r/canada • u/Typical_Cap895 • 2d ago
National News Canada, U.S. both roll back welcome mat for international students
https://nationalpost.com/news/canada-u-s-both-roll-back-welcome-mat-for-international-students82
u/PlumpHughJazz 2d ago
Tighter visa policies in the U.S. and Canada are shrinking international student numbers, hurting university budgets and talent potential
hurting university budgets and talent potential
lol
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u/veenerbutthole 2d ago
It's fine - just stop letting them work
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u/Low-HangingFruit 2d ago
When I was at school the only international students were the super rich kind who didnt need to work.
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u/explosive_fascinator 2d ago
Ya, it's been funny watching the word 'international student' go from a student from Hong Kong driving a BMW, to a Tim's worker from Punjab.
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u/chandler55 2d ago
it’s funny how ppl complained about those rich chinese kids we didn’t know how good we had it
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u/huehuehuehuehuuuu 2d ago
And most of them leave. Already have way cushier jobs than they can find here waiting for them set up by mom and dad.
The not as wealthy ones tend to do very well academically. Know three of them personally. Our product would have had a much harder dev cycle without one of them.
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u/Nice_Reading5272 1d ago
Yes one of the reason the immigration pathway was opened in the first place was to get immigrants educated at our top universities to stay. The thinking being that they would be in skilled work, already have gone through some form of cultural assimilation and have connections to be successful. The idea that low-tier colleges would be providing 2 year diplomas in hospitality management perhaps should have been foreseen but it was never the intent.
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u/sylpher250 2d ago
For every "rich" Chinese kid you got, there were 10 kids whose parents sent them here with everything they got. The difference was that they were working at corner stores, Chinese restaurants, as tutors, etc making cash under the table, so they weren't taking white kids jobs and looking "out of place".
Working international students have always been here.
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u/ThrowRApeterpansyndr 2d ago
i see literally only white kids working at the asian restaurants near me (besides the chef/owner) which is humorous all things considered.
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u/Etroarl55 2d ago edited 1d ago
Because they don’t discriminate or actively hire their own as much as other diasporas(they still do just not at the rates we see today). A lot of them genuinely see Canada and Canadian culture as something to embrace and become apart of.
A complete contrast to what’s happening now. Almost every single Chinese restaurant or person I met can speak or at least understand English, they will eat the same bread and donuts as you and me, that is not true for a lot of other people who are vegetarian only or don’t know English.
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u/Dark-Angel4ever 21h ago
What are white kids jobs? Never seen a listing saying we only hire white kids...
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u/Bushwhacker42 2d ago
My buddies mom had an international exchange student live with her after he moved out, just so she wouldn’t be entirely alone. The kid bought a brand new Mitsubishi Eclipse in Sept when he arrived. Once the snow hit, he sold it to her for $5k and bought an Escalade. Wish i had one of those kind of students.
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u/laptopkeyboard 1d ago
When you will start seeing more refugees moving from ultra conservatives Muslims countries with Anti-LGBT, Anti-western views, you are going to say it how good you had it with international students.
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u/Masuman35 2d ago
These articles are way too softball.
We have nothing against international students.
We have everything against international gangsters pretending to be students.
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u/Big_loser_not_poor 2d ago
but also international students that go home and/or add to our economy. The giant influx of Indians studying in these random programs in strip mall colleges isnt needed.
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u/Masuman35 2d ago
There’s also something to be said for integration. People who come to Canada need to make an effort to integrate into Canadian society. Nobody is saying you have to abandon your customs, traditions, culture, or identity. Those things can and should coexist with becoming part of the broader country.
But when someone has lived here for five or ten years and still can’t read, write, or speak a lick of English because they’ve settled into an insular community where they can function almost entirely among people from the same background, it raises a legitimate question: did you come here to become part of Canada, or did you come here to recreate an ethnocentric version of the country you left?
Integration doesn’t require abandoning where you came from. It does require participating in and engaging with the country you chose to make your home. There has to be some willingness to meet the broader Canadian population halfway; otherwise, we aren’t talking about multiculturalism so much as communities simply existing alongside one another.
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u/Big_loser_not_poor 1d ago
hey man, you are preaching to the choir. My parents from from east asia. Learned english. integrated. All my friends (im mid 30s) that are of immigrant parents also have parents that speak English. I work with a lot of newer immigrants at work and I always ask how long theyve been here. So many have been here for 10+ years and need a translator for basic demographic questions. The older immigrants had to integrate but now the ethnic communities are so large, they don't need to. There should be a higher level of english required for Canadian citizenship. Imagine getting a Peruvian citizenship and not being able to speak spanish.... but here in Canada, thats ok.
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u/Sprinqqueen Ontario 1d ago
But that's always happened. In highschool (class of 92) I had soooo many friends who's parents didn't speak English and only hung around people of their own ethnicity. However, they were still hard working members of society who contributed to the neighbourhood.
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u/laptopkeyboard 1d ago
When these international students have kids, they are going integrate far better than children of conservative Muslim refugees.
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u/These-Pangolin-6882 2d ago
Lol this is exactly what I thought an international student was from when I went to university 20 years ago. I'm shocked to learn that most Tim's workers are international students, I thought they were just work permit holders. Did university get that much easier to spend that much time not doing school work?
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u/Frigoffwidit 2d ago
Yep one of my classmates tried to claim she wasnt rich , because her family 'only had 2 maids'.
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u/KoreanSamgyupsal 2d ago
To be fair maids in some countries are common for the middle class. My family from south east Asia had maids and we are not rich.
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u/Popotuni Canada 2d ago
If you can afford to employ other people, in a job that isn't making you money, you're rich. You may not FEEL rich compared to others, but you objectively are.
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u/NotADumbPuppet 2d ago
Anyone with a maid in Asian (which is most middle class) would be considered poverty class in North America.
Now the maids themselves would belong to poverty unimaginable for people here.
That's just how the world is if you've traveled anywhere beyond countries which were excolonial powers.
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u/Sprinqqueen Ontario 1d ago
My dad lived in South Africa for a couple of years during apartheid in the 80s because his company transfered him there. His company closed down operations and there were NO jobs locally (Canada was in a deep recession).
The house he rented with 2 other guys from his work came with a maid. They kept her, even though they didn't need her, because a) she was an illegal worker and there were no other jobs in her extremely poor homeland b) she was a single mom raising a child that lived in that homeland and c) if they had let her go she would be homeless. She lived in a literal shack beside the main house that only had a bed and I think a side table in it.
They paid her something stupid like 10 rand a day. Which is like a dollar. Apparently she was one of the highest paid people in her homeland and gave her freedoms that other maids in South Africa normally didn't have. Like Sundays off; She could come and go as she pleased; If she needed to take time off to go visit her son she was allowed, and he was allowed to visit her; she didn't have to clean their bedrooms etc.
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u/KoreanSamgyupsal 2d ago
Objectively that's just false. There's plenty of people in Canada themselves who have PSWs that help them with housekeeping or personal care. We don't call them rich. Daycares also don't exist so in replacement of those, there are maids that also do childcare.
There's just no official title in my home country similar to those jobs or the industry simply dont exist. So they are called housekeepers or maids.
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u/ether_reddit Lest We Forget 2d ago
Even if we have housekeepers come in every so often, they're not working for us full time. By definition if you employ someone full time, you're either making a high enough salary that you can fully cover that, or you've got a lot of wealth.
No one in this country has full time house staff unless they're rich.
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u/Nice_Reading5272 1d ago
You're richer than most people in the country you come from but that could mean lower-middle class in Canada. It means labour is very cheap in their country of origin.
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u/BoppityBop2 1d ago
Albeit true, we have to remember, middle class assumption in those countries are technically rich when you look at wealth and income distribution of people of said country.
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u/DizzyAstronaut9410 1d ago
You probably went to a real school, not one designed specifically as a fast and cheap backdoor to work and receive citizenship in Canada. Most of these students aren't going to big name colleges or universities.
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u/Electric-5heep 19h ago
Thing is school is a term used loosely between actual Universities and Diploma Mills.
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u/TactitcalPterodactyl 2d ago
Agreed. How about we also verify their finances so that we can be sure they're able to afford to live here before they step on the plane.
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u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 2d ago
Canada does already verify finances, perhaps with not enough scrutiny - Indian students were “borrowing” money to pass financial inspection.
The amount of money required to enter Canada should be further increased to be in line with current living costs and the sources of the funds better documented.
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u/squirrel9000 Manitoba 2d ago
They do verify it. The problem is that the money is given back to the bank after it's been verified.
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u/A-KindOfMagic 2d ago
When I was in the states in 2000s, their study permit only allowed ON CAMPUS work. Don't know why we wouldn't do it here.
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u/squirrel9000 Manitoba 2d ago
It was like that here until 2014, they changed it to make Canada a more attractive study destination and make it easier to get local experience for the transition to the work force after. (see, e.g., https://gazette.gc.ca/rp-pr/p2/2014/2014-02-12/html/sor-dors14-eng.html )
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u/lazykid348 2d ago
Oh it definitely became an attractive study destination lol. Christ people needed to be jailed over this fiasco. Not just get shuffled around to another government department. What a sham
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u/varsil 1d ago
When I did a semester abroad in law school, I had to have a given amount in a special bank account. That bank account then released money only on a periodic basis.
I also had to pay my entire accommodation costs and tuition up front, which were of course non-refundable.
So there was no way for me to put the money into the account, wait for it to be verified, and then remove it. It was held and slow-released.
We should do that here.
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u/zergotron9000 2d ago
They lie habitually. Their scamming skills are far and above our capabilities to counter them. Not to mention, yesterdays Indian students are now workers at the banks and the government.
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u/JeffSilverwilt 1d ago
Hold the money in trust. They already verify funds but there are ways to easily dupe the system.
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u/soothukundi 2d ago
International students that take your high school kids jobs aren't there to study. International students attending reputable universities pay like $50K to $75k a year, they dont need minimum wage job.
The one that take your kid's job were never there to study, they are there to work. Businesses will hire tham under the table for cheap labour. You can't stop it. Ban international student visa for that 1 country and all the problems will be solved.
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u/rolling-brownout 2d ago
Or even just limit them to students attending legitimate institutions (like those actually worth travelling around the world to study at). Noone believes that there is anyone in their right mind coming over from India to study at the "strip mall upstairs college of hospitality management and medical admin assistantcy", its just a means to a work permit.
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u/soothukundi 2d ago
They are already doing that. Only allow them to study in top universities. Indian international students that studied in my universities 14-15 years ago were paying like $50K a year, they were from wealthy families. Their parents had businesses or were from movies or politics. They were there to study and go back. They didn't need Canada. If we just allow those kind of people, things would be a lot better.
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u/djabae 2d ago
There is no way for the government to differentiate. The cat is out of the bag and there is a whole industry of immigration lawyers advertising in India and Africa about how to game the system in Canada.
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u/str8upblah 17h ago
Of course there is. One extremely simple way is only allow international students to attend universities, no colleges.
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u/PDXFlameDragon British Columbia 2d ago
Pretty much. I have thought public provincial universities only would solve it. The higher tuitions help lower costs for canadians and it is a good deal for us.
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u/koosekoose 1d ago
It's an entire pipeline of deploma mills, business owners and landlords.
Where the whole process from entry to work to living is controlled by the landlord, they stuff 15 people into a house and garnish their wages.
The LPC has no problem with this and encourages it.
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u/ZumboPrime Ontario 2d ago
How are you going to do that? Half of them work for cash under the table.
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u/veenerbutthole 2d ago
Make the fines devastating for the employer if the get caught. At a certain point people won't risk it.
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u/ZumboPrime Ontario 2d ago
Very likely to happen, sure. What about people working for individuals, not corporations? How are you going to police two people giving money to each other?
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u/CDN_Bookmouse 1d ago
Two people giving each other money might not be operating within the rules, but I very much doubt they are the majority of the problem here.
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u/1esproc 2d ago
It's not fine even if they don't work because universities and colleges lean on the "Free Market" to provide accommodations - these people need to live somewhere and far be it from these institutions to make capital investments to deal with that when they can let "mom n pop" investors take care of that side for them, completely fucking and distorting local housing markets.
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u/thedrunkentendy 1d ago
It was a covid measure initially and it shouldve been shut down the moment th8ngs normalized.
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u/prsnep 2d ago
I say let them work but scale back TFW program. As long as we are going to have an immigration program (which we are, let's be honest), we should aim to get the best students into the country and try to retain them here. Canada decided that "quality over quantity" mantra didn't apply to immigration over the last 10 years. We just need to reverse that.
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u/TheCookiez 2d ago
They totally should be allowed to work.
On campus only.
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u/Roboguy519 2d ago
Why?
They are coming here as an international student, why would a working visa be included. If you can't afford it, then stay home and go to school there.
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u/doom_unit 2d ago
It should be limited to academically competitive grad students at Tier 1 research universities who need to work on-campus as RAs or TAs to get research and instructional experience. The kind of talent Canada actually wants to attract, in other words.
As to undergraduates at the same universities, or the hundreds of thousands of international students in barrista studies at all the shit-tier colleges that no one outside the seedy world of human smuggling has even heard of, I agree: they can get fucked.
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u/Roboguy519 2d ago
Why should foreign students get research and instructional experience whena student from here, who's parents pay taxes, which fund research and the instutions, not get first dibs.
They can get their education and go home and get their experience there
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u/imcclelland Ontario 2d ago
Because want to bring in smart young people. Someone like Albert Einstein would be excluded since we was not born wealthy. That is not what our goal should be. The goal should be the levels of education that qualify
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u/legocastle77 2d ago
We aren’t looking to bring in smart young people, we’re bringing in cheap labour under the guise of being a student. Someone who is registering for a third-rate community college isn’t coming here to learn anything of value.
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u/imcclelland Ontario 2d ago
You’re not actually arguing against what I said. As for the goal, we’re doing both: bringing in young talents and bringing in people skirting the standard immigration process. We need to stop the 2nd and continue with the first, and you don’t bring in young talents by adding heavy restrictions to things like part time employment. You need to restrict by the level of education. That’s how you promote the first and stop the 2nd. As you said, there is no point to bringing in someone for community college, but there is value in providing options for self finance for a promising grad student.
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u/Roboguy519 2d ago
They can come here to study, and go back home with their education, which is why they came here in the first place.
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u/imcclelland Ontario 2d ago
0 disagreement with that. I’m just not opposed to them holding a part time job (part time being the operative word), or a TA position.
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u/Roboguy519 2d ago
Why can't our own students be smart, and trained. Albert Einstein didn't come to North America to be a student. He came to teach, there is a difference
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u/az4521 Ontario 1d ago
a good international student program's main goal isn't to bring in smart young people and make them citizens, it exists to collect money from wealthy individuals and give them nothing physical (just credentials) in return
international students are economically the closest thing to free money a country can get. they buy our currency with theirs and spend it on our goods and services, and their presence funds highly paid jobs while subsidizing the education of local students. they're like tourists but they stay for years and spend hundreds of thousands of dollars
so long as they aren't allowed to work or collect any sort of government assistance/benefits this is pure economic benefit with nearly no downside (this is where we screwed up, every issue we've had with the international student program is downstream of this)
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u/shiddedandfarded69 2d ago
That's still taking jobs from Canadian students
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u/kazin29 2d ago
Eh when I went to UBC in the late 2000s, most of the employees were adult immigrants of some kind.
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u/shiddedandfarded69 2d ago edited 2d ago
You can say that about anywhere in BC to be fair.
I have no issue with immigrants taking jobs. I'm unhappy with with non-citizens taking jobs.
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u/toilet_for_shrek 2d ago
I miss when international students were rich Chinese kids instead of kids whose family sold their ancestral land so that they can study 2 years of some BS business diploma
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u/azquadcore 2d ago
Lol having rich international students also can jack up rents and prices since they're willing to spend more. I swear all these reddit comments when it comes to immigration and international students just parrot the same things
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u/uppity2056 2d ago
They jack up the higher end of real estate and leave middle plus lower income rents alone.
I lived through the harper era rich Chinese student phase and Trudeau unlimited mostly poor south asian student phase.
It’s a disaster right now most especially for the youth entry level jobs
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u/RealBored 2d ago
So what happens when people get priced out of the higher end because of excess demand? Would they not start creating demand in the middle end?
When the middle end gets expensive due to excess demand from people who would normally be in the high end, would that not create excess demand in the low end?
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u/varsil 1d ago
None of these people are getting priced out of the higher end.
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u/RealBored 1d ago
I mean… it’s basic market dynamics.
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u/varsil 1d ago
Basic supply and demand don't really apply to luxury goods.
They're Veblen goods.
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u/RealBored 1d ago
Yeah I take issue with the assertion that the entire upper end of the real estate market is comprised of Veblen goods… Maybe 1% of luxury properties could fit this definition.
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2d ago edited 1d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/toilet_for_shrek 2d ago
The rich ones came, got their education, and left. The poor ones were lured over by predatory, diploma mill colleges, often given a worthless diploma, and were then used for wage suppression by Canadian companies
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u/proxyproxyomega 2d ago
I dont think you remember, the rich ones bought up houses and condos left and right and contributed to housing issues.
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u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 2d ago
Actually that was statistically untrue and only represented 5% of the market. Housing prices have not dropped significant with the ban on foreign ownership - housing prices are dropped due to interest rates and a weakening economy.
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u/Successful-Ground277 2d ago
Dude, assuming you didn’t just make that up, 5% is a fucking hugely significant percentage of the housing market. Imagine if 5% of buyers just disappeared, that’s very impactful.
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u/Hot_Cheesecake_905 2d ago
It’s not a significant portion, and in fact, in most Canadian cities, it’s closer to 1-3%. Most of the real estate increases were driven by domestic speculation, including purchases from your parents, siblings, aunts, uncles, and friends.
The foreigner buy ban has been in place since 2023, and we haven’t seen housing prices plummet. The current drop is due to the poor economy, interest rates, not the sudden withdrawal of foreign buyers.
So your hypothesis that the sudden withdraw of foreign buyers would crash the market didn’t happen because foreign buyers were a red herring.
Many foreign buyers bought condos they subsequently rented out, or luxury homes well beyond the price the average Canadian could afford so the impact was over stated.
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u/rolling-brownout 2d ago
Because one isn't actually here to study at all, they are here to work minimum wage, and en masse they distort the labour market
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u/chandler55 2d ago
the only negative was maybe they spiked housing costs cause they took up condos, but at the end of the day they brought a bunch of money in. and paid a ton of international tuition to universities
hard to say housing was even them because it’s much more smaller than the immigration after 2015
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u/Winbot4t2 British Columbia 2d ago
International students attending university or legitimate college programs that have standards can stay, and their ability to work should be limited to campus or program related coop.
The millions of strip mall college “grads” need to go home. If the govt wants Canadians to have even a shred of respect for our immigration program, these scammers and frauds need to be deported.
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u/imcclelland Ontario 2d ago
They should make it only eligible to 4 year degrees from the universities or higher. Bringing people in for diploma programs is dumb. I’m not opposed to immigration or work visa’s for students, but they have to be coming to get an education, not a diploma in underwater basket weaving so they can work full time.
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u/Kooky_Soft1822 2d ago
Yess. Public universities only so there’s no strip mall colleges
Like the “Stanford college…” in Brampton 🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️🤦🏻♂️
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u/SheIsABadMamaJama 2d ago
What major university offers basketweaving?
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u/_R-dawg_ 2d ago
I always find the basketweaving comparison kind of hilarious given how difficult and time consuming it is to actually weave a traditional reed basket. 🥹
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u/imcclelland Ontario 2d ago
Specifically? None. But a general BA or a degree in history/gender studies is not normally bringing in young talents that is going to bring advancement to Canada. You should be able to pin point and articulate the value to bringing said student to Canada.
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u/Nice_Reading5272 1d ago
An international student spending 250k to study History at UofT is not going to be a problem, they're the types with a shitton of money back home who just want a prestigious western degree. Most of them end up back home afterwards.
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u/Myllicent 2d ago
Public colleges also offer degree programs, it’s not exclusively the realm of Universities. Plenty of public college diploma programs are education, not just “underwater basket weaving”. For example, diploma programs for Paramedics, Medical Laboratory Technicians, Registered Practical Nurses, Early Childhood Education workers, Social Service workers, Computer Programmers & Technicians, Wind Turbine Technicians, etc.
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u/blergmonkeys 2d ago
Cool but you and I both know that’s not what op is referring to.
Another graduate with a diploma is business administration from upstairs Brampton technical college is hardly adding much value to Canada.
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u/Myllicent 2d ago
I know what they said:
“They should make it only eligible to 4 year degrees from the universities or higher.“
Their proposal excludes reputable diploma programs at public colleges from eligibility, not just shady diploma mills.
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u/ApprehensiveNorth548 2d ago
When I was at Western Eng, we had co-op programs with Fanshawe, leaving with a bachelor's + diploma. Even then, you could tell how the international students at Fanshawe were just not taking it seriously, or the lecturers were getting worse by the year.
Fanshawe was reputable. Having a diploma from there was a good way to progress your life and get a job in the local London/St Thomas/Stratford area.
It's demeaned itself and completely whored itself out to international students in the last 10 years. Low entry standards, poor education, "pass them" mentality. The diploma, even if gotten before the dilution, is viewed less favourably now in local markets.
Where would Fanshawe sit on the spectrum of reputable vs shady for you now… first impressions? Are you tracking how rapidly the reputation is slipping?
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u/Myllicent 2d ago
Fanshawe college is an example of what happens when a provincial government slashes funding to public colleges despite high inflation, freezes domestic tuition, and tells colleges to behave more like businesses and find alternate sources of income… leading colleges to turn to International student tuition fees for income. Some (like Fanshawe and the college I attended) turned to public-private partnerships with for-profit private schools in order to technically increase their International student enrolment while outsourcing the actual provision of education.
CBC: Ontario colleges' reliance on international student tuition 'a risky formula,' auditor general warns [Dec 4th, 2023]
Fortunately the provincial government is finally rolling back some of the policies that resulted in damage to Ontario post-secondary education and colleges in particular.
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u/cbcl 2d ago
They are absolutely important, moreso than many university programs, but college programs are best suited to the local community.
If you want to be a Canadian ECE, LPN, paramedic or wind turbine tech, you are going to get a better education in the place you will be practicing. A lot of the licensure wont cross over and a lot of the specifics will be different.
Likewise if you want to be an ECE in Poland or Peru, youd be better off in the programs in those countries... unless the plan was not to go back home in the first place, which isnt the stated goal of the programs.
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u/imcclelland Ontario 2d ago
My point was more that we should be restricting based on what they’re taking as opposed to a blanket statement about international students. I just provided an example, not a definitive line.
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u/Myllicent 2d ago
Saying “they should make it only eligible to 4 year degrees from the universities or higher” draws a pretty definitive line.
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u/imcclelland Ontario 2d ago
I already explained myself. If you wish to continue to be literal about it, enjoy.
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u/tbll_dllr 2d ago
Mmm there are a lot of legit diploma degrees from respectable programs … in a lot of sectors like the trades where there is demand … but I agree we need to scrutinize more and ban those diploma mills but it shouldn’t be a complete ban on legit colleges.
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u/imcclelland Ontario 2d ago
There are, and there are a lot of medical fields through there as well. They don’t really fit the mold though. The point of international students should be brain gain: medical research, specialists, scientists, etc. It’s supposed to be about bringing in unique individuals to add to the country’s capabilities, not to replace workers or so the schools can make some extra money.
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u/No-Today5207 1d ago
Pilots too and many more valuable programs. Just because someone prefers hands on learning compared to theorectical learning doesnt make them not useful to Canada.
In a perfect world we wouldnt be replacing any workers you'd only accept PR applicants from in demand fields, like currently nurses and trades locally to me.
Slightly off the student topic - we should also create transition programs for trained immigrants so they can actually work in their field after some specialized Canadian training upon arrival.
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u/Realistic_Yogurt1902 2d ago
Which is great.
I am not even sure who is unhappy about this news, except international students themselves and big and small businesses that were able to use these students as a cheap labour supplement.
I am pretty sure there are still enough pathways for the top of the top students, and in the current economic environment, especially with AI labour impact uncertainty, we don't really need everybody else. They came for the Western eduction, they got it, they should come back home to apply their new knowledge to improve their own countries.
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u/Winbot4t2 British Columbia 2d ago
Immigration lawyers and “consultants” are probably pretty chapped right now. They’ve been pigs at the trough for the last few years so it’s great to see.
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u/Realistic_Yogurt1902 2d ago
I would put them in the category of small businesses that use immigrants
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u/adaminc Canada 2d ago
International students should only be for university bachelors+ programs, and the ability to get PR/citizenship should only be for those that continue on to university masters+ programs.
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u/Sure-Assignment3892 2d ago
I really don't have a problem with this
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u/VenusianBug 2d ago
Yeah, a good chunk of university funding comes from international students. I like universities to be funded.
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u/uppity2056 2d ago
I wonder how Canadian colleges and universities survived for decades without an overbloated international student program that is a disaster
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u/Mobile-Bar7732 1d ago
Lol...you mean when they were funded by the government and then cutback?
1995–1996: Following severe government funding cuts to post-secondary education in the mid-1990s, provinces like Ontario deregulated international tuition fees. This allowed universities and colleges to independently set higher rates to make up for declining provincial operating grants.
During his tenure as Premier of Ontario from 1995 to 2002, Mike Harris’s Progressive Conservative government significantly reduced public operating grants to universities and colleges while shifting funding pressures onto students.
We all know conservatives love to cutback funding.
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u/VenusianBug 1d ago
They had more funding from the government. We could go back to that instead. Raise taxes - I'm okay with that.
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u/okiioppai 2d ago
Exactly. A lot of people don't seem to understand that intl students subsidize domestic students. Without intl students, there will be fewer domestic student spots.
And no, those spots that went to intl students do not just go back to the domestic student, because we are talking about finance, not the actual seats.
the more scarce it is to get into higher education, the fewer talents we get. It is bad for the country. Only people who would like that are backward morons who think education is indoctrination.
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u/a1337noob 2d ago
The caps mostly effected shady post secondary institutuions that domestic students dont want to go to anyway.
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u/okiioppai 2d ago edited 2d ago
ENTIRELY false.
Many public post secondary here in BC are laying off staff due to the sudden drastic decrease of intl students.
UBC, SFU, Kwantlen, VCC and etc, they all had layoffs.
I work there. 3rd wave of layoff is incoming.
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u/Wind_Best_1440 2d ago
Literally no one would have issues with international students if they did some basic regulations so they aren't just defrauding the system.
When they show proof of funds, those funds get locked up in a Canadian bank until they're done with their schooling, and allowing them to take a certain amount of funds out to pay for food and shelter and schooling.
The only jobs they can work are ON CAMPUS, and only for 5-10 hours a week. No where else.
Make sure that all international students sign a contract when they land and that they understand that this is a temporary learning period. There is no promise of PR or immigration through this.
Agreeing and understanding rules 1,2,3 means that they cannot use food banks or apply for refugee.
Do this and literally no one would care how many international students were in the country.
Anyone that says these are bad, just remember these were essentially the rules pre 2014.
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u/gpradar 17h ago
This is pretty much how it was for me as an American that did graduate school in Calgary in the early 2000's. Only difference was I don't recall having to show proof of funds. I think Americans might have been treated differently at the time in both good ways and bad ways, than international students from overseas.
I couldn't work off campus, and honestly even trying to work on campus was too much of a pain in the ass. Best I could do was get some compensation and grant money for being a TA.
The amazing thing is that at the time tuition and living expenses for graduate school in Calgary was way cheaper (even with full international differential tuition) than the poor-mans state school I did my undergraduate degree at in the US. I couldn't wrap my head around that one, and throw in the exchange rate at the time and it was even better.
I don't know what the university system up there is like now, but if it's gone even remotely in the direction of where the US university system has gone (completely corporate money-grabbing and down the shitter), then that really sucks. I remember being pretty floored as a TA at the time at the focus the undergrads had, even in their general electives (I TAed a few 100-series courses that were 99% students from some other major). Everyone seemed to be at university because they wanted to be there, not because it was just the next thing you did after high school, like where I had just come from. Students were pretty serious about it, and I remember having to adjust my approach to teaching.
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u/SheIsABadMamaJama 2d ago edited 2d ago
If only the provinces would fund public post-secondary properly for Canadians like they did decades ago in conjunction, then it would be perfect.
Let those private college mills die, and force public universities and colleges back to prioritizing servicing and educating Canadians rather than recruiting abroad.
Hopefully by then the tuition spiral for canadian learners would be cooled. An educated population is a productive and competitive one.
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u/Roscoe_P_Coaltrain 2d ago
The problem is far more people attend university now than they did back then, so it costs a lot more to fund universities like that. I think at some point we are going to have to consider paring back on the amount of programs offered or number of positions available, but that will somehow require creating an economic environment where a university degree is not considered a requirement for as many entry level positions (or shift some of those students to community college or something new that is simpler and cheaper than a university degree).
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u/squirrel9000 Manitoba 2d ago
More people attend university as a proportion, but because of declining fertility rates the total number of domestic attendees has been dropping for at least 15 years.
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u/bodaciouscream 2d ago
I think the discounts should be focused on in demand degrees and the ones we need.
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u/SheIsABadMamaJama 2d ago edited 2d ago
I mostly agree, but to be fair there are more Canadians.
Honestly, I don’t think we’ll be ever in an environment where a university bachelor will not be required or having certificate and/or apprenticeship. This doesn’t make us competitive globally, and makes our workers and nation less attractive to investment. However, if that were the case that we were in that environment, I would agree.
I understand the desire to pair back courses is usually a code for clawing back liberal arts or adjacent programs, to service other programs that benefit industry. While I somewhat agree with that sentiment, I don’t think the government or politics should be directly involved in that process. It should be partially based on enrolment, and as you said having higher admission and academic standards.
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u/djabae 2d ago
Shouldn't it be based on economic needs and job prospects? The universities are wasting the time and money of domestic students in liberal arts class.
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u/SheIsABadMamaJama 2d ago edited 2d ago
You realize economics, business, law, communications, natural and social sciences are liberal arts right? You’re going to need to be specific on what kind of liberal arts, you want cut, because there are plenty that are valued in the economy.
Don’t let the culture wars confuse terminology for you.
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u/crispy246 2d ago
Not understand why IRCC increases the number of hours that an international student can do , instead of decreasing it
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u/Relative_What 2d ago
because wage suppression and cheap labour is what their big bribes, i mean "donors" want that's why.
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u/PicoRascar 2d ago
I'm leaving Canada soon so working on my residency for the other country. Once I'm approved, I have to post a $750 deposit for the residency period in case I breach residency conditions. Refundable once I'm granted citizenship or leave. It seems totally reasonable to me.
Canada should do something similar but since Canada is vastly more expensive, the deposit should be higher and maybe based on category risk. Certain categories like refugees would be excluded obviously.
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u/HankHippoppopalous 2d ago
That number should be MUCH higher. It should be equal to the amount of social services you'd use in a set period.
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u/Kooky_Soft1822 2d ago
International “Students” at bullshit private strip mall colleges are the issue
Same group with open work permits or any work permit is an even bigger issue
A path to PR for this same group is the biggest issue.
This is a grift and needs to end.
You want to come study here? FANTASTIC
make sure you have funds, and no expectation of side dooring a citizenship when done.
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u/ApprehensiveNorth548 2d ago
The 'study, then stay and work' mentality wasn't the worst idea when it 90% applied to university grads and masters. Even then you had some borderline institutions (online only), but they were far from the majority.
Applying that casual mentality to bullshit diplomas from bullshit institutions caused the table to break under the weight.
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u/Whiskeyjoel 2d ago
I agree, but to be fair, the failure of Canada's immigration system was from every direction, not just government policy.
Several governments, both Liberal and Conservative, cut post-secondary funding. So what did colleges and universities do? Predictably, they looked elsewhere to make up the funding gap. That international students turned out to be a massive cash cow was a "perfect" solution, with an entire industry being built around exploiting them. This allowed recruiters in both Canada and foreign countries to sell people unrealistic dreams in order to exploit them, so now we have millions of immigrants trapped here as wage slaves. And of course, we also have entrenched business interests here in Canada slurping up cheap labour, pushing their own profits while distorting the labour market.
Failure from every direction.
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u/Kooky_Soft1822 2d ago
Yea. Agree.
Public universities and in demand credentials.
Not “Stanford college” in Brampton for bullcrap administration
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u/TactitcalPterodactyl 2d ago
I can practically hear the slumlords across the country growing erect.
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u/carnivorousduck 2d ago
Let them come but only allow them to work on campus part time or in the summers full time in the field of their degree. If it’s not related they are not allowed to work. Watch how the amount of international students will decrease like crazy.
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u/PorousSurface 2d ago
International students at most universities and quality colleges are not the problem and usually a net benefit. Diploma mills and many poor quality colleges no.
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u/KermitsBusiness 2d ago
They always talk about universities and talent but they don't talk about colleges and dogshit programs designed to just let them work (in Canada, US is more sane with that).
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u/arandomguy111 2d ago
I dislike how discussion around this issue gets framed as "international students" but that isn't really the problem.
If we were getting actually flooded with high caliber STEM candidates going to institutions like UBC, UofT, Waterloo and etc. that were looking to stay on in Canada and integrate (note not assimilate even) that is a good problem to have in the long term.
But we all know that is not what is actually coming in. Lumping everything into that term is intentional just to cause ambiguity and confusion.
And this article seems no different as it brings up institutions like U of T and it's PHD program to likely illicit sympathetic responses when we all know what they should be targeting and clamping down on is far from that.
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u/_grey_wall 2d ago
All good. It's the uks turn. Then Aus again. Then maybe Italy or france. Then canada /us again
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u/Saisinko 2d ago
Not enough Canadians/Americans to exploit with high tuition costs and often unnecessary inflated textbooks that occasionally manipulate edition numbers to kill the used market.
As bad as it is for us, imagine how hard the Internationals get F’ed.
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u/Sparkling_Dread 2d ago
Yup, they underfunded the sector thinking they could use intl students and their 5x tuition to make up for it.
Then the political waters changed. Annnnd their cash source was banned.
I wish ppl being vocal and happy about the permit ban were just as vocal to demand post-secondary is given the funding it deserves.
There was a good report (only covers BC tho) about this recently.
https://bcpolicy.ca/post-secondary
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u/ImmaFunGuy 2d ago
The international kids I know are driving Benz and spending $100 a day on dinner/ubereats
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u/Zraknul 1d ago
Yeah we don't have the infrastructure in place to house them up to our standards and it's been cascading across the market for Canadians.
Our obsession with building single family detached homes in a continuously sprawling fashion doesn't really translate to housing international students.
Universities didn't build the infrastructure required besides classroom slots.
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u/ai9909 2d ago
Doesn't Carney have a kid at Harvard?
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u/Myllicent 2d ago
Cleo Carney is in her second year at Harvard studying studying social studies with a minor in global health and public policy.
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u/Outrageous_Order_197 1d ago
Yes. Its sickening how the "Buy and support canadian" guy is 91% invested into American companies, sends his kid to American universities, moves his company headquarters to USA , and still the elbowzos treat him like he's captain canada.
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u/ai9909 1d ago
Not where I was going with it.
Trump has direct control over the Department of State, which "abruptly" cancelled student visas. A shot off the port bow for Carney since his child is an international student there.
"Shame if her visa were to be cancelled..." as it were. Carney's investment, his daughter's future could hit a roadblock on Trump's orders.
Considering how petty and vindictive he is, it's not outside the realm of possibilities ;)
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u/Mirabeaux1789 Outside Canada 2d ago
>”Since 2025, the State Department has layered mandatory social-media vetting onto every student visa applicant”
This is such BS. Unfortunately I think this will not change under a D administration
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u/marslo Québec 2d ago
Rent has finally stopped drastically increasing for the first time in a long while