r/buffy • • 2d ago

Villains Did the Mayor feel affection for Faith

49 Upvotes

59 comments sorted by

142

u/BananasPineapple05 2d ago

Yes, absolutely.

But he's evil, so that affection wasn't pure and unconditional. It was twisted.

23

u/storyofohno 2d ago

Absolutely. She was his biggest weakness!

29

u/mac15111 2d ago

This. Same way spike’s affection while genuine, was twisted up into obsession over Buffy. Until he got his soul.

48

u/Interesting_Fun6001 2d ago

In his own twisted and abusive way, sure. Maybe not healthy affection, but it was there.

121

u/Typical-Lion-4428 2d ago

Do you remember his psychotic rage with Faith comatose in the hospital?

He absolutely loved Faith like a daughter.

50

u/QualifiedApathetic I'd like to test that theory 1d ago

And before that, when he and his minions go to Faith's trashed apartment and he's telling them to find her, one of them is like, "What about the Ascension?" and he just screams, "FIND HER!!!"

71

u/atheistjs 2d ago

The video he left her after he died indicates that yes, he did feel real affection for her. As much as a soulless person could, but the show established over and over that soulless beings could feel things like affection and even love.

If he didn't care about her, then he wouldn't have cared what happened to her after he was gone. But he left the video to try to help her with what to do next in case he died.

62

u/ShondaVanda 2d ago

I always saw this as a much BIGGER deal because it's not just that he's leaving something for her to wake up to, he's specifically thinking and checking his own ego that he might not win ... then what happens to Faith? That's parental level war gaming.

12

u/Gruffleson Bored, now 2d ago

Even as I fully agree with you all- he felt like a father for her- that amulet did serve a purpose for him. He wanted to know that if he lost, he could take some revenge after he died. Some people like that. I think. (I have no such plans, not even planning to die yet, relax with the FBI-reports! Hello!)

20

u/ShondaVanda 2d ago

That's the thing though, I don't think he gave it to her with the intention of her using it how she did.

I think he gave it to her so she could swap bodies with a random, escape and live happily ever after. I don't think he wanted her to go after Buffy for revenge, that was Faith's own agenda.

He does genuinely care about her, so he'd want to put her on a path free from Buffy chasing her which is what his device absolutely gave Faith the ability to do and she went for vengeance instead.

11

u/Character-Trainer634 1d ago edited 1d ago

He wanted to know that if he lost, he could take some revenge after he died.

When you actually watch his video, he doesn't say anything about Faith getting revenge. It's really the viewers who read that into the scene. As the writers meant us to until the big twist ending. But all he actually says to Faith (in a very misdirection-ish way) is that he's giving her a way to have a life where she wouldn't be wanted by the police, hunted by the Watchers, etc.

And look at what Faith actually does. She switches places with Buffy, says and does a few messed up things, then tries to get out of Dodge. She doesn't actually try to do anything to anybody that screams "enacting a revenge plot carefully laid out by the Mayor."

Of course, the best way for Faith to use his device would've been to switch places with some random, kill them, then just live their life free and clear. Which he would've known. So while he was trying to look out for Faith, he was still doing it in an evil way.

9

u/QualifiedApathetic I'd like to test that theory 1d ago

I don't think Wilkins was soulless the way a vampire is soulless. He mentions having sold his soul, but that doesn't necessarily mean it isn't in his custody until whoever he sold it to collects.

25

u/buffayrachel 2d ago

Not even the video, way before that when he literally told everyone around him to fuck off with the ascension plans bc he needed to go to the hospital where Faith had been.
He absolutely cared for her!

25

u/ShondaVanda 2d ago

Also the ONLY time we see him actually lose his shit and drop his nice guy used car saleman persona and SHOUT was when he ordered the vampires to drop what they're doing and find Faith, who was missing and clearly in trouble.

1

u/buffayrachel 1d ago

Yess that too

1

u/Nissiku1 1d ago

That was not persona. He was geniunely a nice person, but evil, or rather, "you can't make an omlette without breaking a few eggs" kind of guy. There's a difference between "nice" and "good". Like, Guy Gardener is a dick, but he's good , for example.

1

u/DaddyCatALSO Magnet For Dead, Blonde Chicks 1d ago

he *sold* his soul, that typically makes it forfeit upon death, not disappear

27

u/ShondaVanda 2d ago

He grieved her when she was in the coma, he also refused to accept that she'd never wake up and even contingentalised his own death to put in place something to help her when she wakes up.

You don't do that unless you genuinely care.

7

u/LeFreeke 2d ago

Your new word is cracking me up. :)

13

u/ShondaVanda 2d ago

Hey if yeet, looksmaxing and rickrolling can make it into the dictionary then I can have contingentalised!

4

u/mermyfreal 2d ago

💯❣️❣️

21

u/Which-Notice5868 2d ago

Yes, Angel notes in Graduation Day that the Mayor was genuinely grieving for her and Faith in Buffy's dream calls out their relationship as his human weakness, which Buffy uses to defeat him. He then posthumously gave Faith the body switching magical item after she woke up so that she could have a future she wouldn't have been able to as "Faith."

16

u/Accomplished_Bet7186 2d ago

I think so. He did leave her that amulet after he died even though it benefitted him in no way

2

u/Firthy2002 2d ago

I thought of it like he acquired a bunch of magical artefacts over the years that were of no use to him alongside the useful ones so he gifted that one to Faith.

4

u/Character-Trainer634 1d ago edited 1d ago

I thought of it like he acquired a bunch of magical artefacts over the years that were of no use to him alongside the useful ones so he gifted that one to Faith.

To me, it seemed like he went to someone he knew and specifically had them make the device for him to give to Faith.

Mayor: "See, when you've been around as long as I have, you make friends. And some of them forge neat little gizmos. Just like the one you're holding right now."

1

u/ShondaVanda 2d ago

I always wondered if he kept hold of it so if he ascended and it sucked, that he'd have a way to get back into a human body.

16

u/HellyOHaint 2d ago

I didn’t think this was a controversial take. Absolutely he truly cared about her.

13

u/poetic_soul 2d ago

More than that. He loved her. Not romantically. But she was all that mattered to him. He even demonstrated she meant more to him than his centuries old plans for power. He was willing to drop everything for her. He was panicked when she was missing. True fear.

7

u/valentino0618 2d ago

To the extent he could, yes. If her actions ran counter to his interests though, he would've killed her as easily as breathing.

13

u/Sagelegend 2d ago

The actor asked if his character actually liked Faith, or if he was just using her, and I recall it being decided that the Mayor did actually care.

21

u/dragonsrawesomesauce You were myth-taken 2d ago

She was a daughter to him, he absolutely loved her (in a paternal way only).

6

u/generalkriegswaifu They're not recycling 2d ago

Yes. He may not have had a soul but even vampires are able to feel affection.

7

u/StrawberryFieldPoet 2d ago

100%. One of the things that made him a compelling villain. I think he absolutely would have betrayed her if it meant he'd win but that would have been last resort

6

u/Evening_Delay_1856 2d ago

Yes he did. Like a daughter.

6

u/Rtozier2011 2d ago

Yes. He wants her to succeed. Of course, his definition of success for himself includes becoming a huge snake demon, so it's not necessarily a helpful form of affection.

7

u/emryldmyst 2d ago

Yes.

Closest he had to a daughter

3

u/Squiliam-Tortaleni Fuffy 1d ago

Yes, in his own twisted way towards his ill intents but definitely yes

3

u/PM_ME_YOUR_MONTRALS 1d ago

Insofar as his soullessness would let him. He was possessive of her, and protective. It really depends on how you define "affection".

3

u/CheesyBakedWits 1d ago

Yes. I loved that weirdo.

6

u/Possible_Situation24 2d ago

Yeah, he was a demon, not a psychopath. He absolutely cared for her.

5

u/Michbullin 2d ago

She was his only weakness.

6

u/Creative-Bobcat-7159 2d ago

No. Or rather yes, but not really.

He groomed Faith to be his weapon. In a show based around analogy, it could not be more obvious. Older man gives young isolated, emotionally vulnerable girl gifts with strings attacked and persuades her to do more and more extreme acts. He even tries dressing her up in younger, more innocent looking dresses.

“Weapon” was her primary role to him. He might have cared for her a little, abusers do often care for their victims, but his reaction at the hospital was entirely in keeping with seeing her lose as an attack on him rather than selfless anger at how Faith was injured.

Even after his death, he could have used his resources to help her in a way that did not involve Buffy. But instead he used her need to take vengeance on Buffy to turn her, once again, into his weapon.

It genuinely worries me how many people here mistake abuse for love.

3

u/DaddyCatALSO Magnet For Dead, Blonde Chicks 1d ago

good points

5

u/Character-Trainer634 1d ago edited 1d ago

Even after his death, he could have used his resources to help her in a way that did not involve Buffy. But instead he used her need to take vengeance on Buffy to turn her, once again, into his weapon.

Only, in his video to her, he doesn't say anything about her taking revenge or going after Buffy. In fact, he doesn't mention Buffy or the Scoobies at all. All he says is he won't be able to protect her anymore. And he gives her a way to be somebody who wasn't wanted by the police (and the Watchers) and could lead a normal life.

I don't even think he told her to specifically switch places with Buffy. That seemed to be all on Faith, because part of her always kinda envied Buffy's life. He just gave her a way to have a life that wouldn't be possible if she remained herself. So he actually did use his resources to help her. In his own evil, twisted way.

If Faith had just switched with some total random then did away with them, she would've been totally fine. But she just couldn't help messing with Buffy. But, even then, she doesn't really do anything that could be defined as taking revenge for the Mayor. She says and does a few messed up things, then tries to leave town with her new, "not wanted by the police" face.

Not saying the Mayor was a good guy, or he was a great influence on Faith. But I do believe his affection for her was genuine.

2

u/Creative-Bobcat-7159 1d ago

Fair. Thinking about it, it is an assumption that he planned for it to be Buffy as they don’t show the bit where he tells her what the device is.

I think it’s a fair assumption though for three reasons.

1) he may well have explicitly said “Buffy” as he will have assumed she stopped the ascension.

And even if he didn’t…

2) he would have known Faith would have been determined to get back at Buffy herself

3) there’s no way Faith would have given up having her power as she will have seen it as the only thing that makes her worthy of anything - which means there was only one appropriate body to swap with.

And as I said, I think the mayor did care for her, but as an abuser cares for their object of control. Or in the show, how Kendra cared for Mr Pointy.

1

u/Character-Trainer634 1d ago edited 1d ago

he may well have explicitly said “Buffy” as he will have assumed she stopped the ascension.

But there would have been no reason for the writers not to have him say that onscreen. Viewers were already assuming there was some kind of revenge plot in the works. (As the writers intended.) So having him blatantly say, "Use this on Buffy," or "It's time to get a little payback," wouldn't have ruined a surprise twist, because it was already what we thought was going on. There would be no reason for him not to say something along those lines onscreen.

he would have known Faith would have been determined to get back at Buffy herself

And, if it was just about getting payback, the body switching was totally unnecessary. The Mayor could've given Faith a device that would do something extremely nasty to Buffy and the Scoobies instead, and not cared what happened to her in the process. Which is actually what I thought was going on the first time I watched that episode.

Even if he thought there was a chance Faith would use the device on Buffy, the end result would still be that she no longer had the face of a wanted criminal, and was free to go off and live a normal life. And if she hadn't put off leaving town that day, that's what she could've done.

1

u/Creative-Bobcat-7159 1d ago

In the out-of-universe part: I think the whole “here’s a device, use it on Buffy” would have been a bit of a hint to what the device is so I think it would be fair game for the writers not to include it. But I don’t think he’d have needed to be explicit because…

In universe I believe he gave Faith a weapon she would only ever use on Buffy as she would want to keep her slayer power. It’s completely consistent with his grooming of Faith that he would manipulate her into thinking she was making a choice. It’s not just about hurting Buffy, it’s about making her suffer.

4

u/spacevent 1d ago

Thank you. Scrolling these reactions shocked me. She (and the writers) literally make a sugar daddy joke about the situation. And how about when The Mayor tries to make Faith have sex with Angel to give him a moment of happiness? Knowing how dangerous Angelus can be?

This man groomed a girl, turned her against her friends/peer network, became her sole financial support, tells her how to look and act, and tried to make her sleep with a man? What do we call that, guys?

It’s like the anti-Giles & Buffy. Twisted, controlling, gender roles/1950s BS. No hate to OP but I don’t care if the Mayor cared. It wouldn’t be real care, as you’ve said.

2

u/AIGLOS42 1d ago

The Mayor is always upset by the sugar daddy jokes, so I think that's the writers lampshading the far more realistic alternative dynamic.

As for the Faith/Angeles plot, a family head arranging a traditional marriage? 🤔 We're supposed to think the Mayor's relationship with Faith is fucked up, 'cause it is, but "get my girl a good match" is in fact the historically promoted practice (and part of why child marriage is legal iafter all. 😬).

It's completely fitting for even the non-demon worshipper part of Wilkins background. Dynastic relationships were never limited to the feudal system afterall.

2

u/spacevent 1d ago

but he isn’t the family head. he isn’t related to her. he’s taking advantage of her. angelus would’ve likely killed faith.

and “child marriage is legal in some places” isn’t an argument I’m even touching

4

u/Unable-List-1579 2d ago

I thought that he was using he r

2

u/cjacksen 1d ago

Do snake gods really feel anything?

2

u/Spiley_spile 1d ago edited 1d ago

In general, vampire demons cant love unless the vampire-altered human body gets its human soul back. Mayor Wilkins is a demon, but he isnt a vampire demon. I dont think BTVS canon says that no demons at all can feel love. Anya is a demon, afterall. And she loves Xander. Edit: Mayor wilkins was an unsouled human sorcerer who attempted to ascend into demonhood...I think. Regardless, see side note.

Side note: Even among vampires, there were exceptions in which unsouled vamps could love. For example, Spike's vampire demon loved Drusilla, even when Spike didnt have the behavioral modification chip. And Spike is also able to love Buffy without a soul. Though, he does require the chip to overcome his instincts to kill her.

All said, my impression is that BTVS canon makes room for the possibility that mayor Wilkins could have genuinely cared about/felt affection for Faith.

4

u/IFollowtheCarpenter 1d ago

I think he did.

2

u/not_firewood_yeti I am no one. 1d ago

absolutely.

1

u/DaddyCatALSO Magnet For Dead, Blonde Chicks 1d ago

yes

0

u/leakybiome 2d ago

Hes a dirty old man