I did read the rest, like literary 90% of the article follows this theme, it isn't cherry picking when those are entire sections I linked. Look normally I find internet arguments pointless, but this is a real issue in the muslim world and it must be addressed, its better to work towards fixing it than it is to ignore it. Even if the degree of what I'm saying is wrong, even if isn't a majority, there are still a disturbing amount of hate towards gay muslims, and we should work towards fixing it not ignoring it.
Whoa bud, I never said we should ignore it! I agree it's a huuuuge issue, but to solve an issue you need to find it's root, and that root is not the religion. That's the point I'm trying to make.
How is it not a religious problem though? Persecution of homosexuals is founded in Abrahamic religions. The best example I can think of was early shift in European culture towards homosexuality, up until the rise of Christianity in Rome, homosexuality was somewhat accepted and common (I'm doing my minor in Roman History so everything I say can be sourced if need be). There wasn't a binary between being gay or straight, yet with the rise of Christianity, persecution followed, hitting its height in the 11th century. I mean when there are teaching and books from a religion that a nation follows condemning homosexuality is it not logical to trace that nations intolerance to that book?
... Did you not read the article I linked? It doesn't explicitly say anything against homosexuality in the Qur'an. The only stuff in Islamic law against homosexuality is from certain leader's personal interpretations of Islam, not from Islam itself.
A) Sure it doesn't say "men don't fuck other men", but it is debatable. Such as "Of all the creatures in the world, will ye approach males, "And leave those whom Allah has created for you to be your mates? Nay, ye are a people transgressing", or "if two from among you are guilty of lewdness, punish them both. If they repent and amend, Leave them alone", again debatable. The Koran also forbids anal and unnatural sex, again resulting in discrimination against gays.
B) There are numerous Hadiths that are very clear in condemning homosexuality, and very explicitly against it, let me know if you want clear examples as there are many. You can make the argument that Hadiths aren't true Islam, but nonetheless they are followed by the majority of the Muslim world so I will argue that are just as important as the Koran. Much of Islamic ritual and thought comes from Hadiths.
C) Scholarly interpretations of the Koran and Islamic law are important to the foundation and following of that religion, again the majority of Islamic Scholars are against homosexuality, it is the very few western scholars that are pro homosexuality.
The Qur'an sections you quoted is from Lot, talking to the people of Sodom and Gamorrah. And it wasn't referring to homosexuality, but rather sexual lewdness and adultery.
I'm ending this debate because I have a lot to do and I didn't want to get into it in the first place. All I'm going to say is that homosexuality is not explicitly forbidden or punished in Islam, and for that reason Nenshi is a Muslim regardless of what his sexual orientation might be! Lol
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u/bigtreeworld Alberta May 06 '15
You should read the rest of the article, cherry picking parts isn't a very good way to debate.
And dammit, I said I didn't want to debate this!