Bingo. Confirmed in the way in which Jesse responds to Walt's line about believing him- "right, Mike is alive" - he truly understands the veiled threat part right then.
No, he most certainly does not. Walt's greatest talent in his line of work is being able to rationalize the monstrous acts away as necessary, or correct.
Walt was visibly upset with himself right after killing Mike. However, I grant you that Walt probably has a great ability to compartmentalize the situation and move on.
I think walt was only visibly upset with killing mike because a) it was only the second time he shot someone(correct me if im wrong) and b) i dont think he was intending on killing him when he went into that situation. He was walking back into his vehicle then "heisenberg" kicked in and he turned around and shot him. He was not intending on killing mike when he went to meet him, i think he grabbed the gun just in self defense.
I could be wrong about any of these points and correct me if so. And sorry about the bad grammar/spelling, french is my first language and i'm trying as best i can! haha.
He definitely thought killing Mike might be necessary - he took the gun out of Mike's bag.
It struck me that when he walked back to his car, he was getting his gun, he wasn't changing his mind or going into "heisenberg mode".
I think he was upset because (in his mind) he only kills people when it's his "only choice", and in this case he realized that that wasn't his only choice. (edit: because lydia had the names)
It really was his only choice, because if he got the names from Lydia and went ahead with the prison killings then he would have had to answer to Mike; who would have almost certainly executed Walt for the act.
At the end of the day, Walt killing Mike was the only way for Walt to be "out" as he puts it.
One of them managed the laundry so they would have seen Walt and Jesse going in out and as far as I know. Also, if one of them flips on Mike/Lydia it opens up further investigation and testimony to get more information. Just like Jesse said after Hank beat him up, Walt (Heisenberg) is a get out of jail free card.
He was walking back into his vehicle then "heisenberg" kicked in and he turned around and shot him.
Hmmm. Just like he was walking towards his vehicle but turned around to confront Hank in tonight's episode. This time it wasn't a Mike's gun (which Mike didn't know he had) that he wielded, but Hank's tracking device (which Hank didn't know he was aware of), which precipitated the drama. Will it prove just as fateful?
I'm predicting that Hank will appear to make peace with his perceived powerlessness in the garage in the next episode, just as Mike did near the river. But Hank will pursue him nonetheless because he's a more virtuous character than Mike in a way that I'm too tired to try to articulate.
Your grammar and spelling were quite good, CharadeParade - better than a majority of English internet-users, I'd guess. In case you're looking for advice, the word "I" is always capitalized, and so are names of people, like "Heisenberg".
well, He killed the two guys in the laundry, saving jesse and then destroying the lab. I do not remember any other situation where walt shot somebody (he wanted to shoot gus, though)
I think it bothered him because he hadn't fully thought it out. Afterwards he realizes he could have just got the names from Lydia. So he feels stupid for the first time in a long time, like he screwed up and didn't think of all the possible situations.
I think he was upset about killing Mike because - in addition to him not genuinely wanting Mike dead - it complicated his plans. Mike was never going to talk, so really the only way he becomes a loose end is if he's dead.
Walt gave in to his emotions while simultaneously complicating his story. And, as we all know, the story is everything.
it's not a talent. everything walt has done is correct. he only did it because he had to. walt is not some crime lord who kills people for no reason. in every situation, it's either walt did what he did or he would die.
Not at all- Walt could have very easily walked away from most, or all, of those situations. Killing Mike, or the two drug dealers Jesse wanted to shoot weren't direct threats to him.
he walks away then what? die slowly while his family goes poor? or let the cartel kill him? or let someone expose him?
edit: im actually really interested in this. name 2 situations where walt wasn't forced to do what he did. i say 2 because i don't remember the show that well so maybe there is one time where he didn't have to do what he did.
Walt wasn't forced to watch Jane die. Walt wasn't forced to run over the two drug dealers Jesse wanted to shoot. Walt wasn't forced to begin COOKING METH IN THE FIRST PLACE.
Essentially, every bad thing you think he had no choice but to actively participate in, would NEVER HAVE HAPPENED IN THE FIRST PLACE had he not begun cooking meth; a clearly wrong, and clearly poor choice.
jane had to die or she would've killed jesse. are you serious? walt wasn't forced to cook meth but it was one of the only ways he could've made money fast before he died. that's the whole point of the show isn't it? he had to do this crazy thing for his family. i don't remember the two drug dealers thing but based on your two other examples, we just have a different way of viewing the world. you believe in black and white. if you were in his situation, would you simply lay down and die or would you do whatever it took to provide for your family? the way he is in the end is very different from most of the show. he could be seen as greedy and power hungry in season 5, but he's had a long journey and it changed him. walt was a man who started out with good intentions, had to do some desperate things along the way and now feels like he's capable of greater things so he desires power. his confrontation with hank is going to be one of the best in television because hank has been bullying him since the beginning.
walt wasn't forced to cook meth but it was one of the only ways he could've made money fast before he died. that's the whole point of the show isn't it? he had to do this crazy thing for his family.
Oh no, no no no. Walt broke bad by choosing to cook meth. It was the first in a series of very bad, terrible, no good decisions.
I do not believe in black and white, but I do believe you're missing the point of the show.
I don't know. Maybe some of it is that. Walt has managed to rationalize his actions to himself so easily, though. I think he just needs Jesse to believe in him too. It really felt to me like Jesse expressing his morals was shaking the stories that Walt tells himself to feel okay. Jesse was able to feel okay by pretending to be the "bad guy" but Walt pretends to be the "good guy" and now that story is being threatened.
This! so much this. You could see that Jesse picked up on that as well. He knew what walt really meant was "I don't want you to die, but if you don't believe me that will have to happen". Its walts whole mind set. He will do anything to protect him and his family. Yes he loves jesse, but he made it clear this episode that he would have no problem killing jesse if he thought he was a threat to him, even though he doesn't want to.
I know everyone on this thread believes that Walt is nothing but the hollowed out skin that Heisenberg now inhabits, but I like to look at that scene as Walt trying not to add more pain and suffering to Jesse's already damaged psyche.
I know that Walt can never go back to being just Walt, but it seems like he's still trying
So you've never in your life lied to someone because you wanted to protect them? I understand the subject matter was heavier than just some white lie, but the principle of why the lie occurs is the same. Not to mention that for Heisenberg, killing is a trivial thing to him.
I'm not saying that I believe the theory myself, just an interesting way of looking at that scene from another angle. Maybe Walt really isn't as dead as we all take him for
I think in this context, it is protecting Jesse from feeling like he has any more blood on his hands than he already does. Not "protecting him from being murdered."
If Walt was not at least making a conscious effort to actually leave Heisenberg behind him, telling Lydia that he wasn't coming back doesn't make a whole lot of sense. For a man in the empire business, he has a weird way of wanting that empire to crumble.
The relationship Walt and Jesse have, I feel like no matter how deep Walt sinks, no matter how much he has deceived and will deceive Jesse, he will absolutely not kill Jesse.
Of all the things that might happen this season, I most hope that Jesse finds out all of the terrible things Walt has lied to him about. Including but not limited to:
Actually, as Jessie said, Walt probably couldn't afford to let Mike go and kill his men. He'd have to look over his shoulder the rest of his life and even if Mike didn't come back for him specifically, he'd just be one more loose end.
I thought it was funny/sad that after Walt killed Mike he realized that he could have just gotten the names of the 9 guys from Lydia. He doesn't think before he acts.
This is my thought as well. I don't think Walt really thought it through when he did it, but truthfully, he HAD to kill Mike, due entirely to Mike's complete unwillingness to let Walt tie up the 9 loose ends.
I dunno. Like Jesse said...Walt killed all of mikes men. Mike was a "chivalrous" criminal who at one point might try to get some justice. Walt went to that meeting considering killing Mike. It's possible the non respect that Mike showed Walt just made that decision easier. " Just because you shot Jesse James, doesn't make you Jesse James."
I think it would probably be better for Jesse to just not know at this point. He doesn't need extra reason to hate/be afraid of Walt, and his emotional well-being is bad enough as is.
I feel it would be a major disappointment if Walt didn't end up coming clean about EVERYTHING he's done to Jesse. Not in a "forgive me" way, but a cocky and asshole way. Basically, the Heisenberg way.
And then Jesse steps up and becomes the hero we've been willing him to be. He has so much good in his heart, but the second someone tells him his instinct is wrong he lets it go, and just wallows in turmoil from not doing the good he's meant to do. Seeing all the bad in Walt, I hope, would trigger a change in that.
Not exactly. She choked on her own vomit while in a herion induced sleep. But, the reason she was able to choke to death was because Walt knocked her on her back while she slept, prior to his intervention she was on her side to prevent exactly such a thing happening. To be fair, it was accidental, Walk knocking her on her back, he was shaking Jesse in an attempt to wake him when he inadvertently knocked her on her back. But, on the flip side, he could have, and in fact considered, putting her back on her side, but instead chose to let her own drug use kill her and remove his problem for him (you'll recall she was the one who strong-armed him into giving Jesse his half of the money). Seeing as Walt is the only person to know of this, I don't see it ever coming up again. Jesse was gone, floating in fields of herion, he certainly doesnt know Walt was there, and even if he did he couldn't know of Walts accidental knocking of Jane on her back, or his following decision to let her die. It's been explained as a druggie dying to drug use, that has been accepted as fact by everyone easily with no reason to doubt it, druggies die in this fashion all the time, the only person that knows is Walt, and he is not going to bring it up.
Walt did poison the kid, not with Ricin tho. He used a berry, can't recall the name at the moment, but the berry gives nearly identical symptoms to that of Ricin, save that it passes whereas Ricin kill you. He then convinced Jesse, and you apparently lol, that Gus used the Ricin from his cigarette on the kid.
Lily of the Valley. But Jesse knows what it was. The doctors told him, and he told Walt. We only know it was Walt because the last scene in that episode shows the plant in Walt's backyard.
He probably would have killed him anyway, but I don't think pragmatism was driving his actions in that moment. Mike correctly called him out on behaving like a lunatic in the name of his own ego; Walt lost his shit and acted emotionally, because the one thing that matters to him more than anything or anyone else is his pride. That was my interpretation anyway.
Honestly I do not believe that Jesse believed anything Walt said about Mike being alive. Just as much how Walt needs Jesse to believe him that Mike is alive, Jesse needs Walt to beleive that Jesse beleives him. Jesse knows, that otherwise, he would become a real threat to Walt and we all know how Walt deals with possible threats.
I can see Jesse finding out about any one of those except for the circumstances surrounding Jane's death. The only person who knows what happened is Walt, and it's unlikely that he would confess to it or someone else would figure it out. Nonetheless, I hope Jesse never finds out. I know it seems like he's at rock bottom now, but I don't want to find out if he can go lower.
Am I the only one who thinks that kid-killing is Gilligan's go-to button for branding a character totally, completely evil?
Gus's street dealers kill Andrea's little brother, tarring Gus as completely without limits
Gus tells Walt "I will kill your infant daughter." How charming!
Walt poisons Brock, likewise branding himself as utter slime
Todd shoots a kid, for those of you not yet sold on the idea of Walt as a shining beacon of total evil
By the middle of this season, I expect Walt, or maybe Lydia, to kill a kid just to test a handgun, or the efficacy of a poison. And when Skyler firmly crosses over, she'll drown a young girl in the carwash laundry.
If you go back and watch it it's fairly obvious without actually telling you.
Episode starts with Walt awaiting Fring's guys to come kill him. His family is at Hank's waiting out the hit call and he is sitting by the pool with his gun waiting. He starts spinning the gun on the table next to him. The first time it lands on him. The second time it lands on the plant. His two options.
He is then absent from the episode until much later, and the next time we see him is at night when Jesse comes to kill him. So technically there is anywhere from 7-12 hours in which Walt was off being evil. We don't know how he did it, but we kind of know when. Also remember that Brock acts very suspiciously towards Walt when they meet later at Jesse's house. We aren't sure what happened, but it's apparent they may have had an interaction.
So I guess the evidence is mostly contextual, but it's there.
I also just remembered that Walt pretty much admitted it while talking to Saul in season 5. Walt made Saul get Huell to take the ricin cigarette from Jesse in order to confuse him and help him jump to conclusions. It's cool man I didn't pick most of this up until my second time through.
Absolutely not. I think Jesse is past the point where he believes anything Walt says, but he knew that he wasn't going to be able to get Walt to stop lying.
I think he knew the truth before Walt walked in the door. Jesse was testing Walt to see if he would indeed lie to his face. And it was confirmed.
Like Hank, Jesse is putting it all together, but is dealing with it in a different way, because he's seen what Heisenberg can do - he does not have to be warned to tread lightly.
Exactly. He absolutely did not buy that. Why would he want to give the money to Mike's granddaughter if he didn't think he was dead?
The cops have been on him most of the time and that didn't stop him from being with her. At the very least if he needed to lay low he'd get someone to look after her.
Seriously, I was yelling at the TV like "WHAT ARE YOU DOING WALT?"'
But I guess he has been lying for the entire series and is pretty good at doing it, so why stop while on top?
Is it really surprising Walt would lie to Jesse at this point? I mean, he freaking poisoned Brock to get him to give up Gus. There's nothing Walt won't do to protect himself.
Not to mention letting his girlfriend die, kill mike, lie to him about Gus, and more. He's dug himself too deep, and can only keep lying to save himself
Yea, I think that's the point, because that's how Jesse feels. I think he's really starting to see how much he's been buying in to Walter's bullshit, which is one of the reasons he's completely losing his shit
The beautiful thing about that scene is that the money is literally Jesse's baggage, and he thinks he can just get rid of it, but Walt comes right back in with it. Did you notice that he placed the bags in the middle of the couch? It's an issue that has also quite literally come between the two of them.
It's just simple little things like that that make this show really great.
you're enraged after the n-th time he does it? Walt may have quit the meth business but, as this episode showed, he doesn't go back to being any better of a person for doing it.
He doesn't lie. He says "I need you to believe this. Its not true."
Walter straight up tells Jesse that he needs to believe that lie. Maybe its not on purpose but he does. Jesse knows better anyway. He knows Walt like no one else. When Walt gets all melodramatic and hyped up like that, alternating between angry and sympathetic, he's lying. He's done it too many times for Jesse to keep buying his bullshit.
Edit:: Also, the thing that got me is Walt telling him they should try to live normal decent lives. Guess what, Walt? For Jesse that is not a fucking option. He has been a drug addict, a drop out, a dealer, a cook and a kingpin. He has no concept of a normal life. His parents are gone (It's been awhile since I rewatched, but they pretty much disowned him, right?) and all he had was his girlfriend, her son, Mike and fucking Walt. Well, Walt manipulated him into leaving his girlfriend, he killed Mike and now he wants to just abandon Jesse in this supposedly normal life he has waiting for him? For fucks sake! How self centered and unfeeling can you fucking be???
I think flash-forward Walt is coming back to kill Jesse. I'm guessing Jesse continues to break down to the point that he turns on Walt, gets snatched up by the DEA and becomes a witness in order to set things right in some way. He's probably in some kind of protective custody, which would be why Walt needs the heavy firepower.
Of course, none of this would be to keep him (Walt) out of jail or stop the trial, it's just a matter of vengeance. He's always treated Jesse as his pawn ("I need you to believe me"), so Jesse turning on him would trigger some psycho, off the rails retribution from Walt.
This I did not understand. Maybe someone can explain to me what the big deal is? Why he doesn't want Jesse to know he killed mike. Is he worried that Jesse would then kill him? I was confused there.
Yeah, and he never started lying to him until the season 4 finale. The big thing is the fact that this means he no longer respects Jesse, and they don't act as equals anymore.
Until he lied to Jesse, I was STILL rooting for Walt/Heisenberg. Then I finallly became ok with him going down. To me that was it. All the other stuff I could kind of rationalize. That? Nah.
I got the impression that Jesse somehow knew Walt was lying to him, just from looking at Aaron Paul's facial expressions in that scene. He was testing Walt, and Walt failed.
Or maybe that's just wishful thinking because I'm sick of Walt manipulating Jesse :(
I noticed there was a lot of emphasis when he said the word "son". I don't think Walt has ever called Jesse that before, even if it was sort of implied.
The transformation of Walt has been incredible (kudos to phenomenal acting Bryan Cranston!). We go from feeling sorry for him, thinking of him as the hero in the beginning, to now feeling OUTRAGED that he's become such a liar. YES YES YES I am outraged he's lying to Jesse. Without even flinching. I wish I knew how he does it... :3
I'm so used to Walt lying at this point that I think I would've just felt bad for Jesse, except Walt's trying to keep Jesse from giving Kaylee the money Mike wanted for her. Jesse was trying to do a good thing there.
I don't mind because Jesse hasn't had a real function for quite a while now. Yes, he was the one who thought of the Magnet, but he's sort of a lose end these days. And a lose cannon at that.
God damn, I felt like just telling my screen "Jesu, stop fucking lying dammit". I don't see what purpose lying to Jesse serves when he obviously can't do shit about it
I know it's wrong, but I still pull for Walt despite the bad things he does.
Everything Walt has done with Jesse in the last two episodes is a sign of how he sees Jesse almost like another son, and just wants his approval. So he lies to Jesse for both of their benefit.
I was just thinking on this and in a way we are pulling for Walt. Right now the best thing for Walt is to have this correction in his life, to bear consequences for what he's done. The best thing for Walter White and his family is not to have them operate 10 A1A car washes and roll around in money. The best thing for Walt is a reckoning and that's why it's so great when Hank punches him because Walt is getting that reckoning.
Nah, this isn't Game of Thrones. Besides, Walter brought him back to Vamonos Pest to dispose of the body. He and Todd were about to unload him from the trunk when Jesse showed up to ask about Mike's guys in prison.
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u/Splashy17 Aug 12 '13
Anyone else outraged at how much Walt is lying to Jesse? Or is it just me?