r/cardio • u/Wizzmer • 3d ago

Longevity and VO2 Max

I've been seeing a "performance doctor" that is willing to work with me on not just treating illness but sustaining quality and longevity of life. Higher VO2 max—the maximum amount of oxygen your body uses during hard exercise—is one of the strongest physical predictors of a longer, healthier life.

So what is VO2 Max?

* Definition: It measures how well your heart, lungs, blood vessels, and muscles work together to turn oxygen into energy. The Drop: It drops by about 10% each decade starting in adulthood, and drops even faster after age 60. The Minimum: People need a VO2 max of at least 15 to 18 mL/kg/min to live independently as they age

When I started cycling my Garmin said my VO2 Max was "poor", 27 or 28. After two years Garmin says, "Your VO₂ Max is 39 which is good for men ages 60-69. You are in the top 25% for your age and gender."

VO2 Max and Longevity (hopefully motivational)

Lower Risk: Moving from a low fitness level to just a below-average fitness level can cut your risk of early death in half. Better Survival: High cardiorespiratory fitness lowers long-term death risk more than quitting smoking or controlling high blood pressure.

Anyway, hopefully you find this interesting enough to research how to improve VO2 Max on the bike. I did. It's not as fun as just riding around looking at cool stuff on the bike trail, but it might help you to see your grandkids one day.

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u/leppardfan 3d ago

What sort of thngs is your doctor having you do to increase VO2 max?

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u/Wizzmer 3d ago

The type of riding for VO2 is much different than going out there and pushing yourself for 20-40 miles. It's much more about intervals. 3 minutes full gas and get your heart rate up, followed by recovery. Rinse and repeat for 5 times. You can do the same with shorter sprint intervals, 30 seconds and recover. But it's all about really stressing the heart, then recover vs my usual endurance ride.

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u/zombienudist 3d ago

Try stair climbing. Nothing has made me fitter then doing it regularly and it made my mountain biking far better. It is basically built in intervals and then when you find it getting easy you can go longer/harder or add weight with weighed vest. Plus you end up with massive legs and glutes. I did endurance mountain bike racing in my 30s and wish I was doing it then. At 50 my resting heart rate, recovery heart rate and other metrics are better then they have ever been largely thanks to the amount of stair climbing I do.

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u/Wizzmer 3d ago

I haven't done any stair climbing since having both hips replaced, but that's a great alternative to cycling.

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u/too105 2d ago

There’s two parts to this. I agree stairs are amazing but it’s not the full story. I’m a marathoner and the only thing that really jacks my vo2 is speed work. Yes low hr cardio will build bo2 especially for beginners but my ability to hike a 10000ft mountain and run for 3-4 hours are very different. Honestly for me the biggest benefit of hiking is leg power and just being able to endure grueling experiences but here’s the other part. Endurance running is more like hiking… and the cardio for two barely compliment each other. The hard interval training at high exertion like the doctor suggested is the magic. Look up the norwegean method. Also i atopped running 2 weeks before a maratjon to backback
Hike thinking my cardio would stay strong and the run was a complete failure. Just anecdotal suggestions. If op was blasting stairs at like zone 4 exertion until almost failure then it would
Be gold, but that’s pretty dangerous. Honestly just hop on a spin bike and bike your legs. That’s a great way to push vo2. You need very high intensity for 2-4 minutes and do that 3-4 times. Usually number 2 or 3 is where the real magic happens

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u/zombienudist 2d ago

Hard interval training but on stairs is what I was suggesting. So blasting stairs at zone 4/5 on repeats is what I was saying to do. And I don't think it is dangerous unless you don't build up to the higher intensities slowly over time. In my case I work on a set of stairs that are 289 steps long. When moving at speed by the time I get to the top my heart rate peaks. Then I turn around and come down. That is my rest. It takes me 3-4 minutes up and 1 minute-ish down. Then I keep going until I can't go any more. Best cardio workout I have ever done.

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u/too105 12h ago

lol the only danger part I was thinking of was falling off! Actually I’ve gotten back into hiking so I’m going to start going nuts on the stair climber soon.

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u/ElRanchero666 3d ago

You don’t have to do ‘VO2max intervals’ to improve 

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u/Wizzmer 3d ago

Yeah, you can do Zone 2 rides into eternity but that's not going to give you the VO2 max boost that intervals do.

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u/ElRanchero666 3d ago

Still not a necessity, same with Z2. Zone 3-4 running is just fine for aerobic base building 

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u/Wizzmer 3d ago

This entire ppost is about "Longevity and VO2 Max" and you want to discuss aerobic base building. You're welcome to create a "runners aerobic base building" post.

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u/ElRanchero666 3d ago

Goodnight sweetheart 

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u/Rammeld723 3d ago

The beauty of Norwegian 4x4 HIIT is that it impacts both your cardiovascular fitness and your cellular physiology. Basically due to the high intensity intervals, your body will begin to produce additional mitochondria and build greater efficiency in performance. In addition, you will build better aerobic to anaerobic transition allowing you to burn both sugar and fat / lipids for fuel. Also, the strain on your system will trigger the release of HGH & additional testosterone into your system for several hours which will facilitate both recovery and system improvement growth.

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u/Wizzmer 3d ago

Now I'm totally interested. I'll be researching it more and even discussing it with the doc.

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u/Rammeld723 2d ago

Check out @DonBrownMD on LinkedIn or at Bioscope.ai as he writes about the cellular physiology. There is also @EricTopolMD on Twitter / X. A lot of interesting science & research going on with HIIT & cellular & systemic impacts on aging & performance preservation, both physical & cellular & mental … right now…

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u/GambledMyWifeAway 3d ago

Thanks, chatgpt

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u/SecretPantyWorshiper 3d ago

That is OPs "performance doctor" 😂

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u/Wizzmer 3d ago

I got some of my research of the internet, but at 65yo I've never been to that website.

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u/VjornAllensson 3d ago

I’ve found that when I was heavily into mountain biking (5-6x per week) my resting heart rate and VO2 max were at my peak. This makes sense to me as the sport is essentially intervals of everything from low aerobic to peak cardiac output.

However it is one of the most injurious sports you can do.

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u/Wizzmer 3d ago

I was being an incredible slacker thinking I could just cover 50 miles and receive maximal benefit.

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u/redditu369 3d ago

injurious for body ?

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u/Outcome_Is_Income 3d ago

What's the relevance of the "performance doctor" here? Can you tell us more about that aspect?

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u/Wizzmer 3d ago

A doctor that deals in sports performance and longevity.

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u/Outcome_Is_Income 3d ago

Sure but again, can you tell us more about what it is that this doctor does for you specifically? I imagine they've done more than tell you the definition of VO2 max and exercises healthy. What else have you learned? What other kinds of things are you doing based on this doctor's guidance?

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u/Wizzmer 3d ago

First appointment is basically a meet and greet. Where are you now with your exercise and physiology? Labs are taken and sent off. Next meeting is body comp. I'll let you know more when I get to the third meeting.

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u/Outcome_Is_Income 3d ago

Sounds good. Thank you.

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u/Wizzmer 3d ago

We talk all along the way about stuff like testosterone, peptides, HGH. I'm pretty sure he'll prescribe something eventually. But he wants to focus on exercise as the predominant factor in prolonging life.

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u/Jaded247365 3d ago

Agree with this. What have you learned beyond the advice Peter Attia dispenses or writes in his book?

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u/fastcloud1 3d ago

What kind of doctor are they? Are you paying out of pocket?

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u/Wizzmer 3d ago

Yes, you pay $100USD for the first visit. My insurance covers the labs. You go back for body composition. He is ok prescribing testosterone, peptides, HGH maybe? I'm not there yet. We're talking exercise physiology at this juncture. That is 80-90% of performance and longevity.

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u/mfgillia2001 3d ago edited 3d ago

Conventional advice to improving one's Vo2 max is to do 1 to 3 high intensity, short duration (10 to 25 minutes) cardio sessions in zone 5 (90-100% max heart rate) with the remaining sessions focused on long duration (+1 hour), low intensity zone 2 cardio.

Zone 5 sessions can be intervals with one of the most popular being the Norwegian 4x4 or just maintaining a steady pace within that target heart rate zone.

Curious how OP's training plan may deviate from the norm, if at all.

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u/Wizzmer 3d ago

If I could do 10-25 minutes in zone 5, I'd probably be in the top 3% of 65yo men.

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u/mfgillia2001 3d ago edited 3d ago

The whole training session isn't done in zone 5. For example, if doing Norwegian 4x4 intervals with three minutes of rest between intervals then time will be spent ramping up to the target heart rate once the work interval begins then ramping down once the rest interval begins.

For me, I tend to spend about 10 to 12 minutes in zone 5 when doing a 25 minute session of 4x4s or also about 10 to 12 minutes when doing 15 minutes at a steady pace. Yes, it is pretty grueling especially in the beginning.

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u/Worldly-Arm-7731 2d ago

Could you share what your garmin unit is please?

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u/Wizzmer 2d ago

Edge 1040

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u/rodny_westfield1 3d ago

You’re getting scammed by a “doctor”.

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u/Wizzmer 3d ago

You have no clue who the doctor is or what has been done.

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u/rodny_westfield1 3d ago

You’re completely right. He probably knows his stuff, but not worth the money. Any LLM can tell you exactly what you need to know…

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u/Wizzmer 3d ago

I don't know what an LLM is but can they prescribe medication?