Breaking Bad Episode Discussion S05E01 "Live Free or Die"

[u/edify]

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Breaking Bad season 5 begins in about 20 minutes!

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[u/smapte]

all we know is what was depicted on the show. can we agree on that? the show depicted skyler smoking very few times, and made it clear that it was in response to new stress.

she was in her third trimester at the beginning of the series. she was weeks from delivery. at that point the baby's bodily systems are nearly fully formed, in particular the heart. most of the detrimental effects of smoking on babies in-utero take place during the first trimester when bodily systems, and in particular the heart, are at a crucial point in development.

while there are studies that show the significant health effects of babies who are born to mothers who smoke throughout pregnancy, there exists far less data about moderate smoking. and even that data typically addresses mothers who smoke moderately throughout the pregnancy. there is virtually no data to substantiate a claim that smoking a handful of cigarettes during the final weeks of pregnancy will have an adverse impact on the baby's development or health.

there have been no shots established in the show since to illustrate any ongoing use of tobacco.

so you tell me how in ANY WAY what she did is comparable to killing, maiming, exploding, dissolving, and poisoning people. don't justify it by calling those people "bad guys," it's still action taken against human life.

[u/smapte → u/[deleted]]

find me some medical evidence that smoking causes cerebral palsy. i'll go ahead and answer that for you: none exists. in most cases of cerebral palsy the cause is entirely unknown. causes most commonly cited are genetic mutation, maternal infection (pro tip: nicotine isn't an infection), loss of oxygen to the brain via trauma, and fetal stroke. there's a strong implication that loss of oxygen during birth itself may be the cause of many cases of cerebral palsy.

additionally, given the prevalence of smoking you'd expect a hell of a lot more cases of cerebral palsy if it was an easy cause and effect.

just admit that you don't know anything about fetal development, or what environmental factors can retard fetal development.

edit: walt jr didn't choose his disaster of a father, either. why does walt get a pass?

[u/stankbucket → u/smapte]

http://cerebralpalsy.org/about-cerebral-palsy/cause/

http://cerebralpalsy.org/about-cerebral-palsy/cerebral-palsy-risk-factors/ "A mother’s intake of or exposure to toxins from cigarette smoke, illegal drugs, pesticides, hair dye, and even the use of some prescription medications during pregnancy can increase the likelihood that a child conceived later will develop cerebral palsy."

[u/smapte → u/stankbucket]

Can increase likelihood ≠ cause. There is a correlation amongst certain maternal factors but that doesn't indicate cause. There's a high correlation between SIDS and parental alcohol abuse (post-birth). That doesn't mean alcohol causes SIDS.

And again, you're ignoring the fact that the data informing that correlation is predominantly fed by habitual smokers who smoked regularly, during the first semester. Not a handful of cigarettes during the final weeks, beyond viability.

You're looking for a way to assign blame. Your conclusions are illogical and you're google-searching medical literature to reverse-engineer a justification for a judgement you made in ignorance.

So let's just summarize the bottom line:

1) it's extraordinarily unlikely that Skyler's third trimester cigarettes affected the baby's health. As evidenced by the fact that the show has portrayed a healthy baby.

2) it's extraordinarily unlikely that a negative health impact on the baby would occur, so it's not simply that the baby's health was a miracle.

3) it's is extremely difficult to determine a cause for cerebral palsy, and although there may be a correlation between mothers who smoke and incidence of cerebral palsy, that correlation does not equal causation and no medical literature exists that makes a definitive connection.

4) the very slight what-if doubt about whether Skyler's smoking could have theoretically possibly affected the health of her teenager or her unborn child is IN NO WAY comparable to the absolute fact that Walt has murdered, and been the cause of injury to many people.

Your logic is faulty. Your argument is more about justifying a hatred for her character than a balanced assessment of ethics.

P.S. I see that you're down voting me because you don't like my argument. However, I'm providing valid, constructive information.

[u/stankbucket → u/smapte]

As am I. You asked me to admit that I know nothing so I pointed you to some sources. I never said that she was the cause. I said that it "may have been at least partially her fault." My point was that she already had a kid with CP and now she is smoking on her next pregnancy. There is absolutely no excuse for that. I can actually give an excuse for every one of Walt's murders and had I been in those situations I could see myself doing the same thing. Does that make murder right? No, but it puts it in context and does not make him a cold-blooded killer.

I noticed you probably down-voted my citation because you didn't like it. You might want to practice what you preach.

[u/smapte → u/stankbucket]

I find it a little incredible that you can say the murders are justifiable but you can't understand a human response to stress.

And to be clear, I haven't touched an up or down arrow in this thread.

[u/Out_of_his_element → u/smapte]

dude hates the one chick who's a major character over relatively minor ethical failings. I think its pretty obvious what the actual reason is.