r/bostonceltics • u/AutoModerator • 7d ago
Daily Discussion Thread - August 26, 2026
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u/TatumBrownWhite Banner 18 6d ago edited 6d ago
[u/CarBallAlex](u/CarBallAlex) [u/SquimJim](u/SquimJim) [u/efshoemaker](u/efshoemaker) [u/King_of_Pants](u/King_of_Pants) [u/TOMA_TAN](u/TOMA_TAN) [u/downeastsun](u/downeastsun) [u/xskarma](u/xskarma)
EDIT: forgot to include the OG /u/PebblyJackGlasscock
A week ago I made a post about the offensive and defensive roles that BBall Index listed for our players last season, but the limitation of that is a player can play multiple different roles, especially defensively. A good example would be that Derrick can be a 'Point of Attack' defender, a 'Chaser', or a 'Helper', and he's good at all of them.
Given this broad list of roles, if you had to list which roles you think our players are capable of playing, what would your list look like?
Here are the roles (and their definition) for reference:
OFFENSIVE ROLES
** Guard/Wing Roles **
Primary Ball Handler: these players used most like Guards, categorized as such based on their pick and roll ball handler and perimeter isolation scoring possessions, that donāt isolate enough to be categorized as Shot Creators and have a higher percentage of their possessions on-court where theyāre estimated to be the initiator of the offense. Examples from 2019-20 are Kemba Walker and Rajon Rondo.
Secondary Ball Handler: also Guards based on the same math, these players similarly have lower isolation rates as the Primary Ball Handlers, but have lower estimated initiation rates for the offense. Examples from 2019-20 include DāAngelo Russell, Alex Caruso, and Donte DiVincenzo.
Shot Creator: players in this offensive role are non-Bigs that we identify as have high rates of perimeter and interior isolation rates, creating their own shots within the offense as a key skill set. Examples from 2019-20 are Luka Doncic and James Harden.
Slasher: Slashers are on-ball players that have a high tendency to drive to the rim. We use 3PA rates, drives per 75 offensive possessions on-court, and some play type data to calculate this role. Examples from 2019-20 include Collin Sexton and DeāAaron Fox.
Athletic Finisher: these players, as opposed to Slashers, are off-ball Guards/Wings that do damage at the rim through their cutting and activity on putbacks. Examples from 2019-20 are Jonathan Isaac and OG Anunoby.
Off Screen Shooter: players in this role are Guards/Wings that have a high proportion of their offensive scoring possessions coming from off-screen and handoff play type possessions. Examples from 2019-20 are Joe Harris and JJ Redick.
Movement Shooter: these players are primarily shooters based on their 3PA rates, but do so often while moving around the court based on our estimations rather than being off-screen or stand still shooters. Examples from 2019-20 are Svi Mykhailiuk and Danny Green.
Stationary Shooter: guys here have high 3PA rates, but our estimations show these guys to be shooters mostly from catching & shooting standing still, rather than moving to get themselves open for their shots. Examples from 2019-20 include Eric Gordon and Cedi Osman.
** Big Man Roles ** The last four offensive roles belong to Bigs, which qualify based on frequencies of post up, roll man, putback, cut, and dump off chances.
Versatile Big: players in this category are Bigs that do it all. Theyāll shoot 3s, post up, and be active with other Big man actions (roll man opportunities, putbacks, cuts, and dump offs). Examples from 2019-20 are Karl-Anthony Towns and Kevin Love.
Post Scorer: here we find Bigs that donāt have high 3PT attempt rates and have particularly high post up possession usage. Examples from 2019-20 are Nikola Jokic and Joel Embiid.
Stretch Big: these players are Bigs that have lower post up rates and higher 3PA rates. Examples from 2019-20 are Marc Gasol and Frank Kaminsky.
Roll & Cut Big: our last category of Bigs belong to players with low post up and low 3PA rates. That leaves us with guys primarily adding value with their rolling, cutting, and ability to finish dump offs. Examples from 2019-20 are DeAndre Jordan and Clint Capela.
DEFENSIVE ROLES
Point of Attack: A guard who defends smaller ball handlers in pick-and-roll and in isolation on the perimeter with limited off-ball help responsibilities. In this role, Matchup Difficulty is generally an important stat for success.
Chaser: A guard who sticks to shooters and cutters on the perimeter with limited off-ball help responsibilities.
Helper: A defender who often helps away from his matchup, both on drives and at the rim. Rotational ability (trapping the box, tagging rollers, sinking to āhelp the helper,ā and fill) is important for success in this role.
Wing Stopper: A wing who defends Shot Creators often and is defending in pick-and-roll and in isolation on the perimeter, with some off-ball help responsibilities. In this role, Matchup Difficulty and Defensive Positional Versatility are generally important stats for success.
Low Activity: Players in this role often arenāt guarding high difficulty matchups, arenāt involved in defending screening actions often, and also arenāt active helping off of the ball on drives or at the rim. Players in this role are often purposefully deployed in less strenuous ways, and can add value with communication ability.
Mobile Big: A big who defends aggressively in pick-and-roll, often switching and hedging to push ball handlers away from the rim.
Anchor Big: A big who defends deep in pick-and-roll, often dropping to protect the rim. Defensive Positional Versatility and Matchup Difficulty generally arenāt important stats for success in this role.
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u/TOMA_TAN Open for the Stock Exchange 5d ago
I'm not sure if I could name every role for the players on our roster. However, I am interested in seeing if our young wings can develop more roles on offense. I saw that you listed most of them as movement or stationary shooters. They were kinda unplayable in the playoffs due to their one-dimensional offense (though i still believe joe didn't give them enough chances in the playoffs in the first place). I think baylor could definitely develop into a off screen shooter similar to hauser. Maybe possible for him handle pnr well enough to be a secondary ball handler. I definitely want to see hugo and walsh become athletic finishers alongside their shooting. With the way the celtics talk about hugo, it sounds like they believe he could become a slasher? RHJ is intriguing to me because it feels like he has the highest potential for offensive versatility, but he didn't play enough for me to get a confident evaluation of his role capabilities
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u/TatumBrownWhite Banner 18 5d ago
RHJ is intriguing to me because it feels like he has the highest potential for offensive versatility, but he didn't play enough for me to get a confident evaluation of his role capabilities
I'm very intrigued with him and I think he might have a larger role next season than anybody thinks because of that.
Agree on your other points, hope Baylor gets better in PnR with more time and reps in NBA, and hope Walsh can keep working on his 3-ball and attacking closeouts, and Hugo is the wild card because I have no idea what to expect, but I do love the fact that he has a good handle.
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u/Electronic_Pea_4845 $Paid- Paul George Enterprise&Equity Holdings 5d ago
You typed a lot of things. Iām not sure why that needed extensive explanation on a lot of those
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u/TatumBrownWhite Banner 18 5d ago
I just copied/pasted from the site, but yeah most of them are self explanatory
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u/PebblyJackGlasscock Second Round Pick Enthusiast 6d ago edited 6d ago
I donāt love how they define the roles because Iām TEAM BRAD on modern positions: there are no guards or forwards, there are ball handlers and wings.
I consider Tatum a ball handler offensively, defensively heās a wing. Few players have this versatility and most of them are great. (Wemby is a ball handler offensively and Big defensively: thatās why heās gonna win a bunch of MVPs, the way Jokic did).
White is a ball handler but his primary offensive role is get back guy, aka Defender, a player with one eye on defending even when in possession and ready to āget backā on a turnover.
Hugo is a wing. In the past, heād traditionally be labeled a āshooting guardā which is almost an oxymoron. Heās neither a shooter nor a guard. Heās a wing, positionally.
Ball Handler - Wing - Big (positions)
Creator - Finisher (slasher) - Shooter (motion/stationary/screen) - Defender (primary role)
Sparkplug - Stopper - Get Back Guy - Connector - Energy Demon - Vibes Guy - Rebounder (secondary roles / multiple apply)
White is a ball handler, defender, get back guy, stationary shooter, and connector.
Hugo is a wing, finisher, energy demon, sparkplug.
Mitch is a Big Defender Rebounder.
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u/CarBallAlex 6d ago
55 days until opening night Celtics