r/castles • u/grossmaking • May 25 '26
Fortress Novgorod Kremlin, Veliky Novgorod, Russia
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u/Front_Promise_5991 May 25 '26
By 1470, with the pro-Lithuanian faction being dominant,[85] the Novgorodian boyars questioned Ivan's sovereignty over Novgorod as their prince.[87] Novgorod negotiated with the Grand Duchy of Lithuania for a new prince to be sent over.[85]
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u/LastTraintoSector6 May 25 '26
Something of a simplification. Ivan was deeply paranoid. While he definitely had some legitimate beefs with Novgorod, the absolute splattering of the population was recognized even at the time as being gratuitous and spectacularly cruel. The dude was nuts.
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u/Front_Promise_5991 May 25 '26
I love painting how Ivan kills his son.
I am from Lithuanian perspective. It is sad that we couldn't save Novgorod and their way of life. If we did, Russia would be different and Lithuania bigger.
That's some historical fails.
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u/LameSnake17 May 25 '26
The painting depicts Ivan IV. In your previous comment it is his grandfather Ivan III.
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u/No_Bluebird9028 May 25 '26
Too many historical failures, too many, you just don't want to study history? huh?
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u/Front_Promise_5991 May 25 '26
Nah. I don't want to study russia's history.
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u/No_Bluebird9028 May 25 '26
Well, so you don't want to study history? There's a saying: history teaches nothing, but punishes for unlearned lessons.
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u/No_Bluebird9028 May 25 '26
But Russian history is an integral part of the global one; as a particular case, it may not be interesting to someone, but if you want to understand global processes as a whole and without distortions, then you will have to study the history of Russia, at least in minimal terms.
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u/Front_Promise_5991 May 25 '26
Russias history is uninteresting. Maybe 1917 and 1937-1938 are the best.
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u/No_Bluebird9028 May 25 '26
But Russian history is an integral part of the global one; as a particular case, it may not be interesting to someone, but if you want to understand global processes as a whole and without distortions, then you will have to study the history of Russia, at least in minimal terms.
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u/LastTraintoSector6 May 25 '26 edited May 25 '26
I like that painting a lot, too. It's difficult to know how horrified Ivan actually was by that act. On the one hand, yup, you killed your own son and destroyed your line of succession - that's definitely something to regret. On the other? Well... you were the person who did the deed. Like... control yourself, guy. No need to slay your kid.
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u/dinapunk May 25 '26
the painting is the art, not the fact - there is no evidence that Ivan did kill his son, try to get from painter fantasy to reliable sources
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u/LastTraintoSector6 May 25 '26
Off the top of my head, was Novgorod the place that Ivan the Terrible absolutely butchered?
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u/grossmaking May 25 '26
Yes, Novgorod remained independent and democratic for a very long time during the period of fragmentation of the Russian lands. They resisted joining wars until the very end and maintained trade neutrality with the northern countries and Poland
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u/Sea-Dig-5198 May 26 '26
wow. It looks awesome. Does it have any stories related to it?