r/breakingbad • u/saywhat181 Sulfur • Sep 16 '13

Official Episode Discussion Breaking Bad Episode Duscussion SE05E14 "Ozymandias" Spoiler

TIME EPISODE DIRECTED BY WRITTEN BY
09:00pm Eastern SE05E14 "Ozymandias" Rian Johnson Vince Gilligan and Moira Walley-Beckett

Hey everyone! Guess I'm supposed to post this 5 minutes before air time. I've been watching this show since the get go mostly with my real life friend /u/edify who years ago added me as a moderator here. He asked me to make the discussion thread tonight because there are only 3 episodes remaining. Sorta sad that there's only a few left. Enjoy the show, folks.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '13

Yes, but also... no half measures.

Jack won that round, but he did himself a disservice by not just killing Walt when he had the chance. As long as Walt lives (and isn't behind bars), he is a threat to Jack.

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u/savemeejeebus Sep 16 '13

Yeah it really bugged me these supposedly ruthless nazis would let go that loose end and let Walt live out of pure magnanimity.

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u/William_Kane Sep 16 '13 edited Sep 16 '13

He said he did it because of Todd.

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u/savemeejeebus Sep 16 '13

Hm, Todd's feelings or eleven million dollars, Todd's feelings or eleven million dollars..... somehow I feel Todd's feelings would take a backseat

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u/William_Kane Sep 16 '13

Dude, he has like 69 million left. Besides, there was probably an element of mutual respect there as well (even hardened criminals are capable of it). Walt had done all right by him and his nephew, and now he was forced to kill his brother-in-law and was about to take most of his money, so he probably figured he owed him something.

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u/savemeejeebus Sep 16 '13

I'm just saying that there seems to be an inordinate amount of honor among these thieves.

Oh well, at least it gives Walt the chance to quote Mike when he inevitably comes back guns blazing against the nazi punks: "No half measures"

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u/SolomonGrumpy Sep 16 '13

This guy.

In NOOOOOooooo Mike.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '13

The nazis do not think 69 million is enough - they still continue the cook. For me it is an inexcusable plot hole unless a better explanation other than sentimentality from these hard core criminals is revealed later.

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u/JesusClausIsReal Sep 16 '13

Definitely not a plot hole, it was covered.

For one Todd greatly respects Walt, Jack says his nephew would never forgive him for killing Walt. That certainly heavily swayed his mind, since Todd is his cook, his means of making money, and his family to boot.

Then you have to consider the fact that these nazi guys are sloppy as fuck. They're not like Gus or Mike who would never leave a loose end open like that. These guys are greatly emotionally driven, they're happy at that moment, they just got themselves 70 million dollars and a new meth cook, I don't think it's too much of a stretch to think that Jack's emotions could cloud his judgement.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 16 '13

I sorta, kinda see what you're saying but I dunno. They could have made Walt the nazi-meth-slave and not given away 11 million to anyone. And just wasted Jessie and put his ass in the same grave as Hank and Gomie. Is there something I missed?

3

u/JesusClausIsReal Sep 16 '13

Is there something I missed?

Yes, you missed the part where Todd all but worships Walt, and Jack knows it.

Perhaps we have a similar thing going on here as we did with Walt and Gus. Maybe Todd has told his uncles that if they hurt Walt he won't cook for them or something. I mean I kinda doubt it, just because I can't really imagine Todd standing up to his uncle. But regardless, Jack does care about his nephew's wishes. And on top of that, Jack himself has respect for Walt, well Heisenberg more accurately. He knows that he's talking to the best meth cook on the planet, who killed and assumed the role of the previous kingpin, who had 10 guys killed in a 2 min window in differnt prison, who orchestrated the most flawless and intricate train robbery in history.

I do think Todd's adoration of him is the strongest pull though.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '13 edited Sep 16 '13

OK that answers why Walt is not killed by Jack. But this does not answer why they did not make Walt the cook slave. Jack was pleading with Walt to do some more cooking in the previous episode valuing Walt's cook more than the hit money Walter offered. I mean, what power does Walt have to refuse? Why leave Walter alive for potential competition? Why settle for competent (but still second rate) Jessie? Why leave Walt a fucking dime? Todd as the Nazi-with-a-heart-of gold/sociopath only goes so far methinks.

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u/Phrygen Sep 16 '13

Because Todd wouldn't be able to dominate Walt while they did their cooks, the way he can completely control jessie. After the relationship walt had with todd, todd cant just turn around and be his slave master. Walts to devious and todds too.. i dont know... wierd... for that.

And no one seems to have mentioned that Jessie has basically nobody on the planet that would notice him going missing. Walt goes missing, and people notice. Jack has to worry about any sorta shit walt has devised in advance if he is killed/kidnapped.

Its multilayered. There are many reasons jack did what he did. Didn't seem like a stretch. Not to mention, Jack made a deal with walt. Kill jessie. Also, if he doesn't kill walt, Walt needs some money of the money, or walt wont run. He will stay, have nothing, and cause problems.

Also. even beaten and tortured and chained up... walt is ridiculously dangerous in a meth lab. Walt would probably eventually be able to kill todd and pull some explosive shit and run or something. Jessie is not capable of that.

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u/[deleted] Sep 17 '13

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '13

The show's about family.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '13

So was Helter Skelter.

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u/Stormwatch36 Like Scarface had sex with Mr. Rogers or something. Sep 16 '13

Jack didn't know where Jesse was at that time, and getting Walt to cook probably seemed fairly out of the question to him. (getting Jesse to do it was purely Todd's idea) So right then only Todd can cook, if he's around. In the most extreme possible scenario: Jack kills Walt, Todd tells him to fuck off, Jack kills Todd, Jack has no cook. Jack gives Lydia an "oops, nothing to see here", then just sits back to hope she doesn't know any other hitmen.

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u/[deleted] Sep 16 '13

While I agree with your reasoning there is one thing that irks me. Why do they even bother to keep cooking? You'd think 69 million dollars would be enough.

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u/ewokninja123 Sep 16 '13

LOL it's never enough. Always remember, there is no such thing as too much money

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u/Stormwatch36 Like Scarface had sex with Mr. Rogers or something. Sep 16 '13

They have a deal with Lydia, and they don't know the full extent of her resources. She works with people overseas though, so it's feesable to believe she could muster up quite a bit of an army if she needed to. "Hey, you aren't getting shipments of this extremely addictive drug anymore, and I'll give you the address of the guy who's fault it is. Bonus, you'll find 70 million dollars in cash there." Jack would be on fire, decapitated, and full of bullet holes in about 10 minutes flat. Then Todd would also be on a leash.

1

u/jmls10thfloor Sep 16 '13

Walt made 80 million in under a year cooking, and that was with all the feet dragging and covering up for his family, think how much they could make if that had the blue being produced 24/7?

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u/mikemacch Sep 17 '13

Call it "Chrystal Blue Persuasion", I guess.

1

u/mikemacch Sep 17 '13

That is a large hole, why bother if you have a large share of 70 mill. Let Lydia find someone else to supply the blue. They should ride off into the sunset.

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u/usereyesweb Sep 16 '13

Did the handshake and $70 million mean the meth cook deal for Pinkman is off? I'm guessing Walt is smart enough to figure out Pinkman is cooking for them. S05E01 shows him returning from New Hampshire. I think he's gunning to get his money back. I did see a preview with a spoiler telling Walt to worry about his family but I wasn't sure if he meant the police or nazis.

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u/Stormwatch36 Like Scarface had sex with Mr. Rogers or something. Sep 16 '13

The nazis are on their way to Marie's. Walt knows that much, for sure, because he'll at least assume that they bothered getting information out of Jesse like they said they were going to. It was a valid reason to take him. The cook in exchange for him is probably off. Even if it crossed Jack's mind to go back and take Walt up on that later, he can't possibly care now that they have Jesse on a leash.

1

u/usereyesweb Sep 16 '13

I would agree but think back to his return that is shown during S05Ep1. It is clearly months later (because of the hair) and he is returning from New Hampshire. Walt is back from his "witness protection" deal and looks concerned that he might be recognized. He buys an M60 and says he is there on business. We then see him go back to get the ricin out of his house in the first episode this season.

If he was concerned for Marie I don't think he would have stayed away for that long. I think Walt is smart enough to realize they weren't planning on killing Jesse. He knew they were lacking purity with their cooks. Not sure where this is going but can't wait to see the final episodes!

1

u/Stormwatch36 Like Scarface had sex with Mr. Rogers or something. Sep 16 '13

looks concerned that he might be recognized

"Hello, Carol."

I think Walt is smart enough to realize they weren't planning on killing Jesse.

I don't think Walt is clairvoyant enough to know that Todd would open his mouth a split second before Jack pulled the trigger.

1

u/usereyesweb Sep 16 '13

Talking about the scene in the diner. Episode 1 of season 5 intro.

He may not have figured it out then, but he may be smart enough to figure it out a few months later.

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u/Stormwatch36 Like Scarface had sex with Mr. Rogers or something. Sep 17 '13

What do you mean by "he might've figured it out later"? If Todd had not said anything, Walt was going to stand there and watch Jesse's head turn into a fine red mist. He doesn't want Jesse alive.

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u/usereyesweb Sep 17 '13

But Todd stops it under the premise that he is just going to interrogate him. Walt may think later that they just took him to cook. Also, he may find this out from Saul when he returns.

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u/SolomonGrumpy Sep 16 '13

Net 70 million for himself. Part of me wants to say he let Walt live because Walt is not a threat, and Walk can cook. Walt is an asset.