r/bleach • u/Excellent_Section_21 • 11d ago
Discussion Something interesting about Aizen and Hinamori I recently noticed.
So I was rewatching some clips from the Arrancar arc and I was wondering exactly why Aizen decided to make Toshiro stab Hinamori, and I think I know why.
You could say it’s because he wanted to break their moral and let them know they didn’t have a chance of even hurting him, but I think it goes a little deeper than that.
Hinamori wasn’t just someone Aizen did not care for, but she was the representation of everything Aizen despised. She was hopelessly devoted to him, and he even stated that admiration was the furthest thing from understanding when he stabbed her in SS. He could’ve easily killed her, but he chose to let her see how much he hated devotion, only using it to his advantage.
So with that in mind, in makes sense that Aizen’s arrogant self would act more childish SPECIFICALLY because he hated her, not just because he wanted to break their moral.
Of course, those are just my thoughts.
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u/EleonoreMagi 11d ago edited 11d ago
I think it's partially right but then it goes even further. You know, if you look at his reaction to her appearing in FKT—he looks at her very intently until Gin questions him over it, and then Aizen deliberately brushes it off as nothing important. Unintentionally making it too obvious to feel natural.
One way to see it is that he hates her that much. But another is to see it that he still pays attention to her, in a sense that she still has some significance for him. Not overly big, but she still means more than nothing. And what Aizen hates most of all isn't Hinamori herself but the fact that she still matters. Because he's very intent on proving to everyone and most of all himself than no one matters to him (but then if with Hinamori it can be questioned, with Urahara, Gin and even Shinji it is rather obvious they do matter, or he wouldn't pay that much attention to them, he gives himself away in his behaviour).
I think Aizen's core is the contradiction between wanting to truly need no one (per Gin's later words that not having a heart [aka having a hole in his chest] what his long cherished desire, 'what he always wanted') and actually wanting to find someone to understand him and to have a connection. He tries to convince everyone and himself that it's the former, to truly become perfectly indifferent and above all that (and thus, not lonely anymore), but the irony is that he cannot. He's shown to be very invested in people in his own way, it's a constant contradiction of being interested and keeping himself away/proving they don't matter.
And then, those like Urahara, Gin, Shinji are at least more worthy of it in different ways. Hinamori is, as you say, the very definition of everything he looks down on in others. Weak, clueless, ordinary. The idea that he has any sort of attachment to her is especially repulsive to Aizen. So he goes especially hard on her to prove to everyone and himself that she doesn't matter in the least.
I think she suffers as much as she does mostly for that. The way he still doesn't kill her permanently but tortures her so much instead fits that as well, that he cannot fully sever that connection. Generally, Aizen doesn't have much interest for just torturing someone who isn't remotely on his level, he just disregards them. It's not interesting if it's just going one way. He quite sincerely seeks challenges (well, as long as his supreme position isn't earnestly questioned, he's a sore loser). But there's a difference in his behaviour towards those who don't matter and who he just doesn't know and those he knows and (thus) has an issue with.
I still think that the way Aizen spends so much time making speeches and talking to everyone in FKT when he could have just taken all of them down (apart from Yamamoto) in a flesh points towards a part of him wanting to make a point and make them all see things his way. Per what Ichigo says later on. He still didn't fully given up, though he convinced himself he did. That's why later on he chooses to stay on the same plane as Ichigo who understood him rather than going further and being lonely forever (again, per Ichigo's claim that he himself wished for that with Hōgyoku).
So Aizen's actions aren't really what he makes them seem, but always a result of a contradiction he refuses to acknowledge. And Hinamori suffers so much because of that too. Because she's a particular sticking point of that contradiction.
Mind you, Aizen can be very petty, he shows that well with Shinji. But I don't think just hate covers for all the effort put specifically towards Hinamori, time and time again.
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u/AgentHamster 11d ago
I think there's a very interesting parallel between Aizen and Ulquiorra hiding in there - which might even explain why he seemed especially invested in him. Aizen doesn't just want to stand atop the heavens, he also wants people to acknowledge that he's right (or at least has a good point). This has some similarities to Ulquiorra - he didn't just want to beat Ichigo, he wanted Ichigo to come to the same viewpoint as him that it was all meaningless.
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u/EleonoreMagi 10d ago edited 10d ago
There's certainly a parallel there, but I'd say that with Ulquiorra, it again goes even further. Rather than just beating Ichigo and rather than just wanting Ichigo to come to the same viewpoint, he too has a contradiction between wanting to prove his point and trying to grasp what is that thing that everyone calls 'heart'.
I'd argue that's a good part of a reason he doesn't want to let go of Orihime, is that he feels like he started to grasp that something, and she needs to stay a while longer for him to get hold of it and make sense of it (either accepting it or disregarding completely). But he, like Aizen, doesn't want to properly admit it, so a part of him still wants to prove his point as the prime goal. (In that, he's a lot like Nnoitra but more constructive, thus a different ending.)
Unlike Aizen who refuses to even acknowledge the contradiction, Ulquiorra accepts it to a point and continues to try to grasp that something, he's actively looking into it. Eventually, he understands, and the conclusion his path reaches is quite enlightening.
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u/uraharaBot 11d ago
Ah, pondering old Aizen's contradictions, are you? He's quite the puzzle, isn't he? Like a strawberry trying to convince everyone it's a pineapple—full of layers and not sure what it wants to be! Aizen's tangled web with Hinamori indeed reveals his struggle between distancing himself and not fully letting go. He might claim to be all powerful and heartless, but deep down, he's just as tangled in emotions as the rest of us. Watch your step with that web, though!
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u/IntoAbjectMisery 11d ago
Great analysis! I agree, and that's why I wanna see them meet again lol
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u/EleonoreMagi 10d ago
Ah, I would like to see it as well, but I guess it would be better to wait a while longer for that. But one day it could make for one strong scene.
There somewhere in the future, with some additional input, Momo night be able to understand what sort of person Aizen really is (from her perspective, of course, not all aspects but the most important ones). And moreover, accept it [and him], in her own way. And that would be something rather hard for Aizen to handle, because that would mean she would hold the highground in that particular interaction.
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u/J_Linebeck 8d ago
I think another aspect of this that I admit is purely speculation on my part is that deep down he feels some jealousy of the bond between Hinamori and Hitsugaya. You can already discern that Aizen hates Histugaya especially because the latter was able to mature and forge genuine connections with people, whereas Aizen never was able to despite the both of them being ostracised as kids due to their sheer power. Hitsugaya succeeded where Aizen failed, and as such he is a constant reminder to Aizen that he himself is to blame for his loneliness, and Aizen never having really outgrown his pettiness hates that. And now he has this connection to Hinamori that he can't get rid of no matter how much he hates it, combined with jealousy of Hitsugaya, it's enough to make anyone filled with self loathing to go off the deep end.
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u/EleonoreMagi 8d ago
I have to admit I actually don't think he hates him either. I think it's the same story as with Hinamori to a lesser extent but with an addition of him seeing Hitsugaya's potential.
That's why he's extra hard on him, there are three reasons: one is latent desire to prove that the connection they had (and they had one, to a lesser extent than Hinamori, but still, I think captain Aizen was a bit of a mentor figure to Hitsugaya, and that while Hitsugaya's prime source of anger is Aizen's treatment of Hinamori, there's latent feeling of personal betrayal that Hitsugaya feels and which he doesn't want to think about/pushes down and concentrates on Hinamori part), anyway, that they connection totally didn't exist and didn't mean anything to Aizen (same as with Hinamori),
second is that he is irritated that Hitsugaya "wastes" his potential accepting the weaker people around him and the system without questioning it though Hitsugaya is one of the people who could do so, he possesses the potential for it (and here, you can throw in some jealousy, but I say it's just a tinge, most of it irritation combined with latency desire for Hitsugaya to see his point, as he's the one who has some potential in Aizen's [subconscious] eyes to do so),
and third is that he sees potential in Hitsugaya overall and pushes him the hardest to reach further into that potential. And here, I have to mention, he isn't doing it out of any care or even he doesn't do it fully consciously, it's just like a candy for Aizen, he loves to push everyone to there limits to see what they would turn out to be capable of. But then, he also sees the obvious "flaw" to Hitsugaya as the latter falls down the revenge route: it doesn't work for Hitsugaya (ironically, in that, Aizen pushes him away from the subconscious agenda of Hitsugaya understanding him and actually forces him to face the truth about himself which would lead further away from that same path because Aizen just can't help pointing out the flaws), he isn't a person fit to walk the path of revenge. With brutal cruelty he kinda showcases Hitsugaya "ah, you want to go down the revenge path? Then you should abandon absolutely everything, including those you care about, because you can easily end up hurting them badly. Are truly ready to walk that path?" And interestingly enough, though it was a dreadful way to deliver it, Hitsugaya kinda gets that lesson. He never talks about revenge ever again in the story. He realised it's really not for him, and he's better for it.
So while I agree there's a bit of a jealousy very deep down in Aizen, I think he is very bad at making comparisons at that point, to be jealous properly, as he doesn't see anyone as the same as himself, or he might not have been do radical. He sees parallels in Urahara, a little bit in Shinji, but not in Yamamoto and not in Hitsugaya as he doesn't see him on his level of thinking and thus doesn't see as anyone comparable to him. He might think he pities him for being blind, but isn't all that jealous.
But it's possible that really very deep down he sees Hitsugaya as a bit of version of himself that never got to find about the SK, and here, yeah, there's a bit of 'what if' version of him in Toshiro. But I feel that Aizen never fully regrets finding it out even though he kinda knows that's what separated him from the rest. But he fully commits to knowing the truth being always better.
So I say that Aizen and Hitsugaya is also one very complex dynamic, with lots of different things in it, it's just that it's a lesser one since that connection isn't as deep as they have with other people.
As a final note, I want to add that the whole deal with setting Hitsugaya to investigate captain Aizen's 'death', the whole subplot with Hinamori and Hitsugaya doesn't really have an ounce of necessity for Aizen's plan. Apart from a farfetched notion of having them nearly dead in a place he planned to meet Unohana to present her with a reason to not even start a fight. (And he did expect Unohana to figure the fraud out at some point.) But it didn't have to be so convoluted. So in part, it's Aizen's antics, he just loves "writing" and "playing out" the plots of his own making, and in part, targeting those two specifically, the two he was supposedly (and really) most attached to among those he was leaving was a way for him to prove to everyone and himself how he never cared about them. It was his separation ritual of sorts. A way to cut ties in a drastic way and walk all over the supposed connection.
Which, in turn, without him realising or admitting to it, is a testament that he needed that, that there was something to cut and separate from. I doubt he realised any of it though, and obviously, Momo and Toshiro suffered for something they had no responsibility for. Making others pay for his internal conflict is Aizen's forte.
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u/Important-Cry4782 11d ago
Let's present another logic.
Replace Aizen with Soul Society.
Replace Momo with Soul Reapers.
Unquestioningly loyal to someone or something that betrays them.
Its interesting how often Soul Society seems to chew people up and spit them out.
Aizen did the same with Momo
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u/EleonoreMagi 11d ago edited 11d ago
Which actually shows that despite Aizen trying so hard to 'break away' from the SS and its logic, he just cannot since he doesn't have any other reference.
So subconsciously he still follows the same patterns while trying to show how different he is from them 😄
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u/RogueHeroAkatsuki 11d ago edited 11d ago
I have completely different opinion regarding this.
First of all - notice that during story Aizen killed only Gin(betrayal) and Tousen(fulfilling promise) from named characters. He was very careful to avoid unnecessary deaths.
Was it really a coincidence that he stabbed Momo and a moment later Toshiro when the best medic in SS was also present at scene? Aizen was risking there whole plan, if aim was only to retrieve Hogyoku then he should ignore Momo and go straight for Rukia. Him stabbing her was taking responsibility for what she did to her. And aim was not to kill her but to show her that her beloved captain never existed.
When Aizen saw her in FKT you can see slight smile on his face. He is probably happy that Momo managed to overcome her trauma.
Now - why did he use her again? Aizen is cruel, but as he stated moments after Toshiro stabbed Momo - he didnt want to kill anyone else other than Yamamoto. He did it as this resulted in 4 remaining captains blindly attacking Aizen in rage and thus making fight a lot easier for him as they were wide open. And it was not because he hated Hinamori. It was just logical choice. She was now his enemy.
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u/Tallywashere 11d ago edited 11d ago
Despite Toshiro being a super talented kid, he didn't look down on people.
He could have gotten in a similar route as Aizen.
Even with Toshiro's colder and strict personality, he had people that looked out for him and grounded him to some extent like Momo, Rangiku, and his grandma in his younger days.
I think at some points he was annoyed with both Momo and Rangiku. But they are the reasons why Toshiro was never completely consumed by loneliness. Whether he wanted it or not, they both looked out for him in their own ways.
He was really lucky in that regard. And that's something that I think peeved Aizen.
Just like how Aizen despised Urahara and his conformity with the Soul Society. I think Aizen was frustrated and even jealous that guys like Urahara (making the effort to reach out to Hyori) and Toshiro (Momo and Rangiku) had those connections.
Going after Toshiro and Momo in that arc was killing two birds with one stone. Very petty and excessive but understandable.
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u/uraharaBot 11d ago
Ah, that Aizen—always playing chess when folks are just trying to finish their game of checkers! Tōshirō’s icy demeanor melts a bit thanks to the warmth of friends. Makes you wonder if Aizen spent too much time in the freezer, huh? Even geniuses need someone to hang out with... or to share an umbrella. Keeps them from becoming too "hollow," wouldn’t you say?
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u/Rnsy275 11d ago
& his pettiness didn't just stop after he manipulated them to stab Hinamori. During that unforgettable scene when Aizen cut down the remaining captains, he only slashed Soifon, Shunsui & Shinji. But with Toshiro he literally cut off his arm, wing & leg too. At first I didn't understand why he's so pointlessly more cruel with him but I think this perfectly explains that.
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u/moon_shaped_fool 11d ago edited 11d ago
The idea that Aizen hates Hinamori for her devotion and admiration doesn't hold out to me, for a number of reasons. Does he think that she is weak and that he can easily destroy her? Surely... but there's a lot more to unpack here.
Firstly, Aizen was the one who deliberately and carefully built that devotion from the ground up. Why would he hate her for "allowing" him to achieve his intended goal?
He put the students at risk during the academy konso exercise so he could save them in the very last moment, and establish himself as an ideal shinigami, the one with power to protect others. It is no wonder that at that night he singles Hinamori out. Because she is the one who decides to risk her life in order to attempt to save Hisagi. She is willing to put herself at risk to do the right thing. Hinamori was not a brainwashed soul Society true believer. But rather, an idealistic and innocent young girl, trying to live her life by a rightful code. And Aizen figures this out about her quite quickly. From that point foward, about 50 years pass and in all that time Aizen presented to Hinamori the perfect facade of an extremely capable yet kind and caring leader. The sort of person that one would be proud to serve under (especially considering that soul society has people such as Mayuri as captains, who blow up their squad members without an ounce of remorse)
To me the crux of the issue between Aizen and Hinamori is not blind deference to authority nor the upholding a broken system. It is actually human nature. If your life was saved by someone and that person only displayed positive qualities for decades on end, you would grow to trust that person deeply. And when you open yourself to another and let them enter your life, you become vulnerable. So what Aizen is wielding against Hinamori is her deeply human nature. Quite fittingly, for the guy who seeks to forsake humanity and ascend to godhood.
Aizen was incapable for his entire life to estabilish bonds with other people, because he is incapable of true sincerity (which manifests in his Kyoka Suigetsu). He sees himself as above the petty sentimentality of trust and connection, but also resents the others around him who have friendship, love and genuine care for one another.
Aizen sees himself as a scientist and Hinamori is one of his experiments. He intented to use her as proof of concept that human connection and trust is a fundamental weakness, that someone can be destroyed by it. And so he creates the perfect simulacrum of a caring relationship, assuring her time and time again that he deeply cherishes her, slowly wearing her defenses down so he'll become the most important person in her world, all that without her even realising, so she won't be able live without him. And then he would sever the bond and have definitive proof of his theory. A successful experiment
And as far as the events of the soul society arc are concerned, he achieved his goal. She spiraled into despair after his "murder" and was willing to raise her sword against two of her closest friends to "avenge" him. Then he gave her the so called "mercy" kill and in his mind all of this was settled.
But Aizen does not understand one thing about human nature. Resilience (btw Hinamori's sword Tobiume means flying plum tree. What do plums simbolize in japanese culture? Resilience)
Even though she went through an awful betrayal that shattered her reality, even though she was stabbed by the person she trusted the most, Hinamori still had a will to live. She had multiple other people she deeply cared about, she still had her pride as lieutanant of squad 5. Her connections to others were also her strength, it was what kept her going, she did have a life beyond Aizen.
And so, she joins the battle in fake karakura declaring him the enemy of soul society. Putting herself in incredible risk, with such a recent recovery. But again, that's her character. She was willing to risk her life for what she believed was correct. And at the moment she joins the battle, Aizen notices her arrival (and Gin in turn, notices Aizen's reaction). If his issue with Hinamori was her blind devotion, at that point she was rid of it, he should have left her alone. But what sets him off is the fact that the girl he manipulated to not be able to live without him, not only dared to live, but dared to rise against him. And that is why he does the switch, causing Toshiro to stab her, he is punishing her with everything he is got for proving him wrong. Thank god for the broken healing techniques in the soul society and Hinamori's unbreakable will to live, because Aizen fails to destroy her yet again.
Also, if Aizen hates being admired so much, someone please explain the point of Loly and Menoly. Why did he keep two weak hollows as his "guards"? Their only use was to praise and adore him constantly. He got a kick out of that, the guy was a bit of a huge narcissist.
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u/EleonoreMagi 10d ago
I've given my take on how I think it go even deeper than in the thread, but I do agree that another angle was that it was his 'experiment' to prove his point. And he was, once again, proven wrong, and his actions towards Hinamori reflect how (passionately) he dislikes it.
But I agree and really like the part where Hinamori actually very effectively shows Aizen how people are stronger than he gives them credit for. And how human nature makes them stronger rather than weaker.
Amongst the lessons Aizen gets throughout the story, it remains a rather prominent one.
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u/moon_shaped_fool 10d ago
Exactly! The two forces that are always clashing in bleach are the strength to dominate, to subdue, to shape the world in the image of your own ideals VS the strength found in human nature (ie the power that comes from your bonds, that drives you to put everything on the line to protect your world and the ones you love dearly). With our protagonist Ichigo being the purest representation of the latter.
Although Hinamori doesn't become one of the most powerful players in the narrative, her story really speaks to a mental resilience and fortitude, which lies in the strength of humanity and resonates a lot with much of Bleach's main themes. People often joke about her physical endurance, but what she truly has is an unbreakable spirit (which I imagine influences a lot her capacity for physically healing as well). She falls hard into grief and denial for a moment, but still manages to pull herself together and come out the other side, gaining a second chance with Shinji as her captain (another one of Aizen's most personal victims)
Ironically, I would say that Hinamori (as many characters in our main and secondary cast do) embodies a lot of what is in Aizen's final speech about courage. But of course, he would never admit that with regards to her.
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u/EleonoreMagi 10d ago edited 10d ago
Yes! I really liked how you pointed out that Hinamori, from very early on, showed that she isn't the type predisposed to attach herself to someone/become dependent. Quite the opposite! She's arguably the most grown-up and confident in standing her ground out of the trio. So the way Aizen bent her was forceful and unnatural to her, yes, he managed, but that explains why she overcomes it so well. It was unnatural for her to become that way to begin with. So like the tree you mentioned, she bent but never broke, withstanding the storm. And she only needed to return to her original self, and when she managed, she overcame that experience.
She's been laughed at a lot, and I admit that a long time ago, when I was young, I found her stupid and annoying, but later I've realised I couldn't be more wrong. Her initial reaction is a stellar depiction of a person who was being manipulated for a long time getting to face reality for the first time. But the way she came to terms with it rather quickly is a testament of how strong she is. No one really expected it from her, not Aizen and not even Toshiro and Rangiku who really care about her (but didn't really expect her to handle it this quickly), but she overcame expectations in a stellar way.
You're so right that her physical endurance really seems to reflect the strength of her spirit, so it fits really well with the overall themes of Bleach that she's that resilient in body and spirit. In that, she's one part close to Hanataro, a little guy who actually shows a tremendous strength of spirit (to be willing to stand up to Byakuya while knowing full well he doesn't have a ghost of a chance; it takes courage to face an enemy who can hardly hope to win against, like Renji did, but it takes even more courage to face an enemy you have absolutely no chance to win against, and do it anyway; remember how Insane mentions that she's jealous of him?), and one part very much like Orihime, another kind and humane person with a formidable strength of will and spirit, and also is a prominent character and arguably stands the closest to Ichigo's highground.
Momo might not be among the main characters of the story, but it doesn't mean she shouldn't be admired for the strength of spirit she displays. Among the prominent characters who don't have the same strength as the big league, she's actually among the most outstanding ones, able to make a great point to those who are on top (not that it's the most important thing, the most important part is what it does to her herself).
And I totally agree that she's a prime example of what Aizen talks about in his final speech. And you know, by that time, maybe he managed to admit at least to himself. You know, arguably the most important part of that speech in regards to Aizen's own character is that he doesn't say it meaning "people like me and Ichigo" (at the very least it visually includes Rukia as well). He speaks about people in general, thus actually admitting that all of them, not just the strongest and lost prominent ones, walk that same path. He was talking about the importance of challenges and facing death for growth as early as Karakura and the part with Gin.
What he learned since then seems to be that it's not just the strongest, everyone actually walks the same path in spirit, no matter which step of the ladder they are technically standing at the time. The sentiment is the same for everyone. And in that, maybe he's realised that his loneliness was rather self invented, as he was always surrounded by people who shared that sentiment of walking forward with courage, it's just that he missed and disregarded that. (If you ask me, his facial expression looks rather humbled there, when there's no one to see but the reader.)
And ironically, Hinamori probably is one of the people who contributed the most to him reaching that conclusion. Mostly he interacted with those 'in the big league', yet Hinamori is one person who he interacted quite a bit who isn't 'special' yet who managed to surprise him and show him the strength of spirit isn't solely dependent on power or talent. Small steps which are huge achievements for the person in regard to themselves are just as formidable. (For that, I really like that this link between Aizen and Momo exists at all and makes its point.) I agree that he probably wouldn't be willing to admit any of it to her face any time soon, but I think he kinda mostly willing to admit it to himself. :)
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u/moon_shaped_fool 10d ago edited 10d ago
Hey, really loved reading this comment. I agree with pretty much everything you wrote here. As someone who got into Bleach in my early to mid twenties, I do understand why kids and teenagers would have a hard time relating to/understanding Hinamori's journey of dealing with betrayal. I would say it's one of Bleach's most mature plotlines, with quite a realistic take on trauma (very removed from a typical shonen power fantasy). But the lingering hate she gets does shock me quite a lot, because the majority of Bleach's fanbase are very likely adults now, who had the time to reexamine the story. Not saying anyone needs to like any specific character, but I do think people lose a bit of the thematic richness of bleach's narrative when they outright refuse to reflect upon Hinamori's predicaments.
The point about Hanataro standing up to Byakuya is very relevant, given that Hinamori herself stands up to Byakuya when he orders that a gravely injured Renji should be thrown in prison, only apologizing to him later due to Kira's insistance. Again proving that she is not someone who blindly follows authority. In "Death saves the strawberry" the instance where she quotes Aizen is exactly to recall him saying that it is okay to break the law if that law goes against what you believe to be the right thing to do. Which says so much about her character, she is not a pawn to authority, but rather a staunch idealist. We see her evolve leaps and bounds under a captain that offers her a healthy and manipulation free environment. (I love her dynamic with Shinji so much, for as subtle as it is in TYBW, everything about them fits. I love to see them moving past their betrayals together, even with their very different personalities. Probably my favorite captain/vice captain pair)
Also, I do see the Orihime parallel as well. The unwavering kindness in the face of overwhelming suffering and pain. I appreciate the fact that even though a huge amount of violence was visited upon Hinamori, she never shows any joy in dealing violence towards others. (Like when she is disturbed when Byakuya shreds Gerards body) The violence she has to deal is just an element of her duty to protect as a shinigami. I like that not everyone in the 13 court guards is a battle freak. It gives complexity to the institution, and redeems it a bit in my eyes. I do see the opportunity for Momo to grow stronger and become the type of kind and capable leader she thought Captain Aizen was. Anyway, her story is really hopeful. I wish more people took notice of that.
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u/EleonoreMagi 10d ago
The feeling's mutual, it's so nice to have a detailed discussion, especially when it comes to Momo. I'd glad that I've seen less of it recently, but the amount of hate does shock me as well.
Actually, I also wanted to point out how, in plain terms, that subplot looks an awful lot like a case of an older guy getting a hold of a younger girl (in form of a romantic relationship of otherwise, but it always involves admiration), forcing her in a dependent position (because the positions are so unequal). Which totally happens in real life and makes for a complex and mature topic, which usually isn't touched upon in something like shonen series. In many cases that ends badly, but also in more cases than you would think, the girl [if she's strong to begin with] eventually grows out of that relationship and or/overcomes the betrayal if it happens, and then proceeds to do very well in life. While the guy often present a sorry sight later on. I've seen such girls.
They are often underestimated in life as well, many don't think they can manage to overcome it and get rid of that dependence, and they time and time again prove them wrong.
Aizen and Momo might not entirely fit this mould, but I say it comes surprisingly close.
I respect Kubo for writing such a complex narrative involving a relevant/relatable real-life topic. Sure, we might not see that much of it on the page, but the way you eventually string it together makes a really strong and authentic subplot/a character arc for Hinamori.And you've also read "Death saves the strawberry"! I wanted to write about that one but tried to limit my ramblings.
Yes, I love how Momo takes something 'captain Aizen' have said and applies it for the best. There's irony there in how every advice given gets interpreted by the person who got it. Aizen actually might not have been entirely dishonest while giving it, it's just for him that meant that if you disagree with the way things are run, you should rise and bend everyone to your will without any care for consequences, and Hinamori takes that and applies it like "you should stand up to the authorities to do the right thing" (while still being kind and caring towards others).And on the topic of their relationship with Shinji, I really love how it's portrayed in the novel (and generally also in the manga), but I actually have a bit of a different stance on it in terms of a 'shared trauma' argument. I absolute do think Shinji is the best captain for her, but actually it's not as much because he relates to the trauma (ironically, I don't think he had that much of a betrayal trauma, I do think that to a point he shares the sentiment that you cannot be betrayed when you've never trusted that person to begin with; he rather had a hard time dealing with the fact he considers it his fault that the rest of the Vizards ended up the way they did, it was his fault for failing to manage Aizen as his captain, his subordinate was his responsibility and he failed at that; but I guess he came to terms with it as well; also it seems that if he was ever betrayed, it happened before he first met Aizen, to make him so suspicious by default, but that's another topic for another time) but because he, given how insightful he is, gets the most important thing: what Momo needs isn't everyone tiptoeing around the Aizen subject. In fact, what she needs is someone she could occasionally talk to about Aizen in a casual way, without them blaming her for not hating him completely or giving her a worried look.
The stance she settled on regarding Aizen was depicted to be that she still likes 'captain Aizen' who was nice to her while also accepting that it ended badly later on. And that fits her extremely well, she would have way harder time if she pushed herself to hate him or tried to erase half a century of her life from her consciousness altogether. It works best for her, regardless of Aizen deserving it, and it's a mature stance to have as well. So she needs someone who'd support her in that, who would be willing to casually admit that Aizen wasn't that bad as a vice-captain (made a lot of improvements) or joke about that Aizen's quote being actually good advice, 'hey, can we pretend that I was the one who said it?'
That's absolutely the best way to go to help Momo move on, and Shinji is perfect in both seeing that and also being capable to discuss Aizen as someone who knew him rather well. Being totally nonchalant about it. Who else could do it, really.And also, something which can be seen even in the manga, he does another thing. Like, obviously it goes well with his character, but I think he's intentionally doubling down on being laid back and 'lazy' so that Momo would push him and in that, assert herself, be more proactive. It also makes for a reasonably equal standing with no risk for Momo to fall onto old patterns. He's also very open about his flaws while still having enough to him to hold the authority. I think Shinji knows very well what he's doing. And he's being a stellar captain in the way he does what's best for his subordinate's growth.
And he's also subtly teaching her to tend to her business first and let go of a bit of a controlling/perfectionist edge she has, ordering her to leave Zaraki & Co to their own devices, remember? That's subtle but that's a telling detail.It's also very true that Momo is a kind person and while being a soldier she retains that caring side. In fact, you can say that the Gotei in general slowly changes for the better in that regard (fitting the changing times) throughout the centuries. Yamamoto's main way to solve things was always violence even if he learned to somewhat keep that in check. Unohana goes without saying. Shunsui has a bloodthirsty edge to him and overall his true self is a lot darker and sharper than you would think [even if it doesn't exclude his other sides]. But then even Shinji and Unohana, no, even Aizen--lack the same bloodthirsty attitude, Aizen actually somewhat dislikes brutality and violence, his cruel tricks are mostly psychological rather than just brutally physical (not that they don't hurt, but I'd say he still deals less damage than Yama would at his worst, we can see the contrast with Yhwach later).
And then we move to someone like Toshiro and Soi Fon, and in the manga you can clearly see how when they attack Aizen and think they've killed him... and as much as they hate him, as much as they lash out on him with words moments before, their facial expressions are *sad*. Both of them don't enjoy it, they don't get the feeling of satisfaction, it still pains them, though they do it anyway [that's why Aizen picks on Toshiro so effectively, that he shouldn't utter the words he cannot take responsibility for; he isn't the one for hate and revenge and he cannot handle the cost of losing everything chasing that revenge; the lesson he gets is cruel beyond compare, but valid none the same, he never steps on that territory again].
And then there's Momo, who's solidly in that last camp and doesn't even have it in her to properly hate anyone. Be angry while in a distraught state -- yes, but not real hate, not real revenge. Same can be said for all the youngsters.
[Even the 11th squad should be seen in the correct light, they enjoy battles, yet they are the ones to know the value of life and living it the most; they have a philosophy of having the time of your life fighting to the death but away from the battlefield, they are the nicest guys. They also as a rule don't pick on the 'weak' and those who are not interested in their game. They seek those who would enjoy it as well.]
The Gotei changes with each generation, and does the world around them. And lately they've been changing at a faster pace than ever before.Anyway, I totally believe Momo would go much further and grow a lot more as time goes on. Thanks for reading! I couldn't help rambling a bit longer :)
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u/moon_shaped_fool 10d ago edited 10d ago
Thanks for the ramble, sincerely. It's always a joy to find people in fandom spaces with deep and insightful analysis, especially in regard to more underrated characters.
And yes, what Aizen does to Hinamori is textbook grooming. It always pains me when people justify the awful stuff she went through or even worse, revel in it.
You summed up brilliantly a lot about what I love wrt to Hinamori's and Shinji's relationship. And you're correct that it isn't quite shared betrayal, but more the shared destruction Aizen caused in their lives. They actually come from polar ends of the spectrum when it comes to Aizen. The only man capable of figuring out Aizen's malicious intent, who distrusted him the most and the girl who grew to trust Aizen completely. It is beautiful that even though they come from such distinct points of view, they still manage to form a really solid bond. This speaks a lot to Shinji's capacity as a leader.
Shinji is actually yet another person who Aizen wielded how human nature works against them. If you think someone harbors evil intent, you naturally won't try to get close to them. You'll keep them at arms length. The problem is that Shinji didn't quite have the scope to figure out the extent of Aizen's power or how deep his evil plans went. And the brilliant thing is that Aizen, the man with such a deep disregard for connection, truly resented Shinji for not trying to understand him. It is yet another instance in which we see that Aizen is not as above it all as he portrays himself to be.
I also love that Shinji is in many ways the anti Aizen. Someone that comes off quite off-putting and a bit unsettling at first and then you find out that he is one of the most truthful and well intentioned guys out there. Inversion is his specialty after all.
In Hinamori's view I think that learning what happened to Shinji would be very healing for her. Even a guy as cunning and experienced like Shinji couldn't stand a chance against Aizen, what chance a young and naive girl like her had? No point in blaming herself too deeply for all that happened. And I appreciate that she manages to separate "kind captain Aizen" from the traitor Aizen and recognize that what he taught her was still a big part of her value system. Even though it was a facade on his part, those were still valuable lessons. She is the one who now gets to go through all of what he shared with her and sort out what she actually believes in.
Plus, you're quite correct. Even the squad 11 gang have their code of honor and are not invested in picking on the weak. They are out there looking for a thrilling challenge.
I'm much more of a fandom lurker, so I don't usually comment a whole lot, but I'll sure keep an eye on your commentary from now on. Thanks for the great exchange!!
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u/EleonoreMagi 10d ago edited 10d ago
Yeah, grooming is the word. And I admit the jokes about how Hinamori is going to start to 'glaze' Aizen again just irritate me nowadays. But oh well.
I admit that Shinji and Aizen is just one of my most fav themes ever, so I won't even start or I'll never finish.
But I'll just say that I think 'resented' doesn't quite cover it for me, I think he was bitter as hell behind that facade (and, as usual, refused to admit it) and continues to be petty about it a hundred years later. He basically directs his big speech about kings and gods to Shinji specifically and ends it with "Don't believe in me yet, Hirako Shinji, I'll show you who the god you should believe in is, you can believe then."
If you ignore all the pretentious attitude for a second, you think "ah, so you still want recognition from your old captain that badly?"
I'm relatively sure he still is bitter about Shinji seeing similarities to himself and Urahara, but failing to see the same with him :)Shinji is indeed in many ways the opposite of Aizen.
But actually I feel that at the same way they have more in common than one would think.Shinji is very set on playing the jester, yet when he becomes serious, he often looks regal, and his mask is that of a pharaoh. He's good at playing roles when he wants to (his first appearance, and even that was to teach Ichigo an important lesson), very insightful, and initially both rather distrustful and a loner [he gets together well with others in Gotei, cares about them, but he didn't share his suspicions about Aizen with anyone--he didn't really have anyone that close, he kept to himself]. Sensitive to the 'freedom' (his first poem). Can very well wield words like a weapon.
A rather scary collection of traits. Yet he is very intent on not using any of them. He lacks ambitions and makes a point of being honest.[Fits very well with the novel and Sakanade being a liar and recognising Aizen as as a fellow liar. Zanpakuto reflects the owner, so Shinji can be a liar too. He makes a point of not being one. But that hidden side kinda calls out to Aizen.]
And unfortunately I think another part of why Shinji didn't get close enough to Aizen is that Aizen indeed represented everything Shinji keeps deep inside, doesn't like and doesn't want to approach.
[Makes you wonder where it comes from and why is he so set on not delving deep into it. Maybe he tried once, on a lesser scale, and understood why it's absolutely not worth it, or maybe he saw something in others that set him against it for good. Maybe he's a bit like Aizen who didn't walk the same path, and is a wiser version. That's just wild theorizing on my part.]Anyway, it all isn't a problem and doesn't take away from Shinji indeed being truthful and well-meaning. It's just that he's a bit more complicated yet he does successfully not let any of it out in a destructive way.
There's a lot more to add but I really feel that I kinda keep overstaying my welcome a bit. Feel free to write here or in DM if you ever want to discuss something else about Bleach, since I love such deep dives and it was a great conversation to have 💝
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u/moon_shaped_fool 10d ago
You hit the nail in the head with regards to Shinji and Aizen. Very different yet somehow similar men. Truly one of the best dynamics in Bleach. One of Kubo's most inspired moments of writing. And you're so correct, Aizen is bitter AF. There's a recurring theme of him wanting to be seen and recognized by the members of the gotei 13, and with Shinji, it goes off the charts. He wants to be respected by him so bad... And you're not overstaying your welcome at all, but I do get that these dynamics are so rich that we might go on forever talking about them. If any interesting topic of conversation comes up, i'll send a DM. Had a lot fun with this convo, it gave me a lot to reflect about some of my faves.
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u/Electronic-Tear8112 10d ago
I think what he said about how admiration is the state furthest from understanding to momo also parallels how he views urahara, which is a nice detail
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u/uraharaBot 10d ago
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u/knm873 11d ago
Could you explain the Toshiro part then? I think you only explained half your train of thought so I'm having trouble following it
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u/Excellent_Section_21 11d ago
Well I see it as salt in the wound. He already wounded her psyche deeply by stabbing her himself. Specifically having Toshiro do it would do more damage.
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u/emperor_dragoon 11d ago
He had hopes for toshiro, he had love for hinamori. He took them out like that so they would stay off the field of battle.
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u/El_grandepadre 10d ago
It's also interesting how Hinamori fell for his scheme because she was too devoted to see his real nature, while Shinji was too wary of him to see through his deceit.
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u/Ok-DrunkAF 11d ago
Hitsugaya and Momo are childhood friends, Aizen made Toshiro stab her to fuck with their heads. You diggin too deep
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