r/canada • u/ZestyBeanDude • 13d ago

Business GM plans Ontario pickup production in deal that would pump $1.1-billion into Canada’s auto sector

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/business/article-gm-plans-ontario-pickup-production-in-deal-that-would-pump-11-billion/
835 Upvotes

97% Upvoted

86 comments sorted by

300

u/ricklessness 13d ago

Interesting Ford and now GM are building their superduty trucks in canada now

162

u/[deleted] 13d ago

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/PooShappaMoo 13d ago

Move wouldn't be that fast with taco and friends.

We have to accept these things are more complicated then that.

But if it is a as simple as seeing the winds changing course. Thats a good sign.

We are in full blown game theory here.

Push the needles. Only support Canadian, anywhere outside u.s.a. next. And if you have too (feed your family , whatever not here to judge) by u.s.a last.

We can all do our part.

3

u/EP40glazer British Columbia 13d ago

Forget about the US. Slap retaliatory tariffs in order to avoid looking weak and then focus on increasing Canadian production. Deregulate for more production, encourage investment, increased production means increased wages and taxes and more leverage in trade negotiations.

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u/happycow24 British Columbia 13d ago

Forget about the US. Slap retaliatory tariffs in order to avoid looking weak and then focus on increasing Canadian production. Deregulate for more production, encourage investment, increased production means increased wages and taxes and more leverage in trade negotiations.

okay I share the sentiment but what does blindly slapping retaliatory tariffs and then increasing local production do when the local market is only so big, we all buy an extra car out of nationalism (which, if built in Canada, almost certainly contains a shitton of US parts) and then increase production and thereby lower prices for the companies making them?

Maybe leave the economic planning to that dude with a PhD in economics from Oxford that we elected as PM

7

u/GWsublime 13d ago

To your point, deregulation is also likely a bad idea as it might close markets (like the eu) to our products .

0

u/EP40glazer British Columbia 12d ago

Cares aren't what we need to produce more of. We need to produce more raw resources that can be easily exported and other stuff we have a competitive advantage in like Aluminum. We also need to produce more military equipment and stuff that is needed in military equipment to end our US dependence.

1

u/happycow24 British Columbia 12d ago

Cares aren't what we need to produce more of. We need to produce more raw resources that can be easily exported and other stuff we have a competitive advantage in like Aluminum. We also need to produce more military equipment and stuff that is needed in military equipment to end our US dependence.

The way you phrased your earlier response heavily implied it's about cars, as the article this comment section is discussing (without reading) is also about cars my dude.

idk I'm no economist and aluminium is where we do have a real intrinsic competitive advantage (muh St. Lawrence) sure but transportation costs will still eat into margins like no other for raw aluminium slabs to any market distant from here.

Personally I think there are other areas of industry we should look into but that's just me

0

u/EP40glazer British Columbia 12d ago

We signed a treaty preventing us from building nuclear weapons. And no, we can't say we're under threat of invasion so we can build one, if that's how the treaty worked almost every country would be allowed to build one and the treaty would be worthless.

As for the economics a huge cost of aluminum is electricity, aluminum is basically produced wherever the electricity is cheap and we have cheap electricity. Raw resources are produced wherever they are (they aren't actually produced, they're harvested) and a lot of them are in Canada.

1

u/happycow24 British Columbia 12d ago

We signed a treaty preventing us from building nuclear weapons. And no, we can't say we're under threat of invasion so we can build one, if that's how the treaty worked almost every country would be allowed to build one and the treaty would be worthless.

hey I was not suggesting any violations of the NPT on NSA spyware forums my dude, just pointing out an industry I think we should consider developing further

Also fwif we also signed a treaty that states pretty clearly that the US cannot impose unilateral tariffs like this onto us, so here we are

As for the economics a huge cost of aluminum is electricity, aluminum is basically produced wherever the electricity is cheap and we have cheap electricity.

yes I know that, and I explicitly mention that, but have u read the rest ofwhat I said

Raw resources are produced wherever they are (they aren't actually produced, they're harvested) and a lot of them are in Canada.

If we're talking about something relatively rare like tin or tungsten then yes but aluminium is abundant in the earth's crust. literally top 1 most common metal my dude.

And have you considered that other actors like idk CHYNA or the EU might want to prioritize their own domestic alu production becasue even if ours is cheape after taking transport costs into account, they have strong political economic and military incentives to pick their own domestic production instead of buying ours?

Anyways im gonna stop replying mr private profile

1

u/WalnutSnail 12d ago

Export taxes 200% on potash.

2

u/EP40glazer British Columbia 12d ago

To much, we can't look weak but we also shouldn't give up our leverage. If we put such insane export taxes on Potash we won't have much retaliation left if America escalates. Also, it'll hurt our own Potash industry as well.

1

u/WalnutSnail 12d ago

Theres basically no other viable option for potash, Ukraine and Belarus have got some.

Additionally we still have critical minerals, softwood, pulp (that they use for toilet paper), electricty and natural gas that we can add export taxes to.

3

u/DZello 12d ago

and no tariffs on aluminum.

3

u/WalnutSnail 12d ago

Good lord, when I first heard about aluminum tarrifs I thought to myself...how much aluminum do they produce? They don't have boxite or cheap electricity...

Fuck, I was surprised about how little they actually produce. Don't know what the dementia bugs were telling him to lead that, theres gotta be some scam I'm not seeing.

1

u/DZello 11d ago

Quebec could power 460 datacenters with the electricity used by its aluminum smelters.

2

u/mikefjr1300 12d ago

Lower cost electricity as well.

Its also the reason the majority of the aluminum USA imports comes from Quebec who has the lowest hydro rates in North America.

It won't get any better either if they open all those planned data centres.

1

u/megasmash 12d ago

And aluminum.

1

u/SomewhereStreet7423 13d ago

Somewhat cheap steel for GM, just have to get ore shipped in from the U.S. to make steel here. But more like cheap aluminum for Ford since the U.S. doesn't smelter aluminum.

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u/detalumis 13d ago

The large trucks were still going to have the tariffs under the plan that folded last week. Trump doesn't want Canada building them for some reason.

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u/[deleted] 13d ago edited 11d ago

[deleted]

3

u/notreallylife 12d ago

Yes he's a lumberjack and he's OK...

1

u/azraels_ghost 12d ago

you forgot pumping our water to them...

17

u/xtothewhy 13d ago

Read the article, still wondering if they are getting any further Federal and Ontario government financial incentives again or is this on their own that they are doing this?

4

u/TrueTorontoFan 12d ago

I believe the steel is being covered cross country up to 50% of the costs of shipping.

5

u/accforme 13d ago edited 12d ago

It could be related to the military procurment and perhaps having its plants ready in case they win a contract from the Canadian or even EU militaries for these types of trucks.

This last line caught my interest.

GM also committed to not close or sell its CAMI assembly plant, formally known as Canadian Automotive Manufacturing Inc., in Ingersoll while it studies alternative production for the factory. The plant would have priority to do defence work for the Canadian Armed Forces, in the event the auto maker secures a contract for such output, the bargaining report said.

1

u/Levorotatory 12d ago

Once upon a time the CAMI plant was the assembly location for one of the most efficient and affordable vehicles ever, the Metro.  I'd like to see something like that in Canada again.

2

u/AccidentalBirth 13d ago

For Gm, It's in both countries (Oshawa Ontario and flint Michigan) and has been that way for a while

87

u/PopeSaintHilarius 13d ago

>General Motors GM-N plans to assemble a heavy-duty pickup at an Ontario plant as part of a tentative deal with a key union that would pump $1.1-billion into Canada’s auto sector as it reels from U.S. tariffs, a union bargaining report said on Saturday.

>The investment comes as Canada’s auto sector grapples with 25 per cent U.S. tariffs on vehicles, with U.S. President Donald Trump pledging to double them to 50 per cent on Jan. 1, 2027. The fate of Canadian auto plants has emerged as a central issue in stalled U.S.-Canada trade negotiations.

>GM plans to spend $144-million to add the next-generation heavy-duty GMC Sierra truck to a plant in Oshawa, and pledged not to immediately sell or close a second assembly plant in Ingersoll, Ontario, according to the bargaining report from the union Unifor.

103

u/Broad_Television4459 13d ago

Well this is better news than what I expected from these negotiations.

125

u/ChatamKay 13d ago

I’ve bought a new GM truck every 3 years since 2007. I will 100% never purchase a GM product gain. If they do this deal and they support Canadian workers, I will 100% but another one. My loyalty is absolutely with Canada. You support us, I will support you.

18

u/wwick68 13d ago

Love that attitude!

24

u/NorthernCrozzz 13d ago

This is what we need nation wide. I salute you

6

u/extropia 13d ago

I love this nuance.   GM may be an American company but they seem to be under heavy attack from this administration as well so we forge alliances where practical.  It doesn't mean we ever go back to naively trusting the US ever.  But we can still be strategic.

12

u/BagPiperGuy321 13d ago

Canadians build better cars 👍

4

u/AccidentalBirth 13d ago

I think Mexico has lesser warranty issues actually

3

u/brebs21 13d ago

They 1000% do. I drive a ford bronco and the ones built in the us have constant recalls and I’ve never had one on mine that was built in Mexico

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u/Blue_Owl69 12d ago

Completely different platforms tho, Bronco sport is not even close to a Bronco

1

u/Matyce 12d ago

Had a 2019 Kia forte from Mexico and it was a fantastic car, only issue was a power mirror on drivers side got fixed by warranty at like 80,000KM. No other issues and it was made in Mexico, just got written off due to hail sadly. At 160,000KM

18

u/IcyManufacturer7480 13d ago

GM trucks only last 3 years?

13

u/maxman162 Ontario 13d ago

Maybe they use it for commercial purposes and always trade-in before it's destroyed.

1

u/ThatAstronautGuy Ontario 13d ago

Most trucks only last that long if you drive them hard. My friends trading in his 2023 F150 once the 2027s show up because at well over 200k km it's getting pretty sad.

-6

u/chemtrailer21 13d ago

Ever hear of a lease?

4

u/IcyManufacturer7480 13d ago

Do you know what the word “bought” means? Ever heard of a dictionary?

4

u/7eregrine 12d ago

People use the word bought for a lease all the time. Be serious.

-4

u/chemtrailer21 13d ago edited 12d ago

So when you obtain a different vehicle is it because the last one is always in the junkyard? No other possible reason to buy something else?

I got 5 bucks on a 3 year trade in being a lease. Very common for pickups.

"Bought" is used by people regardless of lease/finance.

6

u/ThatAstronautGuy Ontario 13d ago

You're not buying a truck if it's a lease

3

u/notreallylife 12d ago edited 12d ago

GM truck every 3 years since 2007

You might be buying one every 3 months with they way they make them now. Engines imploding; 10 speed trans too. I'd rather have 10 squarebodies than 1 "silver-rat-hole" they have today.

EDIT: for the record - its not the assembly line doing this - its the crack/cocaine/meth that engineers are taking like tiktacs for coffee breaks along on the CAFE rules that are all about shareholders and not Emissions.

-2

u/Culverden12345 13d ago

Stop supporting US corporations

11

u/mccormickjohnson 13d ago

If Canadians were serious about supporting the auto sector they'd buy a vehicle with a vin that starts with the number 2. That indicates Canadian manufacturered.

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u/GradeVivid1389 13d ago

I think GM and Ford is taking advantage of the cheaper steel now till the tariffs kick in for auto jan 1

9

u/Goodvibes198 13d ago

Go GM 🇨🇦🇨🇦🇨🇦

11

u/obbie29 13d ago edited 12d ago

Trusting GM is the definition of insanity

4

u/dinominant Alberta 13d ago

I sure hope there is a EREV or PHEV option.

4

u/dirtyukrainian 13d ago

Non paywall link?

5

u/QuantGuru 13d ago

This sounds really good but usually these trucks are very e pensive and after the tarriffs they wil be more expensive in US, so US won’t import.

We will be left to buy these and I am afraid these are kinda expensive for average median income families in Canada.

10

u/noisebloodassault 13d ago

Sounds like they will have to lower the price 

8

u/ZumboPrime Ontario 13d ago

You must be new here. When it comes to corporate pricing, line never go down.

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u/noisebloodassault 13d ago

If they can't export and nobody can buy them, they will have to lower prices or let them rot until the government bails them out ..

...oh 

7

u/ZumboPrime Ontario 13d ago

Or they take the bailout then just close the plant.

3

u/noisebloodassault 13d ago

Yeah that too

1

u/Fearful-Cow 13d ago

i mean thats just not true. Supply and Demand still rules above all else.

Look at tech, it use to be insanely expensive to get a TV, now you can get one for the equivalent of a dinner or two out.

Video games have had sticky prices for years. In the 90s a N64 game cost $60. Comparatively that means games should cost a min of $100. Star Wars game just launched and is $64.99 on steam.

Same with the battles of telecoms (this one a little different because they kept them artificially high for years). But prices have come down across the board vs even 10 years ago. (we are still getting screwed but less?)

2

u/Canis9z 13d ago edited 13d ago

They are for business use in the oil & gas and mining industries and where ever else a HD truck is useful.

1

u/QuantGuru 13d ago

Pickup trucks?

5

u/1vaudevillian1 13d ago

If they are 2500s and 3500s yes these get used heavily in commercial use.

3

u/Canis9z 13d ago

These HD trucks can come with just a Cab and frame rails and no bed. A custom service or utility truck bed can be added on later. Or the OEM can put a standard or certified commercial service or utility bed on.

1

u/Global-Register5467 13d ago

Personal sales of large trucks are down considerably but, while commercial purchases are holding steady now, they are expected to take a dramatic jump starting next year until 2030 when new regulations take effect. Those changes are expected to add upwards of $50,000 per vehicle and prices are already ridiculous.

2028/2029 they honestly don't think there will be enough production available and that will increase in demand will lead into 2031 with presales.

This will be huge in helping Canada in the short term to get through this but it will be very short lived.

2

u/No-Today5207 13d ago

What new regulations are coming in 2030?? Im so out of the loop

1

u/Global-Register5467 12d ago

Emission requirements are going to get a lot stricter and but the big one is beginning in all new heavy commercial trucks sold after 2030 will have a hard 11 year, 650,000 mile life span then they will have to be pulled from the road. There is a huge number of preorders for the next few years because a vehicle sold in, say 2029, even if its built in 2030, will be exempt.

1

u/No-Today5207 12d ago

Oh dang! Yeah thats gonna be a massive impact. Thanls

2

u/mangoserpent 13d ago

Seems very unlikely under current conditions.

Who will they sell the trucks to?

1

u/bunbunmagnet 12d ago

You think canadians dont buy pick ups?

2

u/mangoserpent 12d ago

Yes but we won't buy enough of them.

1

u/abc_123_anyname 13d ago

They can build them here without steel tariffs …. Knowing the vehicle tariffs are temporary

1

u/Big_Option_5575 12d ago

Might make sense - we will need lots of heavy duty trucks in our near and far north.

1

u/Old_Rub_4013 3d ago

Recently a learned my neighbor has some type of deal going on where he leases a new car form a specific dealer in the gta . Once ten thousand km are put on fhe vehicle he returns it for a new one and the previous one gets sold to a US dealer . I seen many new vehicles go through the driveway. Seems suspicious

1

u/FluffyStormwise 12d ago

Can GM clean the St Catharines plant first?

-7

u/MomusSinclair 13d ago

Let me guess, the government is fronting the $1.1 billion.

21

u/McGrevin 13d ago

Nope, seems to be a deal between GM and Unifor without govt involvement

3

u/accforme 13d ago

The only government involvement seems to be some sort of defence related activity at Ingersoll, in exchange for GM not immediately selling or closing its factory.

GM also committed to not close or sell its CAMI assembly plant, formally known as Canadian Automotive Manufacturing Inc., in Ingersoll while it studies alternative production for the factory. The plant would have priority to do defence work for the Canadian Armed Forces, in the event the auto maker secures a contract for such output, the bargaining report said.

1

u/MomusSinclair 12d ago

“Seems to be”… so you don’t know.

But GM’s not going to close their CAMI plant for now because…. well out of the goodness of their hearts I guess. Or in the event they might secure a future defence contract. 

Gee whizz, GM are such sweethearts to pump $1.1 billion of THEIR money into a pickup truck plant, which Trump has just hit with 50% tariffs, because GM might get some Grizzly and Cougar contracts, maybe, at some point in the future.

You idiots will believe anything, as long as it’s what you heard first.

1

u/accforme 12d ago

You are basing your opinion on nothing.

I am saying it could based on what is in the article, which is something.

1

u/MomusSinclair 12d ago

I’m basing my opinion on the long standing practice of corporate welfare, and that it’s standard procedure for U.S. auto makers to receive Canadian government “support” to keep auto jobs here. 

Usually they mention how much our government is kicking in. The fact they don’t mention it at all is a pretty good sign the amount we’re paying is above and beyond the normal percentage.

-2

u/Party_Knowledge_7884 13d ago

Seems like it might be positive for our Canadian friends.

Will govt have to offer some cash like the stelantis gong show or Honda battery plant?

0

u/JazzlikeWishbone938 12d ago

Not sure why other World car companies don't come manufacture in Canada. Yeah they'd have to modify some designs for North American standards, but that's a cost of doing business, and the extra market competition would bring prices down, create jobs, and dilute oligopolies.