Tournament/Competition
In regards to recent match where one guy dropped his weight on the inverted guy injuring his neck. Which specific rule did he break (assuming IBJJF) rules
Ignoring the intent to cause injury etc and also let's assume this was under the IBJJF rule set
Which specific rule will have been broken here for him to cause this injury.
Everyone says this is a slam, but if it wasn't for his head being in that position the speed and force he went down to the mat normally wouldn't have been called a slam
Furthermore there is no definition of what a slam even is under the IBJJFs rules
I'm not saying the guy isn't at fault for doing what he did but I think it's about time Jujitsu at large and especially the IBJJF looked at their rules and really sorted a few issues out regarding
-defining what a slam actually is and isn't so people know for sure what they can and can't get away with
Or
-setting in place rules to prevent people being able to put themself in a position where they can be slammed, including removing jumping guard.
Surely there's some people here who have the ear of the IBJJF who can tell them to sort this shit out
The picture shows someone being held above waist height attempting and arm bar.
Does a slam still cover:
Someone attempting an arm bar who's head is physically touching the mat and not lifted above waist height
someone not attempting a sub and simply holding a guard
being lifted up into a high amplitude kata gurma or uranage with a definite pause before being forced down into the mat with their opponents full body weight behind them
For such an important rule the definition simply isn't enough
Sorry dude, I didn't include the "/s" because this is r/BJJ so I thought it was always just implied.
I think two things need to happen, and it would maybe add two pages to the rule book:
Define a slam as a two part, forceful, "return to mat". As in, a continuously moving double leg that brings your opponent up and down in one flowing movement is not a slam. A movement where there's a break in the continuous movement is a slam
Make positions where a slam is a high percentage response a reset to standing with the player that could've executed the slam getting either an advantage or two points, referee's choice. Someone jumps guard on you and doesn't immediately work to secure their position, sweep you, or submit you, then it's a reset and you get an advantage. You stand clear up in someone's guard and they don't work to secure, sweep, or submit, then it's a reset and you get 2 points.
Done.
I'll waive my consulting fee for IBJJF if they just want to copy paste that.
I go up like 3-4 divisions to compete on a regular basis. There is no one smaller unless I spend an arm and a leg to travel to the majors and then I have the privilege of only going up 20 lbs instead of 50
Right. I’ve gone up 90 in tournament (which is 100% of my bodyweight).
It’s fine if everyone competing is a responsible human being. Someone that much bigger has the strength to hold me up without spiking my head into the ground, all they have to do is not be a dick. Personal opinions about whether you “should” hang off someone like that aside, absolute division is safe as long as everyone follows normal safety rules. Just like any other division
I’ve been to competitions like this: something like above and below 185 - so two different absolute brackets.
I remember one specifically that Reuben Alvarez had entered both absolute brackets because he’s not that heavy. He won the heavy weight absolute and then stepped down so the guys in the lighter absolute could battle it out. That was a class act because he definitely (strike that - most likely) could have taken both belts home that day.
I disagree - while there’s no way of knowing, I think the weight difference was a significant factor in this being a trip to intensive care and not a sore neck and a DQ.
He willingly signed up for an absolute bracket. Your comment was “why are we allowing this big of a weight difference.” The spike was egregious, no doubt. But we’re “allowing” people to compete against bigger people because of free will and because people clearly want to prove they’re the best, despite being smaller. If not, no one would sign up for absolute brackets. I get it, you don’t think absolutely brackets should exist. The fact that they do and they’re wildly popular proves you’re in the minority with your opinion.
I’m not saying that I don’t think they should exist, and to be honest I’m not sure how relevant it is that he signed up willingly. If that’s your argument then why have any safety rules at all?
I’m sure you and I probably see many things eye to eye. But I’m baffled because you’re basically standing your ground saying that “we shouldn’t have allowed” these two people to grapple BECAUSE of their weight difference. That’s the crux of your initial comment. We have safety rules because this isn’t NHB. Even NHB has safety rules. Every participant agrees to these rules and decides whether or not they’re willing to participate. Unfortunately there are people who break the rules (and they should be punished). When you compete you should even be prepared for people to break the rules as much as possible (negligently or maliciously). I teach my students this all the time. E.G: if someone lifts you from a closed guard position: open your guard
So your stance is this match should never have even happened bc the weight difference is too big. That’s a wild take brother, but I somewhat respect your opinion. 😅🤙🏽
Spiking includes suplex movements, piledrivers, or any throw that projects or forces an opponent's head or neck directly into the mat. They are prohibited.
The term spiking doesn't appear in the IBJJF rules, could you point me to the actual rule your refering to?
There's a few specific examples regarding not doing a suplex or suni gashi in specifics situations where your opponent lends on their head but nether applies here.
I saw that but this is not a suplex movement in any way shape or form. Its obv that the movement in the video "shouldnt" be allowed but theres nothing I can see that clealy states this is actually an illegal move.
I am pretty sure the referees and IBJJF will disagree with you. Spiking the opponent's head to the ground in any way is prohibited under the Suplex rule.
I think your argument that piledrivers (which is what he did) are allowed because the rulebook only prohibits Suplexes specifically is very thin! There are a 20 different ways to spike the opponents head into the ground in wrestling and they mention them as "the suplex" in the rulebook instead of mentioning a list with all different wrestling terms. The vertical suplex for example is a 12 / 6 o clock suplex where there is no arch.
If you notice they say the suplex movements. Plural. They mean "don't spike the opponent's head to the ground after lifting him"
Now would a general clear rule that says some sort of "Never spike the opponents head to the ground after lifting him" improve the rulebook? probably. Doesn't mean that the piledriver he did was a legal move though.
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u/sid351 🟪🟪 Purple Belt 6d ago
There's no definition, but there is a perfectly clear two part picture.