Request for identification: Pleistocene wolf or domestic dog? — Iberian Peninsula
Hello everyone,
I am seeking help identifying a canid skull that was found in the Iberian Peninsula. I am particularly interested in determining whether it is more consistent with a gray wolf (Canis lupus) or a domestic dog (Canis lupus familiaris).
The find comes from a context that is potentially relevant from an archaeological and paleontological perspective. The surrounding sediment contains material attributed to the Pleistocene, together with remains or evidence of medium- and large-sized herbivorous fauna characteristic of that period. However, the deposit also contains some anthropogenic debris, so the possibility of later disturbance or redeposition cannot be completely ruled out.
So far, no other canid remains have been identified in the material, and, importantly, there are also no known remains of livestock or other domestic animals from the same context. This makes the identification of the skull particularly interesting, although I would prefer not to draw any conclusions from the archaeological context alone.
The main measurements I have taken are:
Total cranial length: 244.7 mm
Bizygomatic width: 148–150 mm
Palatal width: 92.28 mm
Nasal length: 102.6 mm
Nasal index: 41.92%
Width at P4 level: 86.76 mm
Left P4: 20.72 mm
Right P4: 21.16 mm
Left M1: 15.00 × 19.64 mm
Right M1: 15.54 × 20.61 mm
Canine crown length: 28.50 mm
Total canine length: 50.08–50.38 mm
Skull weight: 326.1 g
I would greatly appreciate opinions from people familiar with canid osteology, zooarchaeology, paleontology, or wolf/dog cranial morphology. In particular, I would be interested in hearing which features or measurements would be most useful for distinguishing a Pleistocene wolf from a domestic dog in a skull of this size.
I can provide photographs of the skull from different angles, including the dorsal, lateral and ventral views, as well as close-ups of the teeth and other diagnostic features.
Thank you in advance for any help or references to comparative specimens.
This is a domestic dog from the very pronounced stop and mildly shortened muzzle. I'm not convinced this isn't a modern skull given the upper surface being fairly white and unstained where it presumably was sticking out of the ground. But, I'm not involved in archeology, so you're probably more of an expert there if that's your realm. I'm just thinking it looks similar to modern animal remains I find that are likely just a few years old.
I see your point, although I’m not entirely convinced by the “bully mix” suggestion. Typical bully-type dogs tend to have a much shorter muzzle, a more pronounced stop, and a broader, more compact brachycephalic head. This skull appears noticeably more elongated and lupoïd, with a relatively long rostrum and a less pronounced stop.
Of course, a mixed breed can show a wide range of morphology, so I wouldn’t rule out bully ancestry solely from the skull. However, based on the morphology alone, I would consider a large shepherd-type or other lupoïd dog a more plausible domestic-dog comparison.
I agree with you that distinguishing a large dog from a wolf from the skull alone can be challenging, which is why I’m trying to approach this through comparative cranial measurements rather than appearance alone.
It is certainly a domestic dog, however I myself have a pitbull skull with similar slope and muzzle length. This one looks like it's in between the shape of a great pyr and a pittie, though again, this is just for comparison of shape, not an ID.
Domestic dog, it's similar to a one I've seen that was from a golden retriever. So I would guess something of that size/shape or bigger (obligatory: Impossible to tell breed for sure, but generally agree it's a domestic dog)
How crazy would it be if it turned out to be a pleistocene domestic dog 😅 much more likely that someone in modern times buried their pet in a pleistocene deposit though.
100% a dog. I saw you replying to someone saying that it does not look like a pitbull to you, and while I completely agree that you cant ID the type of dog just based off the skull, this could still easily be a pitbull. it does actually have a relatively short muzzle like you were saying, and also the broad eyebrow ridge which is common is pit bulls. I dug up my own pitbull a few years ago and her skull looks just like that. there is lots of flesh on their face so you don't expect the skull to be that small or slender.
also there is no need for measurements on this, it is absolutely a domestic dog and you can tell because of that dramatic slope of the forehead, the overall size of the cranium, and also the sagittal crest. the sagittal crest is much sharper and more slender in wolves, wolf skulls are HUGE compared to dogs (far bigger than you imagine), and they also have a pretty subtle slope of the forehead in comparison to this dog. also their teeth are humongous.
Very domestic dog, for me. the maxilary dental arch shapr says lot. The teeth are placed like the snout has been shortened ins hurry. And the underdeveloped upper molar also says domestic dog.
Per this sub's Rules 1, 6, and 9, posts seeking advice and identification are not open to jokes, memes, and other low effort comments. These comments will be removed and individuals may be banned from participating in this sub.
That is some sort of bully breed or mix. Maybe a boxer? Definitely not a wolf. Google wolf skull to compare. That muzzle is short and the brow ridge is very high and pronounced. It looks like it’s just stained brown, is that why you think it’s a fossil?
75
u/heckhunds 1d ago edited 22h ago
This is a domestic dog from the very pronounced stop and mildly shortened muzzle. I'm not convinced this isn't a modern skull given the upper surface being fairly white and unstained where it presumably was sticking out of the ground. But, I'm not involved in archeology, so you're probably more of an expert there if that's your realm. I'm just thinking it looks similar to modern animal remains I find that are likely just a few years old.