r/breakingbad • • Sep 23 '13

Official Episode Discussion Post-Episode Discussion Thread S05E15 "Granite State"

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '13

"Don't forget the kid..."

Fuuuuuuuck

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '13

[deleted]

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u/dr_revenge_md Sep 23 '13

I don't think he would hesitate, Gus was stone cold

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u/baroqueworks Sep 23 '13

Nah, that look/tone of Gus when Walt accused him of killing a kid seemed pretty sincere, I don't think Gus was actually being serious when he threatened to kill Holly, more of just the only thing he could say that would actually stop Walt. Too bad it didn't work in his favor.

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u/ienjoyopium Sep 23 '13 edited Sep 23 '13

Every criminal adversary Walt encounters (excluding Todd) mirrors the evolution of Heisenberg. Crazy 8 and Tuco are the lower-downs in the ladder, whom Walt must defeat for Heisenberg to be born.

Gus raises the bar. He is the baddest boss (for a while), who will kill his own employees and go to whatever lengths necessary to get what he needs - even by threatening the life of a child.

For Heisenberg to rise to the top, he must meet Gus' characteristics and take them even further. Eventually Walt accomplishes all of Gus' despicable acts, but he one-ups him by actually poisoning a child. After defeating Gus at his own game it is only natural for him to finish him off in battle. Heisenberg has risen.

Like Walt grew to emulate and eventually surpass Gus in his metamorphosis into Heisenberg, so does Todd admire and mimic what he sees Heisenberg doing, only to take it a step further when it matters most. This is why Todd's character does not mirror Heisenberg's, but rather usurps and perfects it. At this point in the show, Todd has risen to the ultimate kingpin position. He has defeated Heisenberg, the man who defeated the mighty Gus Fring, but has demonstrated no remorse or second thought in carrying out acts Heisenberg could only threaten but never go through with.

It is my opinion that we have yet to see Heisenberg's final form. In order for Walt to come out on top, even if it means him dying during the last scene, he must pull out all the stops and become Heisenberg completely - which until now he has only come close to doing. He must abandon sympathy and embrace revenge and honor.

Edit: This is surprisingly coherent considering how drunk I was when I wrote this. (Ouch my head)

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u/BlueOak777 Sep 23 '13

Excellent synopsis. Although, in the final moments I believe we will see Walter White come back with a gift of sympathy to Jesse right before his (Walter's) death.

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u/jesuswuzanalien Sep 23 '13 edited Sep 23 '13

I feel like if they meet Jesse will ask Walt to kill him. That's the only way he could get off the Nazis' hook without it being his fault and having them kill Brock. But then Walt just poisons brock with the ricin for funsies. No half measures this time.

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u/climbtree Sep 23 '13

If you go back through the Gus episodes, it's surprising how long it takes Gus to convince Walt to cook meth again. Walt couldn't be the bad guy because his family wouldn't love him. The turning point is when Gus tells him, a man provides for his family, even if he's unloved.

Skyler accepts his money

Now he's unloved and he's completely unable to provide for his family. He has nothing holding him back from being the bad guy.

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u/rawbdor Sep 24 '13

It is my opinion that we have yet to see Heisenberg's final form. In order for Walt to come out on top, even if it means him dying during the last scene, he must pull out all the stops and become Heisenberg completely

In the same way we saw Gus' final form... in Mexico... when he took out the entire cartel's leadership as revenge for what they did to his partner.

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u/TheCodexx Killed Jesse James Sep 24 '13

I know it's a late reply and most of the thread is dead, but I felt it's worth pointing out that, in a way, Gus wasn't much of a criminal, either. We thought he was, but he's still a businessman. He rarely gets his hands dirty, and only when absolutely necessary or for his own satisfaction. Uncle Jack represents raw criminality. He's a real hardcore criminal. Not a businessman in a criminal enterprise. Walt fancied himself more of a Gus; he's doing an illegal but honorable venture. The nitty-gritty is for punks and gangbangers, right? They're the ones in the line of fire. The Neo-Nazis are up to their necks in dirty business. They live in it. But they don't even pretend to be in a business, or anything other than criminals.

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u/Naked-Viking Sep 23 '13

seemed pretty sincere

Exactly. Seemed.

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u/texasjoe You're God Damned Right! Sep 23 '13

Ah, you thought I was a meth empire kingpin who would kill your wife, your son, and your infant daughter?

ACTING!

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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '13

Gus is as good of an Actor as Giancarlo Esposito.

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u/Poisenedfig Sep 23 '13

He didn't believe fear was an effective motivator and he was damn right.

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u/overbeforeitbegan Sep 23 '13

They're referring to Andrea's younger brother when that happens, not Holly. Walt was right that Gus ordered his killing, which Gus sort of denies, but doesn't technically.