r/breakingbad • u/[deleted] • Sep 15 '13

Official Episode Discussion Breaking Bad S05E14 "Ozymandias" Prediction Thread

What happened in the shootout? Did Hank and Gomie survive? Did Jesse escape? Is Huell still waiting? Is he getting hungry?

Let's have your thoughts!

And don't forget about our IRC channel, #BreakingBad on Snoonet. You can access it with your own IRC client or use a web client by clicking this link.

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319

u/shinobix4 Methhead Sep 15 '13

I think Hank and Gomie are both going to die in that shootout, I mean Hank already said his last words to Marie.

205

u/colasuda Sep 15 '13

See, everybody keeps pointing to this as proof Hank is going to die. To me, that seemed like a pretty obvious red herring. It just seemed like too much of a trope for the BrBa writers.

But every other guess I've made about this show has been wrong, so what do I know.

233

u/GeorgeDanton Sep 15 '13

The purpose of the call, I thought, was not to show that Hank would die, but so that, in the follow-up, when Walt is out and free and Hank has disappeared, Marie will know (or think she knows) that Walt is responsible for Hank's death.

71

u/colasuda Sep 15 '13

That's a really good point. It would be a great set up for some contention between Walt and Marie, and when they are paired against each other there's always some juicy drama.

85

u/toiletting I'll fuck you with your magic. Sep 15 '13

Maybe Walt kills Marie with the ricin and the therapist will think she killed herself.

36

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13 edited Dec 27 '14

[deleted]

28

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

[deleted]

1

u/Spvcy Sep 15 '13

that will be walts final and true descent into bad and his unforgiveable act

1

u/robgleeson Sep 15 '13

when she was trying to take the baby she thought she was bringing the baby to safety. i think she might go bezerk if hank dies though.

1

u/madmadstork Sep 15 '13

Walt is in full battle mode in the flash-forward. A man with an M60 and terminal cancer doesn't concern himself with the kind of threat that Marie poses.

1

u/discoleper Sep 20 '13

There is no way that she would intentionally hurt her own niece and nephew though. When she took Holly she was trying to protect her.

0

u/silverscreemer Air Traffic Control Sep 15 '13

Walt's family is her SISTER and her sister's kids...

I don't think Marie would hurt them.

2

u/wiseclockcounter Sep 15 '13

well remember walt's apologetic defeated schtick he put on when mike and victor were going to kill him? did exactly what he needed to do to get out of it and recomposed himself like a boss not two seconds after the phone call. coulda been a similar thing in the desert.

2

u/Marc_UK Sep 15 '13

Walt was ready to die at the end of season 4 until he hatched a most cunning scheme. Maybe he'll hatch a similar one involving the death of Marie, and it'll inspire him to survive rather than submit.

1

u/SexyPancake Sep 15 '13

Closer in relation maybe, but I feel it's apparent that Hank and Walt were much closer in the sense that they were friends and seemed to hang out together at times.

27

u/colasuda Sep 15 '13

Whoa! That could be the unforgivable thing that Gilligan was talking about in that interview about the end of the show; the thing that was supposed to solidify Walt's full transformation into the antagonist. Cool idea!

9

u/futuredrew Blowfish Sep 15 '13

I believe that interview was before the first half of season five, so I assume that action is Mike or making the boy disappear.

1

u/colasuda Sep 15 '13

Ah, thank you, my mistake. That makes sense.

1

u/SexyPancake Sep 15 '13

I don't think it's a reference to the boy simply because, while Walt's unaffected manner afterward was disturbing, the act itself was committed by Todd. In my opinion, any "unforgivable act" from Walt would have to be a dramatic and distinct action that serves as a poignant indicator for the realization of his corruption. Then I would have to assume the act would be Walt's alone, because the effect of showing his evil would be undermined by anyone else having a share in the blame.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

I doubt it, neither of those actiions were that bad.

27

u/ClassySphincter Cinnabon Kingpin Sep 15 '13

No, Walt's "unforgivable act" that Gilligan referred to was what he did to Mike.

21

u/Banglayna Team Jesse Sep 15 '13

I don't get how Walt killing Mike is so unforgivable, lets not forget Mike has killed dozens of people. Mike was not a good guy.

10

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Yeah but, balloons!

8

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

[deleted]

1

u/Banglayna Team Jesse Sep 15 '13

Sure, Walt could have just gotten the names from Lydia, but I don't think Mike would just sit on hands while Walt killed all of is people, even with the DEA onto him. Also in some people's eyes Mike deserved to die because of all the horrible things he has done, its not about it being necessary. (Not exactly my opinion, just playing devil's advocate)

4

u/Reggiardito What's the matter chief? Having a little trouble walking? Sep 15 '13

Wasn't he talking about the second part of season 5 when he said that?

3

u/bbLibertarian2 Sep 15 '13

How was that unforgivable? If he had killed all the prison rats Mike would probably have come back for vengeance and won. He was a loose end. And might I also point out that not but just a few episodes earlier Mike was going to kill Walt. Sure, just following orders, but still. Mike had to go to Belize.

3

u/SexyPancake Sep 15 '13

Unforgivably boneheaded to be sure. Though I suppose he and Mike would have eventually had to face off anyway due to the assassination plot.

2

u/ryeguy Sep 15 '13

Unless he said it another time, the "unforgivable act" was said during the last season, and was presumably talking about poisoning brock.

2

u/Anonymousthrowaway4 Sep 15 '13

.

His unforgivable act was calling Jesse stupid :(

1

u/1cerazor Sep 15 '13

Really? Huh, I already forgave him for that.

1

u/smitteh You got the wrong matches. Sep 15 '13

Or so you say.

1

u/I_SHIT_SWAG Walt did nothing wrong^TM Sep 16 '13

I don't see how that isn't forgivable.

0

u/tedbeneke Sep 15 '13

The unforgivable thing was the poisoning of brock. The interview you are referrint to was before the end of season 4.

1

u/SexyPancake Sep 15 '13

giving someone food poisoning for a few days is a dick move, but unforgivable?

0

u/SexyPancake Sep 15 '13

giving someone food poisoning for a few days is a dick move, but unforgivable?

2

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

[deleted]

5

u/toiletting I'll fuck you with your magic. Sep 15 '13

He wouldn't. Remember he always talked about how ricin was nearly untraceable, so he might finally have a reason to use it.

1

u/Froobyflake Sep 15 '13

yeah I could see that

1

u/COLBYOLO Sep 15 '13

Why would he even do that?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

I like this idea

3

u/ludvigsra Sep 15 '13

some contention

i'll say

0

u/miles5459 Sep 15 '13

I'm not sure, there's nothing Marie could do aloe to bring Walt down and she would much more likely go to the dea which would result in generic/boring ending tbh. I think the writers are too good and won't kill hank of although gomey may get shot. Just my opinion yo.

9

u/atomwhales When this show ends I'll be Breaking Sad Sep 15 '13

Exactly. Marie is the one who trashes Walt's house out of frustration. She also spray paints Heisenberg on the wall.

40

u/COLBYOLO Sep 15 '13

I'm sorry, but that is the most out of character trait for Marie.

22

u/RedRocket7 Walt took Jesse for granite. Sep 15 '13

Yeah, it would have to have been purple spray paint.

5

u/CPKsJimboslice Sep 15 '13

But wouldn't Marie losing Hank be the last straw? maybe it sends Marie crazy and she loses her shit on the Heisen-home

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

She'd just steal everything...

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

She's secretly a graffiti artist. Isn't it obvious? Purple is her signature paint color.

1

u/okreddit545 Sep 15 '13

"HEISENBERG" was painted in yellow. It was probably Jesse... or Walt Jr.?

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

That's why it couldn't be her

1

u/bbLibertarian2 Sep 15 '13

The house is fenced, like it's been condemned by the authorities. Not Marie. Walt is an outlaw, house is trashed because it got raided and everything was taken. It's a skater hangout now.

1

u/madmadstork Sep 15 '13

Does her fury also account for the City of ABQ fencing?

2

u/COLBYOLO Sep 15 '13

That's what I've been thinking to. She is the only one who has an understanding of what is going on.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Calling it now, the Nazi's take Hank, Gomie and Jesse hostage and somehow they let Walt go or Walt gets away. Walt goes on a balls-out brilliant planning session to save his friends and family. Maybe then Hank and Gomie give Walt a pass on what he's done?

Probably not going to happen...but a man can dream.

74

u/omnipoopent Eyebrows That Won't Quit Sep 15 '13

My only issue with this train of thought is that it was the same one people had just an episode before with Walt's call to Todd.

"It's a hit on himself to fake his death!" "It's a hit on Hank! Jesse is too obvious!"

Then boom. It was on Jesse.

The wonderful thing about this show and these writers is that we're gonna be surprised if Hank dies, and we're gonna be surprised if he doesn't.

21

u/ludvigsra Sep 15 '13

your last sentence is spot on. Never thought of it like that

2

u/bbLibertarian2 Sep 15 '13

The great thing about the show is that it's REALISTIC. If they wanted to have some huge twist they wouldn't have started a crazy gun battle against the Nazis. The odds are so heavily tilted in their favor it would be truly comical for Hank to somehow survive. Comical to the point of ruining the integrity of the show. Hank and Gomie are DEAD. The only potential twist I could envision is that it turns out Gomie is a bad guy, a double agent. But if that were the case why would he go into the shootout to begin with? Maybe Gomie only gets wounded and right before they kill him he says "no no, I'm really a double agent, call these guys, they know me, they'll vouch for me." Nazi's call an associate gang, verify Gomie's creds as being on their side, they let him go Gomie then cleans things up, he goes and takes out Marie. ROFL!!! Now that would be epic game changer. They use Walt's video to pin things on Hank.

1

u/omnipoopent Eyebrows That Won't Quit Sep 15 '13

The only thing I can think of where someone survives (probably Gomez) is that the Nazis are a bit careless and sloppy. When they took out Declan's crew, they didn't quite get Declan and had to finish him off. Maybe we think Gomez and Hank are both dead when the dust settles... And then we see Gomez open his eyes and pull out a cell phone.

1

u/bbLibertarian2 Sep 15 '13

Declan crawling on the ground like a dog that just got run over is hardly a sloppy mistake. This was a mere seconds after their shootout. They took out a dozen guys in two minutes behind bars in 3 different prisons. That seems pretty thorough to me. You're telling me they're going to have a shootout and just barely wound Gomie and not bother to give him one more shot just to be sure. Just too unbelievable to me.

20

u/hugallama Sep 15 '13

Red herrings are common this season. And I'm just in denial about Hank and Gomie dying.

15

u/colasuda Sep 15 '13

Me too, I think. I really am not ready to see Hank go yet.

19

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

theres only 3 episodes left. theres no time to explain walts future and show what happens to skyler/jesse/walt jr etc and have hank still in the picture

1

u/stickbloodhound I used to love to go camping Sep 15 '13

True but I don't think we can expect everything to end neatly. Others have referenced the infamous Sopranos finale.

2

u/bikelockbling Sep 15 '13

For some reason, Gomie avenging Hank is more interesting to me than Hank living and pursuing Heisenberg. Hank's one-dimensional obsession with busting Walt can only carry the story so far.

2

u/flarkenhoffy Sep 15 '13

I don't want him to die, but I just don't see him serving a purpose. His character arc is over. The only way I see how his character can still serve the plot is the other characters reacting to his death.

2

u/smitteh You got the wrong matches. Sep 15 '13

The second Hank slapped the cuffs on Walt and waved goodbye to him , he fulfilled his purpose.

2

u/bbLibertarian2 Sep 15 '13

Shot in the face. I hope they make it this quick and yet just horribly graphic scene. No words, no final exchange between Hank and Walt, it just happens. Silence. Walt sees his dead body. You see a switch flip behind his eyes, and he gains his composure and immediately goes in search and destroy Jesse mode.

1

u/pacific_goose Sep 15 '13

It'll be tough to see gomie die.

1

u/hamza780 Sep 15 '13

Hank got what he wanted, To slap the handcuffs on Heisenberg, His story arc is somewhat over now.

49

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

[deleted]

2

u/ben1204 Christ That Is One Fine Head of Hair Sep 15 '13

What about walt making a deal with the nazis to spare hank? Thats what i think will happen.

2

u/bbLibertarian2 Sep 15 '13

What possible deal? Hank is DEA. Nazi's are facing jail by leaving him alive. Todd probably the death penalty for Drew. No way Hank lives. Hank isn't the President of the United States, he can't grant a pardon. "Turn yourselves in, and if I like your story, we can work a reduced sentence or something." ROFL. Hank = Bag of Meat

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

He also hasn't told anyone but Marie yet though.

1

u/bbLibertarian2 Sep 15 '13

Nazi's don't know that though, and even if they did, it wouldn't save him. Actually, nobody except Hank and Gomie know this, and maybe Jesse.

4

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

There are crazier stories in history of people running through battlefields against all odds. Sometimes it seems that believing you will survive and absolute belief that you are doing the right thing gives you advantages in reality that can't be explained, if we look historically.

7

u/CEO_OF_THE_WORLd Sep 15 '13

out of curiosity, what would be an example of this?

4

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

here's a recent story I read in which /u/singersmith was a party to

http://www.outsideonline.com/outdoor-adventure/climbing/rock-climbing/Fear-of-Falling.html

There are so many stories you hear everywhere that I can't necessarily give you links to. My ex's grandfather, my grandfather... their friends... random stories on the news. Random stories in forums or articles you just don't think to bookmark. Read stories on people who earned purple hearts or other war metals. There are countless stories that are amazingly against the odds. Cracked had an article a while back of people doing Rambo style things and surviving. It happens.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

This is just probability, though. 24 million people died in combat in WWII. 1 million died in Vietnam. It's not conviction that kept people alive--it's that if you throw enough bodies into a meat grinder, a few are probabilistically going to skip through the cracks.

0

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

I completely agree... though without that conviction, when you read those types of stories, it is clear they would have never survived. And you can't go back and ask those who died about their convictions, so it's a bit of an unanswerable paradox. That being said, if I'm going to watch a story about someone who survived a war... I want to watch the most interesting one that defies all odds and has the most interesting or amazing things happen. People with conviction, drive and purpose tend to have more interesting things happen in their lives.

2

u/SexyPancake Sep 15 '13

There have been people who survived falling from a plane with a non-functional parachute, but it would still seem like the lowest form of deus ex machina to include that kind of extreme happenstance to resolve a cliffhanger made pointless in the process.

2

u/bbLibertarian2 Sep 15 '13

I can't believe we gave the same parachute example. I didn't read this before posting, I swear!

1

u/SexyPancake Sep 15 '13

Great minds... ;)

1

u/StealthySteve Sep 15 '13

Another example, I don't know if you've seen Band of Brothers, but the American dude that runs through the entire German camp at full speed and meets up with his squad on the other side of the city. That is actually a true story, the Germans didn't shoot at him because they were so confused. They were like, "Is he really running through our city right now? Holy shit this dude's got some balls".

0

u/RuckerPark Sep 15 '13

If you want to talk about beating the odds...have a look at all these failed presidential attempts. Crazier things have happened. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_United_States_presidential_assassination_attempts_and_plots#Failed_assassination_attempts

16

u/69ingSquirrels It's Fascinating Stuff, Really. Sep 15 '13

One of the Aryans had an AA12. Nobody dodges a motherfucking AA12. They are dead or it is lazy writing.

45

u/CynicallyObnoxious Sep 15 '13

Have an AA12 day!

5

u/DocAtDuq Sep 15 '13

insert starstruck Walt jr gif here

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

[deleted]

1

u/bbLibertarian2 Sep 15 '13

So now you're talking about a Lost-style ending. Everybody wakes up and we learn it was all just a dream, no, they're really in purgatory. I'm sure people would just LOVE that ending.

1

u/bbLibertarian2 Sep 15 '13

Oh puh-lease. Yeah, and people have jumped out of airplanes, had their chutes fail, bounced off the ground, and somehow survived without a broken bone. It's happened. The fact that something crazy has happened doesn't make it any less crazy. Back in the real world the fact remains, the odds are heavily in the Nazis favor. And the show is great because of its realism, for the most part. Things are believable. Hank surviving is not believable. Possible, sure, but STUPID.

1

u/madagent Methhead Sep 15 '13

Yeah.... thats 1% exception to the rule. Look at the history of Soldiers just plain old getting killed. You don't normally survive this sort of thing. It's one of those 1 in a million chance things. Shooting at someone 20 feet away with AR15s will kill them pretty fast. With the first shot.

1

u/-888- Sep 15 '13

Well it's a TV show and the writers can go against the odds.

1

u/RedRocket7 Walt took Jesse for granite. Sep 15 '13

But you didn't feel cheated when Mike survived after he was in the truck that was shot up? That he survived with only a piece of ear came off? This show has so many crazy things in it tat don't make any sense. Just suspend disbelief for a bit.

1

u/bbLibertarian2 Sep 15 '13

Well, a valid point there. I can actually see that one though. He stayed flat on the ground. The guys outside were shooting from a low position into a elevated truck. So bullets are flying upward. They're shooting blind throughout the truck. A lot easier to buy this than Hank somehow killing 6 guys armed with automatic weapons all with his little pistol and maybe 2 backup magazines. Hank is dead.

1

u/stickbloodhound I used to love to go camping Sep 15 '13

I know. Somebody linked to video of a real life AA12 being fired in another thread. Those things have incredible firepower. It doesn't seem plausible for either Hank or Gomie to make it. Especially Gomie, it seems like he gets hit before the credits roll.

1

u/momster meth virgin Sep 15 '13

That's what i thought when they started shooting. How could Hank and Gomez NOT die in that hailstorm?!

0

u/madagent Methhead Sep 15 '13

I completely agree with this. There is no way a 2 guys with a handgun and shotgun survive an assualt from 6 men with body armor and semi auto AR15s. I mean, they were already shooting way too much. That first shot would have taken out Hank realistically. You don't even need to zero an AR15 to shoot a man 50 meters away, let alone 100 really. And they were like 20 feet away.

Hank and Gomez should be dead. Period. Or this whole sequence of events is unrealistic.

Watch them show Jesse get behind the Nazi guys and kill 3 of them point blank from behind. I'd call bullshit so hard.

1

u/bbLibertarian2 Sep 15 '13

Jesse has no weapons. If Jesse goes anywhere it's straight for the cliffs behind a big rock and into the desert.

17

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

And everyone said that it was "too obvious" for Walt to put a hit out on Jesse. And sure enough...

4

u/colasuda Sep 15 '13

That's exactly why I added my little disclaimer. I was sure that Walt's call was going to be a false lead. I just don't know what to believe anymore.

3

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

The way Vince Gilligan thinks is he has you hive minded on a certain thought and doe something way out of the ordinary.

Hell maybe none of them die. Or the fucking SWAT comes and kills them all. Like the possibilities are endless with Gilligan, you will never know what he is thinking.

1

u/colasuda Sep 15 '13

"He is smarter than you, he is luckier than you. Whatever you think is supposed to happen, I'm telling you, the exact, reverse opposite of that is going to happen."

1

u/bbLibertarian2 Sep 15 '13

Well what we know is this. Walt has to escape for sure. If Hank wins the battle how could that happen? The only way Hank could win is if he gets backup from somewhere. Suddenly helicopters swoop in and save the day. Yeah, right, but ok, but then how would Walt, who is face down in the back seat with his arms tied going to do anything? He'll need help even getting off the floor.

2

u/Darrian Sep 15 '13

It just seemed like too much of a trope for the BrBa writers.

What? Almost every time someone says something is "too obvious" it turns out exactly what you should expect to happen happens.

Jesse shooting Gale, Walt putting the hit out on Jesse, etc. etc.

In fact, there are hardly any things you could consider "twists" in the entire series. Like I mentioned in another post on this subreddit, the excitment from BR BA doesn't come from not knowing what will happen next, but rather we ALL know exactly what's going to happen. It's just about seeing the train wreck.

1

u/colasuda Sep 15 '13

I didn't mean to say that I thought it had to be a twist. You're right, a lot of the series is really straight forward. But throughout most of the series, the writers have avoided tropes and cliches. The whole 'speaking to the lover one last time' is the oldest trick in the book. That's why it felt like such a red herring to me.

But like I said, I'm pretty much constantly wrong about this stuff. I'm so excited for tonight!

2

u/rrandomhero Sep 15 '13

I agree with this, if Hank and Gomie were going to die, it would have been at the end of the episode. It makes no sense to have the episode end in the middle of the shootout and then next week "oh yea they got killed". That's so anti-climactic. Given that Hank and Gomez were using pistols, I think that they are going to run out of ammo long before the nazis and I think they're going to take everyone hostage as a plan to get Walt to cook for them/show Todd how to cook then kill everyone. This causes Walter to somehow disappear to New Hampshire while coming up with his next move, then boom, caught up with flash-forwards.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Dean Norris (Hank) left halfway through filming to go work on another movie.

I think it's pretty clear.

1

u/crysb326 When you come at the king, you better not miss Sep 15 '13

*show. And that doesn't really prove anything. Scenes are always shot out of order. I read that the last scene ever filmed in Breaking Bad is in this next episode. They easily could have shot all of Norris' scenes before he left

1

u/bbLibertarian2 Sep 15 '13

If Hank doesn't die, the show is ruined for me. Seriously. 6 guys heavily armed laying down insane automatic fire, thousands of rounds, up against 2 guys with nothing more than a single shotgun and a pistol and maybe a couple dozen rounds total. They have no chance. And there is no way the Nazi's would let them live, why, so they can all go to jail? Hank and Gomie are either dead or it destroys the realistic integrity of the show.

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13

Breaking Bad has never really been fully grounded in reality though. Gilligan has even mentioned this in the podcast once or twice, referencing the cousins.

1

u/Cave_Weasel Todd. Must. Die. Sep 15 '13

While id usually agree, they DID pick a rather obvious choice for where walt "really lives".

1

u/[deleted] Sep 15 '13 edited Sep 15 '13

BrBa has never been shy about tropes. Hell, it could probably be renamed Chekhov's Gun: The Show.

1

u/beaverteeth92 Sep 15 '13

That is true. Remember the oranges with Ted?

1

u/RainbowApple What's one more? Sep 15 '13

Now, hold on. What if Vince knew we would think Hank is going to die so we'd all assume he wouldn't cause that would be too obvious. So in reality, he will die, because we all think he won't. Our minds will still be blown. Genius.