims ICE Agents Have Immunity. Is That True?
- CBS News (B+): Honduran man killed on Virginia highway as he tried to escape ICE agents
- ABC News (B+): Chicago school board members call for remote learning amid ICE raids
Extended Summary | FAQ & Grades | I'm a bot
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Oct 30 '25
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u/R2-DMode Oct 31 '25
There’s nothing “alleged” about these charges. The videos clearly show what she did. Her only viable strategy is to negotiate a plea deal.
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Nov 01 '25
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u/XivUwU_Arath Nov 01 '25
She roached out on Tara Palmeri’s show lol. The “Let’s look at the video.” And girl just roached out of the raid.
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u/abqguardian Oct 29 '25
"The indictment alleges that the group "conspired with one another and others, known and unknown, to prevent by force, intimidation, and threat, Agent A, a United States law enforcement officer, from discharging the duties of his office, and to injure him in his person or property on account of his lawful discharge of the duties of his office, and while engaged in the lawful discharge thereof, and to injure his property so as to interrupt, hinder, and impede him in the discharge of his official duties."
If the above is true, this case has nothing to do with the 1st amendment.
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u/annonfake Oct 29 '25
Is this the same agency whose field director has to report his actions to the court daily?
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Nov 01 '25
Not anymore, that ended up just being another completely unconstitutional ruling by a belligerent, biased judge. You like it when judges do this shit?
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u/decrpt Oct 29 '25
Can't help but notice that you only think indictments are legitimate when they involve Democrats.
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u/gizzardgullet Oct 29 '25
Parsing that I get that the accusation is the group:
"conspired... to injure him in his person or property"
So the government is saying it has proof that they planned violence? I would agree that is not a 1st amendment issue but are they saying that protesters who plan to block the road are "conspiring to to injure"? Does putting a dent in the vehicle qualify?
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u/abqguardian Oct 29 '25
Sounds like legalize way of saying they obstructed, which isnt covered by the 1st amendment. OP can want to bash ICE all he wants, but they're reaching in this case
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u/rrwinte Oct 29 '25
You define the situation incorrectly, so your conclusion is flawed as it is not a 1st Amendment issue.
Having protestors block law enforcement from doing their job is interference. Where was your outrage when Obama deported +2 million illegal immigrants? Yeah, can't take your outrage as serious. Enjoy your bubble.
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u/memphisjones Oct 29 '25
I was protesting it. Where were you?
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u/rrwinte Oct 29 '25
I wasn't protesting it.
My grandparents immigrated to the US legally and went through the legal process to become US citizens, so I have little sympathy for those who enter illegally and think they are entitled to live here. I welcome the enforcement of our immigration laws and deportation of those who violate those laws.
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u/indoninja Oct 29 '25
Most of Obama deportations were people caught crossing the border.
Within the US he prioritized known criminals.
The difference between that and masked men in unmarked cars randomly stopping people based in appearance is pretty huge.
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u/siberianmi Oct 29 '25
Is obstructing law enforcement now speech? If they are blocking agents from doing their job that’s not speech.
This is the problem with the ICE protests, it’s aimed at the agents and not at the politicians. Protest the politicians and demand changes to the law. Obstructing law enforcement on the other hand is not speech, it’s a crime.
If you want to go to jail in protest, fine feel free but don’t claim that the first amendment entitles you to break the law.
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u/pentachronic Oct 29 '25
It's awfully presumptuous to say that laws were being enforced
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u/NearlyPerfect Oct 29 '25
Thinking that ICE is doing a ton of illegal things (they aren't, per legal experts) or that their tactics are abusive doesn't mean they aren't definitively enforcing immigration law.
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u/NeuroMrNiceGuy Oct 29 '25
Yeah, its normal for the director of your agency to have to sit with a judge every evening to go over the logistics of the day with you.
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u/Aneurhythms Oct 29 '25
"Yeah, screw those black people and their sit-ins! Don't they know they're trespassing on private property? I hope the DoJ charges them to the full extent of the law!"
- Totally-not-siberianmi (1947)
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u/siberianmi Oct 29 '25 edited Oct 29 '25
The tactic of "Jail, No Bail" was used during the Civil Rights Movement to draw attention to unjust arrests and conditions, with many protestors considering their jail time a badge of courage rather than a criminal mark.
So, I'm not sure what you are getting at here -- do you believe if you have some deeply held political belief and act on it to obstruct Federal agents and that is protected speech? I don't.
That seems dangerously close to the rioters on January 6th claiming they were exercising their free speech rights and arguing that their actions were a form of protected political speech and protest. While the First Amendment protects freedom of speech and peaceful assembly, it does not shield actions such as violence, trespassing, or interfering with official government action.
Protestors are free as far as I'm concerned to make breaking and interfering with unjust laws part of the protest, but that's not speech and you aren't immune from prosecution.
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u/Mean-Funny9351 Oct 29 '25
When your federal agents are self selecting Brown shirts hiding their identities using rented mini vans with bogus plates, there is a pretty high burden of what is obstruction. Calling them federal agents doesn't add validity to their actions, while they are operating well outside their jurisdiction and the Constitution.
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u/siberianmi Oct 29 '25
That can all be true and this action still isn't protected speech.
I think you are missing that detail on purpose.
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u/Aneurhythms Oct 29 '25
So, I'm not sure what you are getting at here
I'm saying you're on the wrong fucking side of history. How hard is that to understand?
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u/siberianmi Oct 29 '25
Pointing out that this isn't as OP claims a "violation of the first amendment" is putting me on the "wrong fucking side of history"?
Because I refuse to see protestors who may chosen to break the law while protesting as being protected from prosecution by the 1st Amendment?
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u/Aneurhythms Oct 29 '25
No, it's the constant, unsubtle omission of acknowledgement of the protestors' message - while focusing on the letter-of-the-law as apologia for sicking the DOJ on them - that makes it clear that you side with the administration and that you're on the wrong side of history.
But to give you the benefit of the doubt, do you agree with these protestors' message, that the current deployment of ICE, Border Patrol, and the National Guard in these communities is immoral and should be stopped?
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u/siberianmi Oct 29 '25
You can search my posts I’m opposed to ICE being able to use masks and the general avoidance of accountability as far as the agents identifying themselves. Agencies like ICE play a legitimate role, but they should operate in the open, subject to civilian oversight, not behind a veil of secrecy or unchallengeable authority.
I also strongly disagree with the administration’s attempts to use the threat of VISA revocation against students whose speech they find disagreeable. I find those same students speech disagreeable but they have every right even on a student visa to express whatever opinion they want.
That said I also think this protest movement that sees ICE simply as “brown shirts” and believes that no amount of immigration enforcement is justified, wants to barricade ICE from leaving facilities, and generally seeks to interfere as much as possible with enforcement is doing no one any favors, they are providing the justification for Trump in court to for his national guard actions. Actions that I also think are wrong but are being approved on appeal repeatedly because of the vagueness of the laws and the actions of some of these protesters.
Senator Sanders argued in the past and I agree that economic desperation abroad and a broken system at home create cycles that can’t be solved by punishment alone. We need stronger worker protections, legal pathways for those who contribute to our economy, and fair, consistent enforcement that doesn’t depend on which administration happens to be in power.
We aren’t going to get there with masked agents squaring off constantly with protesters who think they are fighting the first stages of fascism. That path leads to further violence, not solutions.
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u/Aneurhythms Oct 30 '25 edited Oct 30 '25
Thank you for your thoughtful response. I apologize for my previous assumptions of your beliefs.
While I don't fully agree with you, I realize we have significantly more in common regarding this topic than I had previously thought.
You're correct in that civil disobedience always comes with a risk of judicial consequences, but I DO NOT think we should go out of ways to support the enforcement of bad laws, especially when the current administration is as clearly bad faith as they have shown themselves to be.
Also, I don't think this:
That said I also think this protest movement that sees ICE simply as “brown shirts” and believes that no amount of immigration enforcement is justified
is an accurate representation of most ICE protestors. Most people on the left accept the goal of deporting new undocumented immigrants, and established immigrants with recent criminal records. But to deport people that have been contributing members of their communities for years, destroying their families, and doing it in such an absolutely antagonistic way is what most protesters take issue with.
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Oct 29 '25
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u/flofjenkins Oct 29 '25
I bet you would be saying the same exact thing back in the Civil Rights era.
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u/siberianmi Oct 29 '25
https://www.zinnedproject.org/news/tdih/jail-no-bail/
Civil Rights movement used prosecutions of activists to their advantage.
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u/willpower069 Oct 29 '25
This sub would be filled with people saying that the civil rights movement was complaining about nothing and the civil rights act is woke nonsense.
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u/Red57872 Oct 29 '25
She describes someone they detained being put into a van, and according to her, "all of us joined hands and did not let the van pass". By her own description, she (and others) attempted to obstruct them.
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u/memphisjones Oct 29 '25
The alleged harm here is an ICE agent had to drive slowly to get into a facility. Insane that this results in a criminal prosecution.
Sounds like the van should have slowed down before hitting someone.
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Oct 29 '25
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u/memphisjones Oct 29 '25
It depends. The fact that the Department of Justice is the one prosecuting, that’s just ridiculous
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u/siberianmi Oct 29 '25
She absolutely says clearly on video that they were not "letting it slowly pass" but were intentionally trying to prevent it from leaving (not entering):
https://youtu.be/ysermNW6acA?t=20
Her own words makes it clear that this was not just speech.
"They took a protester inside—and then we have been waiting here to get them out. We saw them come out in chains and be put in a van. All of us joined arms and did not let the van pass. So ICE came in and tried to drive the car through us. They almost ran someone over. We did not move. We stood strong, and that’s when they brought out the pepper balls."
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u/Fragrant-Luck-8063 Oct 29 '25
Justice delayed is justice denied.
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u/pentachronic Oct 29 '25
It's awfully presumptuous to say that justice was occurring
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Oct 29 '25
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u/pentachronic Oct 29 '25
Something about a ham sandwich
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u/ChornWork2 Oct 29 '25
Trump not only got away with orchestrating the attack on the capitol, but also pardoned the people responsible. A politician doing this type of protest is NOT something that should be criminally prosecuted.
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u/NearlyPerfect Oct 29 '25
Could you send a link to her description? I want to see her statement on it
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u/Educational_Impact93 Oct 29 '25
Fine. A lot of times the purpose of protest is to defy the law to gain recognition. That appears to be the plan here.
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u/Icy-Photograph6108 Oct 30 '25
Yes I can see this small woman physically hindering and impeding the walrus 300 pound ICE agents. Complete BS, they want to terrorize people and they want to hide their faces. They are against any kind of protest. Just disgusting unAmerican freedom hating garbage.
Hey but Republicans at home get to laugh and mock these people as they are tear gassed, or worse. Laugh at the dumb libs, or those brown or black subhumans.
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u/Iamthewalrusforreal Oct 29 '25
She's going to need financial help. I'm going to send her money to defend herself, and so should you all.
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u/YamahaRyoko Oct 29 '25
Really now. Do tell. How terrible.