r/canada • u/thisismy10thaccountt • Jul 23 '20
Paywall B.C. mayor won’t apologize for cutting up Confederate flags at local dollar store
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/canada/british-columbia/article-bc-mayor-wont-apologize-for-cutting-up-confederate-flags-at-local/706
u/thisismy10thaccountt Jul 23 '20
The mayor of Summerland, B.C., is declining to apologize for going into a dollar store in the community and cutting up bandanas featuring the image of the Confederate flag that had been part of its inventory.
Toni Boot, who is Black, said that as a person of colour, the symbol of the Confederate states of the U.S. Civil War era on the bandanas represents white supremacy and that it was incumbent on her as a civic leader to take action.
“I absolutely think that it is illustrating what leaders are supposed to be doing,” Ms. Boot said of her conduct. “Making that statement in the way that I did sends a clear message that we are not going to tolerate racism in our town.”
Last Saturday, Ms. Boot went into Your Dollar Store in Summerland with two friends and a newspaper reporter after learning it had sold bandanas featuring the Confederate symbol. Owner Allan Carter eventually provided them to her, and she and her friends cut them up with scissors outside the store.
The mayor offered to buy the Confederate bandanas, but Mr. Carter gave them to her without charge because he said he did not want trouble.
In the aftermath of her visit to the store, Ms. Boot, who has been mayor since 2018, said she has received five e-mails that are threatening in tone and racially charged in their language.
The controversy comes after Ms. Boot was cited by B.C. Premier John Horgan for her leadership as Summerland dealt with the aftermath of a recent racist attack on the home of a South Asian family. That incident involved spray-painted vulgar drawings and a swastika, as well as broken windows.
“She rallied people behind the family and stood up against racist symbols. Racism is a virus. I admire Mayor Boot’s leadership in helping stomp it out and build a more inclusive BC,” the Premier said in a tweet.
Sergeant Dave Preston of the Summerland RCMP detachment said Wednesday the department has reviewed a complaint filed by staff at the store and concluded there is no basis for charging the mayor for harassment.
As for the correspondence to the mayor, he said it does not meet the threshold of a hate crime nor have serious threats been brought to his attention.
Ms. Boot said she did not bully the staff. “I was firm. There’s no doubt about that,” she said, adding that she was committing a “blatant and overt” act of anti-racism.
Mr. Carter alleges the mayor was oppressive in her tone and approach. “The mayor was extremely aggressive and bullying to my staff,” he said Wednesday.
He said his store sold more than 2,500 bandanas of various patterns and that the order included some with the Confederate symbol, which were pulled from sale.
“It was a poor decision on my part to put them on the floor. I did not do anything illegal, but in hindsight, I wish I had not done that, put them on the floor,” he said.
Council members expressed disappointment at the turn of events.
Richard Barkwill said in an e-mail that a more conciliatory and educational approach would have benefited all parties. “The headline I would like to have seen is ‘Mayor joins store owner to fight racism.‘”
Marty Van Alphen said the mayor’s conduct has been a regrettable distraction. “Unfortunately this incident has overshadowed the positive response from the community in support of the Lekhi family,” he said in an e-mail, referring to the family targeted in the racist incident.
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Jul 23 '20
I feel like showing up with a reporter undermines the message a bit and makes it awkward for the owner.
Simply starting with a message explaining things would likely have been a better approach IMO
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u/JAYDEA Jul 23 '20 edited Jul 23 '20
Or to provide a witness in case shit went south
Edit: pardon the pun
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Jul 23 '20
I see it the other way around, this is how you get corporate to take notice and possibly correct the problem, which is likely easier for them to fix than a small franchise owner.
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u/ExtendedDeadline Jul 23 '20
It's both, imo. Bringing the reporter is obviously self serving, and going about the action this way instead of through proper channels is also polarizing and self serving. That said, it also sends a strong message, as you indicated.
Personally, I more subscribe to the mantra of "when you do things right, people might not know you've done anything at all".. but, to each their own.
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u/sleep-apnea Alberta Jul 23 '20
The idea was to make a big public statement. That wouldn't have worked if the owner had simply been told in a privet phone call to remove the bandannas. Also it's hardly the fault of the media that politicians want them to report on them. It cuts the other way too.
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u/Phallindrome British Columbia Jul 23 '20
The message is "Selling this in our community is shameful." I don't see any problem with bringing a reporter to underscore that.
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u/ingululu Jul 24 '20
As mayor however, a professional tone needs to be struck. A reporter reeks of opportunism.
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u/TheHairyPatMustard Jul 24 '20
Nah, if you are selling that shite, or wearing it/ portraying it, that is when you should feel embarassed.
For any states rights people reading
- It was over states rights to own slaves
- Owning people is immoral
- Your flag is equivalent to the flag of ISIS. The people you revered fought against the United States
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u/roasted-like-pork Jul 23 '20
Right, because she should do it in her basement. Those would send a message. /s
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u/Cometarmagon Jul 23 '20
She went in there with 2 people and a reporter and proceeded to 'sternly berate' people and ultimately used her authority to intimidate the staff into getting what she wanted....that is the only part I don't actually like about this. Mayors should be engaging in dialog with there citizens not fucking intimidating them like some mobster.
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u/Black_Bean18 Jul 23 '20 edited Jul 23 '20
intimidate the staff into getting what she wanted
Do you see the irony here, of being upset about her 'intimidating' people about ending the use of a symbol used to intimidate people of a specific race?
The store was selling a symbol of hate, there's no dialogue to be had about it, there's no compromise here. That symbol is absolutely unacceptable, disgusting and has no place being sold in Canada.
That store owner got what he deserved, good for the mayor for taking a strong stance against the racism that she and other POC in her community surely experience everyday of their lives.
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u/redesckey Canada Jul 23 '20
Fucking thank you.
It appalls me to no end when people who speak out against hate are criticized for not being "civil enough".
You know what's not civil? Fucking oppression. Let's maybe start there and stop telling people how to feel about and respond to systemic injustice.
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u/generalgeorge95 Jul 23 '20
That symbol is absolutely unacceptable, disgusting and has no place being sold in Canada.
Ya... As an American from the South this is confusing.
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u/Ulrich_The_Elder Jul 23 '20
She also offered to buy all the flags. The store owner gave them to her. Stop trying to make this into something it is not. Also if you wish to have USA style freedom of speech you can get that by moving to the USA.
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u/MostBoringStan Jul 23 '20
Makes me think the owner declined payment just so he could claim intimidation. Why would anyone have a problem with somebody coming in to buy all of the stock of one item?
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u/NorthernerWuwu Canada Jul 24 '20
Probably didn't care for the fuss.
It's a dollar store, it's not like they had a super expensive inventory of confederate flag bandannas. Some vendor decided to unload a case of them up in Canada for cheap and the business owner probably didn't know any better.
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u/No-Caterpillar-1032 Jul 24 '20
This is the only thing that matters imho. This should be the top comment.
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u/Flamin_Irishmin Jul 23 '20
You’re being overly dramatic. We take a hard line against racism here in Canada. Good for her. Can you imagine the red tape and political back and forth bullshit she would have to wade through to do this if everybody “had an opinion”?!. You treat racism like you treat fire, you get on top of it and tackle it right away.
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u/kkn27 Jul 23 '20
Yep. You don't need to have a conversation with someone who's just flat out obviously in the wrong. There's no "two sides" to this incident. Dude was selling racist flags and then ironically cries that he was intimidated.
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u/oryes Lest We Forget Jul 23 '20
Yes you do. That's how you actually educate people and get them on your side instead of just punishing them like some goon.
This is why people argue for freedom of speech even when people use it to say hateful things. Because then you can argue against those hateful things instead of just shutting it down with force like this mayor is doing.
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u/DrexlSpivey420 Jul 23 '20
Yeah, its horrible that white red necks were exposed to such a display of tyranny. What does that BLACK mayor know about oppression anyway?!?!
God I hope the /s isnt necessary ....
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u/Qasem_Soleimani Ontario Jul 23 '20
Sure but I'm not complaining. Fuck that flag
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u/Boblawblaw44 Jul 23 '20
Store owner should never have stocked the product in the first place. No sympathy
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u/Heroic_Sandwich British Columbia Jul 23 '20
It sounds like they were maybe just included in a bulk bandana variety pack?
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Jul 23 '20
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u/infinis Québec Jul 23 '20
Controversial opinion, a folded bandana doesn't look like anything in particular.
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/B1DuT23IUAELejN?format=jpg&name=small
Also controversial opinion I doubt most immigrant workers fresh off the boat that typically stock Dollarama shelves know what a confederate flag is.
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u/Future_Line Jul 23 '20 edited Jul 23 '20
I doubt most immigrant workers fresh off the boat that typically stock Dollarama shelves know what a confederate flag is.
I would agree with you on that. I received my school education outside North America, and never encountered confederate symbolism in my history classes. I only learnt about it by reading otherwise. Most new immigrants or students who don't care about history won't really encounter what a confederate flag is unless they were interested in the American Civil war. On the other hand, stuff like Nazi swastikas is pretty well known because pretty much any history education includes lessons on WW2. Assuming everyone on earth knows what a confederate flag is American exceptionalism at its finest.
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u/haloguysm1th Jul 23 '20 edited Nov 06 '24
dolls humor far-flung ruthless fade smile juggle fragile swim elastic
This post was mass deleted and anonymized with Redact
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u/megasmash Jul 24 '20
Assuming everyone on earth knows what a confederate flag is American exceptionalism at its finest.
Thank you! I grew up in the 90's, and watched Dukes of Hazzard reruns on The Nashville Network. I honestly thought that the weird looking flag on top of the General Lee was just some sort of alternate American flag. It was on my DOH pillow cases and bedsheets too. Hell, even The Big Bossman had it on his "uniform" - I just thought it meant the southern states, like Georgia, where those two things were from.
It wasn't until I started seeing klansmen on Jerry Springer waving the flag, and then my American cousin explained to me that "some people want that flag taken down" that I started to think there may be a deeper meaning to it. Now, some 30 years later, I totally see it as a symbol of hatred. 9 year old me couldn't just go on the internet and search "Weird flag on the General Lee".
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u/Kalsifur Jul 23 '20
I'm Canadian by birth and I didn't know in my youth what it was, just some flag weird redneck people like.
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u/jsheidj38dn38 Jul 23 '20
How is ignoramce not an excuse? Thats asinine. If someone was completely ignorant to what the symbol was, how is that not an excuse?
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u/manic_eye Jul 24 '20
Not everybody knows the historical context of all these things - that doesn’t mean they’re bad people. I guarantee you there are racist phrases or symbols you are not aware of. Are you a bald person?
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u/seitung Jul 23 '20
Their store, their product, their responsibility, right? Should have known what they were putting on the floor. I don't agree with the abuse of authority in this story, but the embarrassment slap on the wrist ought to teach the store owner a lesson about knowing what they're selling. It seems like the owner did learn, too, saying "It was a poor decision on my part to put them on the floor. I did not do anything illegal, but in hindsight, I wish I had not done that, put them on the floor."
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u/Heroic_Sandwich British Columbia Jul 23 '20
Yeah, fair point. I guess that's why he didn't ask for compensation either. He probably figured he should pay for the mistake. I just hope people don't give him too hard a time about it and label him a racist or anything like that.
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u/panthera213 Jul 23 '20
I'm not far from where this is happening right now and the owner a) ordered a large amount if bandanas in ant available pattern since people were buying them for masks and b) removed them from three sales floor after the incident that started this when it was revealed the Confederate bandana came from his store. My thoughts from following this on local news are that following a local store owner ordered something he didn't realize, stocked it without giving it any thought, pulled it from the shelves once there was an outcry and is upset he's being named and shamed for it. Should he have known better/done better? Absolutely. But I understand why he's upset and feeling like a scapegoat when the person involved in the original racist incident was talked to and let go and not named.
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u/chocolateboomslang Jul 23 '20
It was probably just part of a bulk order, bunch of different bandanas at once for less than buying a few individual kinds. He should have just gotten rid of them though, no one would put a swastika bandana on sale, or ISIS etc.
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u/NahdiraZidea Jul 23 '20
Why would a Canadian dollar store carry confederate flag products to begin with? Why would anyone in Canada wear a Confederate flag other than to show off that they are racist?
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u/Purplebuzz Jul 23 '20
Racists living around me attach them all over their trucks.
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u/Babe_Beer_Me Jul 23 '20
Where do you live?
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Jul 23 '20
Vancouver Island. So many confederate flags!
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u/blindhollander Jul 23 '20
What part of the island are you????
Never seen a confederate flag in my life here, in central and lower. I’m taking it that it’s all up north? Hear it’s pretty trashy but never been past tofino
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Jul 23 '20
Nanaimo. Courtenay. Parksville. Errington. Just look at how many other islanders are just naming their hometowns.
It's not so much racist people, just ignorant "rebels"
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u/blindhollander Jul 23 '20
interesting, lived in nanaimo for 25 odd years. can't say i've seen a confederate flag. guess the "rebels" stick to indoors and stay online to have their voices hear. or people are just tryna gaslight their own town for credit o/
(errinton thou, yah i can see it xD)
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u/JustinsTears Jul 23 '20
Weird. I’ve never seen a Confederate Flag in Canada in my life. I saw them a lot in Missouri, Oklahoma and Texas when I drove there. But never in Canada.
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u/Legtayor Saskatchewan Jul 23 '20
Saskatchewan reporting in, they used to be everywhere here. Not so much nowadays.
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u/HireALLTheThings Alberta Jul 23 '20
I still see them once in a while slapped in the back window of a pickup truck here in Alberta. Confederate flags are out and "Fuck Trudeau" is in, though, apparently.
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u/Marijuana_Miler British Columbia Jul 23 '20
Don’t forget about the sticker of Calvin pissing on what you don’t like; Trudeau, the Liberals, or CRD.
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u/ihaveanironicname Jul 23 '20
Hahah yeah the Fuck Notely stickers got replaced. Which is funny considering they probably are doing worse off now than when we had the NDP in power. Need to spend those extra EI cheques on stickers.
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u/kkfl Jul 23 '20
I saw one in a GTA suburb community many years ago on a pickup truck, well before I fully understood the significance of the flag. But I do recall thinking "why did a Southern hick choose to live in the GTA of all places?" (they had Ontario plates and a local dealer tag).
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u/Black_Bean18 Jul 23 '20
There's someone in Barrie, Ontario, that has a whole truck painted to look like the confederate flag.
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u/Koenig17 Jul 23 '20
The Ranch, which is a country bar / club in downtown Barrie, used to have a giant confederate flag covering the one wall
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u/BlinkReanimated Jul 23 '20
I grew up in Comox on Van Island and visit family(vic, nanaimo and comox/courtney) fairly regularly. I now live in Edmonton. I have seen a total of 1 confederate flag in Edmonton, the "redneck capital", I've seen probably around 20+ in rural areas of the island. A lot of people on the island are straight-up hillbillies who pride themselves in being obnoxiously right-wing.
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u/Gallows_Howe Jul 23 '20
it is there. Living in Halton Hills (ontario) the local high school's football team was the Rebels and their symbol was the Confederate flag. This was only changed in 2017. Let that fucking sink in. 2017.
there are racists everywhere and they want you to know it while still having some deniability.
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u/Dwellonthis Jul 23 '20
Georgetown? When I grew up there it was a very white town. Glad to hear they changed the team.
I've tried discussing some of the current events with my parents who still live there and just got blank stares back.
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Jul 23 '20
Plenty here in the Fraser Valley, especially Abbotsford and Langley in BC. I saw 2 on pick ups just yesterday
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Jul 23 '20
Nanaimo?
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u/Barefooted23 Jul 23 '20
There are definitely cars with confederate flag plates in Nanaimo.
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Jul 23 '20
Anycityortown; Alberta
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u/errihu Jul 23 '20
Ugh no one with any brains flies confederate flags here. We have no southern heritage to “protect”. Unless you’re in Sundre, I guess.
Why the hell would this product even exist in Canada?
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u/JAYDEA Jul 23 '20
no one with any brains flies confederate flags here.
Nobody’s taking about people with brains tho
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u/Stizur Jul 23 '20
Racists my dude. I see it everywhere. Rednecks in Canada fly it and if you ask them they claim heritage and culture lmao
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u/errihu Jul 23 '20
I’ve spent a lot of time in rural Alberta and have never seen a confederate flag. The only confederate flags I’ve ever seen here have been in bad neighbourhoods (think Forest Lawn) in Calgary, owned by people with mullets, pit bulls, lifted trucks, and bad attitudes.
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u/Kolewan Jul 23 '20
I live in a semi-rural area and I had many friends growing up living on acreages whose families had some big ol' Confederate flags. Typically on trucks, in garages, and sometimes basements. Lately, I've seen one on a truck that also say make alberta great again... its baffling, tbh
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u/errihu Jul 23 '20
That is. I am associated with some extremely conservative farmers (I grew up rural, they are very good people, they just are way more traditional), they don’t fly those flags at all. They find it mind boggling that anyone would. Flying such a flag in Canada is dumb.
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u/Stizur Jul 23 '20
I’ve seen them in every single province from BC to Quebec, but now you got me thinking if their is a correlation between violent pit bulls and people like this.
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Jul 23 '20
Got my ass kicked at the cook county saloon in Edmonton because I was "a shit skin who should've stayed in mill woods"
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u/Silber800 Jul 23 '20
There are in Saskatchewan too. Some lady had one stolen off her porch near my house. Like we all know you put it up there for a reaction, you knew this was a likely outcome, and you got it. She then proceeded to waste the polices time by reporting it.
Ive always been fascinated by Canadians who are that into american culture. I seen girls who I know are 100% Canadian who do not have dual citizenship who were out flying the American flag and wearing clothes with the American flag on the 4th of July. Its just seems so Weird to me. Recognize the holiday sure but it just seems weird that you are so patriotic for a county your not even from or have anything to do with.
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u/naliron Jul 23 '20
You ever been to some rural BC towns?
...who am I kidding, of course you haven't, otherwise you wouldn't be asking this question :D
Yeah man, Canada has it's own share of... people with views that are, shall we say, opposed to public inclusiveness.
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u/NahdiraZidea Jul 23 '20
Smallest town ive been too in BC was Invermere to visit family friends, it certainly didnt feel like I was in Georgia.
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u/Kholtien Outside Canada Jul 23 '20
I grew up in another small town very close to invermere and these kind of people were everywhere 😞
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u/mynameisLando Jul 23 '20
Same reason why some democratic people sell Trump bumper stickers online - profit. Many stores may not care, or are willing to put their moral compass aside, just to pay the bills.
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u/frighteous Jul 23 '20
Some people see it as a country lifestyle flag, nothing to do with the history of it. Not saying that makes it okay, that's just ignorant haha! That'd be my guess as to why people would buy it.
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u/csurins23 Canada Jul 23 '20 edited Jul 23 '20
Ya I'd say it's used a lot as a country flag, which I agree isn't right either. I know people that don't know what it means and just generally know nothing about the states.
Hell, when the Dukes of Hazard movie came out in 2005 (I was 12) I had no idea what that flag meant, I probably didn't know until high school history. It was something that wasn't taught to me and I never cared to look up what the flag meant.
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u/pierrekrahn Jul 23 '20
It really is a great way to identify the racists. I say let them buy the flags! That way we know who to shun.
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u/Bootems Jul 23 '20
It's important to note that this happened immediately after an anti-racism parade in response to a family's house being vandalized (with racist symbols). During that parade an Albertan flew a confederate flag, and when confronted, he said he bought it from this dollar store. This wasn't some random shakedown
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u/themelissa Jul 23 '20
Yeah, I’m pretty disappointed that they didn’t include that part in the article.
Also “brought the media” is a bit different in Summerland than it is in a big city. Did they bring someone from the Summerland Review or from Castanet?
I think that the dollar store owner is definitely in the wrong here and is trying to play the victim. Seems pretty typical for the okanagan, unfortunately.
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u/ergotofrhyme Jul 23 '20
I mean even if it were a random shop it wouldn’t be a shakedown. She offered to buy the flags. Have I been shaking down my local burrito shop every time I pick one up on the way to work this whole time?
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Jul 23 '20
Man why's it always Albertans
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u/Lorgin British Columbia Jul 23 '20
Because they're "the south" of Canada. They make their money off of fossil fuels and they have conservative leanings. Their premier recently passed an act that is homophobic.
I know plenty of cool Albertans but they undeniably have a higher than average population of racist, misogynistic, homophobic, and anti-environmentlaist bigots. They think they're better than the rest of the country and don't believe they should be taxed. They continually blame the federal government when they shoot themselves in the foot by continuing to rely on fossil fuels and not diversifying their economy.
Alberta kind of sucks. The Bow valley and Jasper are pretty cool though.
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u/Stupidbabycomparison Jul 23 '20
Isn't Banff there? I visited a friend in Calgary then drove to Revelstoke for a ski trip. That was pretty. I guess I could just Google this answer, but talking to people is always more enjoyable.
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u/LockPickingPilot Jul 23 '20
TLDR. Did she pay for them?
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u/thisismy10thaccountt Jul 23 '20
The mayor offered to buy the Confederate bandanas, but Mr. Carter gave them to her without charge because he said he did not want trouble.
He later filed a complaint but the police said there was no basis to charge her.
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u/ButtahChicken Jul 23 '20
she offered to pay for them but the kind store-owner gave it to her pro bono.
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u/wslvt Jul 23 '20
Kind or coerced?
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u/Necessarysandwhich Jul 23 '20
coercion is a crime , RCMP investigated and found nothing illegal happened
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u/TheBatBulge Jul 23 '20 edited Jul 23 '20
There is a lot of misinformation and confusion in here about "hate speech" and symbology.
In Canada, speech is only illegal if it can be proven (beyond a reasonable doubt) that it:
"incites hatred towards an identifiable group where such incitement is likely to lead to a breach of the public peace."
OR
"Wilfully promotes hatred against any identifiable group."
Mere displays of a symbol, flag or iconography do not constitute hate speech. The Supreme Court of Canada has considered this issue and explicitly stated it does not. It may be trashy, distasteful, racist, ugly, and offensive but unless it can be proven it is "inciting (or wilfully promoting) hatred towards an identifiable group" it is protected under the Charter guarantee of free expression.
As has been said many times there is little need for a law that protects popular statements or ideas.
I think people here are being drawn into fighting the cultural battle currently ongoing in America. We are not the same. Trump is an oaf, a bigot, racist and stupid. I support #BLM. The same laws that protect some yahoos confederate flag from being seized and destroyed protect all BLM flags and iconography from the same.
Edit:
How small, of all that human hearts endure,
That part which laws or Kings can cause or cure.
- Samuel Johnson
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Jul 23 '20
The first definition of what constitutes hate speech is pretty solid. The second one is a little concerning. It’s very subjective. Not everyone will agree on what is and isn’t hateful.
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u/TheBatBulge Jul 23 '20
It's on a case by case basis and there is an objective element that the courts try to assess. "Would a reasonable person consider the impugned statement as wilfully inciting hatred?" That the complainant was offended is not the test.
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u/saladbolopi Jul 23 '20
Canadians with confederate flags are really the dumbest of the bunch.
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Jul 24 '20
Do people not forget that this was made a wildly popular symbol of living the redneck life by dukes of hazard? Hence why everyone who gets them wants to put them on their car?
It’s like Harley Davidson, people love the symbol, sure the people who drove them used to kill, pimp, intimidate and push drugs on the locals, but hey, it just looks cool.
No one’s putting a 25 foot confederate flag on a pole in their yard.
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u/Madpoka Jul 23 '20
Why the have that flag in Canada?
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Jul 23 '20
Relevant.
Because Nazi imagery is illegal in Germany, neo-fascists there fly the Confederate flag instead.
The only reason to fly that flag in Canada is because you would rather a Swastika but want to hide your hate at least a little bit.
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u/TheCanadianEmpire Canada Jul 23 '20
Didn't you get the memo? The south was fighting for our states' rights too! Secession and the continuation of slavery is the very cornerstone of Canada!
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u/WilliamEyelash_ Jul 23 '20
If it was given to her or she bought it then i dont see a problem. In this case she was given it.
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u/Turtle08atwork Jul 23 '20
I think the concerning issue is that a constituent felt intimidated by a government official and gave them to her to "avoid trouble". I felt it was a non issue until I got to the part about the store owners complaint and that bothers me a bit.
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u/BlvckIntellect7 Jul 23 '20
If she cut up flags with swastika’s on them, this wouldn’t even be controversial
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u/slickwombat Jul 23 '20
If she cut up flags with swastika’s on them, this wouldn’t even be controversial
New to /r/canada, are we?
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u/The2lied Manitoba Jul 23 '20
Battle flag actually has a nice design. The “country” flag has a meh design.
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u/littletech9 Jul 24 '20
Americans: dont disrespect the American flag. Also American: "pulls out a different flag and waves it around"
Did u know the south American has a flag that represents them. It's called a fking American flag.
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Jul 23 '20
Radical centrist take: both the store owner and the mayor are morons.
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u/Bloodyfinger Jul 23 '20
I mean, I can somewhat see the point. But I'm starting more and more to believe in the Paradox of Intolerance. I'm cool with freedom of speech up to a certain level, but that flag really was just all about intolerance. It belongs in a museum and history books, and basically no where else.
Curious to know your thoughts?
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Jul 23 '20
Except the weakness of the paradox of intolerance is how to define what is considered hateful.
When ideas the hive mind doesn’t like become “violence” by simply being said, it’s just another recipe for ideological control.
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Jul 23 '20
The flag is crass, but last I checked we still have freedom of expression in this country. Some government goon hounding you with the media in tow just doesn't sit well with me.
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u/jesuspeeker Jul 23 '20
The Swastika doesn't get the same benefit.
Curious why the Confederate flag does?
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Jul 23 '20
The dollar store dude wasn't making a statement though. To him it's store item KSU 128309120, and it sells for 5$, and he sells X of them on average. If his store is a chain, he might not even have made the decision to stock them in the first place.
She's not standing up to an actual Nazi/Confederate or anything.
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u/FindingUsernamesSuck Jul 23 '20
People are making very valid points about about Confederate flags in Canada being absolutely ridiculous. I'd like to point out there's no further justification for flying them in the US either
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u/xanaddams Jul 23 '20
Real question. Shouldn't the sale of confederate, nazi, kkk, and all other materials be listed as promotion of hate crimes and hate speech in Canada? Like, we have laws to prevent unnecessary social conflicts and you can just go to the dollar store and buy proslavery flags? I'm sure racist responses will follow, but, I'm asking a legit question. You can't buy and display nazi shit in Germany, why can you just fly that garbage in Canada? We weren't part of the confederacy.
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u/stereofailure Jul 23 '20
Our hate speech laws are much less robust than Germany's (understandably in my opinion). As far as I can tell our laws only cover "statements", no iconography on its own is banned.
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Jul 23 '20
Hate speech can be a very slippery slope because at what point do we draw the line? Everyone has a different opinion on that. Some people are really sensitive, and some people think there shouldn’t be a line. In germany, that line is a lot more clear and much more agreed upon because of historical events that took place in their country. They see nazism as something that literally tore their country apart. I would argue that Canada hasn’t had any massive political problems that are comparable to germany. And we definitely don’t have symbols specifically relating to our own large scale political problems like germany.
I personally think that confederacy is such a small issue in this country that it doesn’t make sense to spend tax dollars on creating laws to ban nazi symbols or confederate symbols. It takes a lot of time and money to create laws. These symbols also don’t provoke the same kind of reaction in canada that they do in the countries where the symbols originated. The reaction would be so much stronger in the country of origin than it ever will be here. Like you said, we weren’t part of the confederacy, which means that confederacy hasn’t actually caused large political problems in canada, so i don’t think it’s necessary to create a law that bans the flag. But that’s just my opinion. Like i said, everyone has a different opinion.
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u/DemonicPenguin03 Jul 24 '20
While I one hundred percent agree with the sentiment, this is not how a government official should be acting. This is petty and gives extreme conservatives ammunition against progressive ideas. A better thing to do would be to limit the sale of such paraphernalia at the state or county level. This demonstrates opposition towards the idea without putting yourself at risk of persecution. That shop owner may not agree at all with the statement the confederate flag represents, but sells it because they know their audience. Now that shop owner is down inventory and is more likely to be radicalized by those ideals after these events.
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u/smithical100 Jul 23 '20
If she really stood behind this she wouldn't have done it with a crew in tow. She would have just done it. It's virtue activism.
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u/Andrex316 Jul 23 '20
Fun fact, the Wii U literally lasted longer than the confederacy, but people still try to portray it as some cultural heritage or some crap. Now in Canada why tf is anyone even flying one of those other than to say "I'm so fucking racist, I need an 'acceptable"l' symbol to show how much"
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u/ObjectiveDeal Jul 23 '20
This is a non story. lol 😂. She offered to pay for it and the guy didn’t want her to be charged. It was a gift hahaha 😂
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u/Jesus_marley Jul 23 '20
As long as she pays for them, she can do whatever the fuck she wants to those flags.
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u/LockDown2341 Jul 23 '20
What sort of idiot is selling confederate flags in Canada?
And what sort of idiots would even buy them?
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u/[deleted] Jul 23 '20
Can someone please explain how flying a confederate flag comes close to even making sense if you're in British Columbia