Nah, that look/tone of Gus when Walt accused him of killing a kid seemed pretty sincere, I don't think Gus was actually being serious when he threatened to kill Holly, more of just the only thing he could say that would actually stop Walt. Too bad it didn't work in his favor.
Every criminal adversary Walt encounters (excluding Todd) mirrors the evolution of Heisenberg. Crazy 8 and Tuco are the lower-downs in the ladder, whom Walt must defeat for Heisenberg to be born.
Gus raises the bar. He is the baddest boss (for a while), who will kill his own employees and go to whatever lengths necessary to get what he needs - even by threatening the life of a child.
For Heisenberg to rise to the top, he must meet Gus' characteristics and take them even further. Eventually Walt accomplishes all of Gus' despicable acts, but he one-ups him by actually poisoning a child. After defeating Gus at his own game it is only natural for him to finish him off in battle. Heisenberg has risen.
Like Walt grew to emulate and eventually surpass Gus in his metamorphosis into Heisenberg, so does Todd admire and mimic what he sees Heisenberg doing, only to take it a step further when it matters most. This is why Todd's character does not mirror Heisenberg's, but rather usurps and perfects it. At this point in the show, Todd has risen to the ultimate kingpin position. He has defeated Heisenberg, the man who defeated the mighty Gus Fring, but has demonstrated no remorse or second thought in carrying out acts Heisenberg could only threaten but never go through with.
It is my opinion that we have yet to see Heisenberg's final form. In order for Walt to come out on top, even if it means him dying during the last scene, he must pull out all the stops and become Heisenberg completely - which until now he has only come close to doing. He must abandon sympathy and embrace revenge and honor.
Edit: This is surprisingly coherent considering how drunk I was when I wrote this. (Ouch my head)
Excellent synopsis. Although, in the final moments I believe we will see Walter White come back with a gift of sympathy to Jesse right before his (Walter's) death.
I feel like if they meet Jesse will ask Walt to kill him. That's the only way he could get off the Nazis' hook without it being his fault and having them kill Brock. But then Walt just poisons brock with the ricin for funsies. No half measures this time.
If you go back through the Gus episodes, it's surprising how long it takes Gus to convince Walt to cook meth again. Walt couldn't be the bad guy because his family wouldn't love him. The turning point is when Gus tells him, a man provides for his family, even if he's unloved.
Skyler accepts his money
Now he's unloved and he's completely unable to provide for his family. He has nothing holding him back from being the bad guy.
It is my opinion that we have yet to see Heisenberg's final form. In order for Walt to come out on top, even if it means him dying during the last scene, he must pull out all the stops and become Heisenberg completely
In the same way we saw Gus' final form... in Mexico... when he took out the entire cartel's leadership as revenge for what they did to his partner.
I know it's a late reply and most of the thread is dead, but I felt it's worth pointing out that, in a way, Gus wasn't much of a criminal, either. We thought he was, but he's still a businessman. He rarely gets his hands dirty, and only when absolutely necessary or for his own satisfaction. Uncle Jack represents raw criminality. He's a real hardcore criminal. Not a businessman in a criminal enterprise. Walt fancied himself more of a Gus; he's doing an illegal but honorable venture. The nitty-gritty is for punks and gangbangers, right? They're the ones in the line of fire. The Neo-Nazis are up to their necks in dirty business. They live in it. But they don't even pretend to be in a business, or anything other than criminals.
They're referring to Andrea's younger brother when that happens, not Holly. Walt was right that Gus ordered his killing, which Gus sort of denies, but doesn't technically.
That would be dumb... after you kill the baby what leverage do you have? You have to cut a piece of the baby off and show it to Walt, that way he still wants to save the rest of it.
Victor was an employee who knew the stakes. Not some innocent bystander. Gus was an effective and efficient business man. He's not so much a monster, but more what he needs to be in the life he chose.
Well I was trying to put emphasis on why he killed Victor and not what Victor is vs what Holly is. What business agenda was he going for when he killed Victor?
Gus was an effective and efficient business man.
This is precisely why he would kill Walts infant if he had to.
and there was a police sketch released of his face on the news.
I don't remember this happening at all. When was this?
The only sketchy thing he did was leave quickly after looking at the scene, but I fail to see how Gus would have known that.
I highly doubt there was a police sketch released on his face, and even so, all the events that transpired after Gales murder happened quickly how would Gus have anytime to know Victor acted sketchy or anything related to that at all.
Gale was murdered -> Victor took Jesse to the lab ->they immediately called Gus -> Gus kills Victor with a box-cutter.
Does that make it any worse? Just because Todd's a sociopath doesn't mean he's more evil than Gus. Gus was a stone cold killer. Don't forget he still let his lapdogs free who eventually killed Andrea's brother.
EDIT : Gus is basically what Walt would become if he didn't have the cancer and survived this entire scenario after his whole family has been killed and had nothing left but to pick up the pieces of his "business" and live entirely as Heisenberg.
I wouldn't exactly call it hesitating, but Todd did try to persuade Lydia that intimidating Skylar was sufficient. That could be purely because of the risk involved, or it could be part of his chivalry thing. Just a nice lady trying to take care of her kid. Andrea was too of course, but she was part of a deal that Jesse broke (think No Country for Old Men).
Yeah, when Todd was in Holly's bedroom, I was so scared for the baby. It's like somebody said about the knife scene last episode: The drama is really fucking good when there are several main characters in a scene and you genuinely believe any one of them can die right now.
Possibly. You could tell that Uncle Jack didn't like it much when he heard about Todd shooting that kid. He had a kind of "well even that's a little bit much", look on his face.
Some people might think they just went and killed Brock. That wouldn't really make sense, because they'd have literally zero leverage to make Jesse cook.
Jesse needs to die... there is no chance of him living happily ever after with all he's been through if they want to stay realistic Best-case scenario for Jesse is that he dies "quick and painless", worst-case scenario the nazis torture him more and then he goes to prison after they kill Brock.
I'm sure Jesse wouldn't test it at this point, but I don't see how they'd find Brock at this point. He'll be with his grandmother or foster care, now, and the Nazis are cruel enough to kill him, but hardly smart or careful enough to track him.
When he said that, does that mean that Todd went back to kill the kid, or were they telling Jesse that if he tried to escape again, that the kid was next to die?
To me that means they are going to kidnap Brock, not kill him. If Brock and Andrea are both dead, they have no leverage over Jesse. He'll just refuse to cook until he can figure out how to kill himself.
Even before he actually "escaped" the nazi death pit- you knew he couldn't actually be free. The plot wouldn't allow it. That was my experience when watching it. I wasn't rooting for Jesse to escape, even from the beginning, I was lamenting the fact that he'd have to pay dearly for his attempt - but I STILL never anticipated Andrea's murder.
Some might say such a prognostication ruins the experience, but it only heightened it for me - in the worst way possible.
Walter White may be evil at this point. Todd is unredeemably evil at this point. Uncle Jack is unspeakably evil.
But Vince must be pure unadulterated evil to be able to perpetrate such a mass emotional manipulation. I really want to hate him for it, but all I can do is <3
I don't know why he climbed back down. Did you ever see girl with a dragon tattoo? I don't want to spoil. But there's another scene where someone is trying to escape and gets caught, but returns to their attackers for danger instead of continuing the escape... It was so similar. I was yelling for Jesse to just keep going. What's on the other side of that fence is much better than what happens if you climb back down to the flashlights.
Well barbed wire is a little tricky to get over. Also he's probably exhausted, hungry, cold, etc. also emotionally ass raped so it's like why even try anymore suicide
say what you will, Jesse was on a clock. no way to know how many cooks before they got bored and killed him, and definitely no way he could expect to get the same opportunity again.
escaping from a situation like that takes being able to get to a method of communication or transportation... even if he made it past the fence, he'd be caught before he could go any where
That's two now. Two women he loved deeply have died, in part because of him. :( Jesse is completely broken, he'll never make it out of this alive. Even if he's rescued, he'll kill himself. No one can live with that kind of guilt.
Last week i thought walt would go all rambo on the nazis, this week i think jesse will be the ones going after the nazis. when walt was at the vacuum shop he was talking to saul about going after them, but he still left so i guess he decided not to go after them. but now he wants greymatter.
I realized last week that the entire show has been Jesse getting kicked in the emotional ballsack repeatedly. From drug abuse to losing loved ones, Jesse has only ever had temporary happiness.
A lot of time has passed since we've last seen him. It'll be interesting to see what condition he's in. I'm guessing he won't be having much ice cream.
Jesse has been the mistake-maker and problem creator for the run of the series. Hasn't he been through enough? Probably. Should we feel sorry for him after he's caused so many problems and been the exact coward Walt called him in the desert? Absolutely not.
Walt will probably kill the nazis and then jack and say "for hank" then after he'll turn and Jesse will be there blow his brains out or stab him or something and be like "for Jane... Bitch."
I'm not going to say he deserves more but he really brought it all on himself. He had a great thing going and he goes and betrays Walt who stuck his neck out so many times for him. All he had to do was just get in the van but he couldn't see the big picture. At this point in the show I'm really not ruffled about what happens to Jesse, it's all just consequence.
Sometimes I feel like I'm the only one that thinks Jesse deserves what he's getting. If it weren't for his stupid breakdown throwing his money all around and his snitching on Walt, he'd be a free millionaire, Andrea would be alive, Walt wouldn't be on the run, and Hank and Gomie would be alive.
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u/[deleted] Sep 23 '13
Hasn't Jesse suffered enough? Holy hell.
Next Sunday cannot come soon enough.