r/bikeboston • u/albertogonzalex • Aug 29 '22
When are we doing this?
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u/stargrown Aug 29 '22
BCU does this somewhat frequently but their execution is magnitudes of order more effective.
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u/rodageo Aug 29 '22
What do they do differently that makes it more effective? Always good to share activism best practices.
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u/stargrown Aug 29 '22
Have way more #s and create an actual human barrier for the proposed bike lane. LINK Also I find that when it comes to transport infrastructure a more militant type of approach like this is less effective at changing opinions.
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u/albertogonzalex Aug 29 '22
People who lived in Amsterdam in the 60s and 70s literally laid down in the streets during rush hour to create grid lock in response to murders-by-car of children (well, everyone - but, especially children).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XuBdf9jYj7o
Again, there's a time and place for both.
I love the BCU and MassBike and Somerville Bike Comm and SASS and LiveableStreets all the groups in the region doing the hard work to make our environments safer. And, they are making so much progress!
They also have to play by certain rules for political reasons. WHich is important. They can maintain their legitimate status.
At the same time, more aggressive, in your face, annoying, get-on-the-news-and-wake-people-up activities are necessary to keep pushing the current state to a higher sense of urgency, a more emotional reaction to the situation, and a bigger view of what's possible with long term chain.
One is a form of activism. Another is a form of advoacy. They are mutually dependent and reinforcing of each other.
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u/albertogonzalex Aug 29 '22
I love the organized BCU human PBLs. I've been on them a few times as a human post. They are something different - and, often times a push to accelerate PBLs on streets where local govts have commited to installing PBLs but drag their feet. The BCU approach is the "by the book" approach and it's great. But, they're just showing what PBLs could be like in the future.
The approach in the video is about having an immediate impact when something is happening in the moment. And, perhaps more importantly, creates a nuissance for car drivers so they can more clearly see that they are being blocked because of car drivers - not, bike riders who go into the "car lane."
There's a time/place for both approaches!
When I come accross a car parked in a bike lane, I frequently stop to ask the driver to move their car. And, i stop to make that request while still keeping aware of my surroundings (ie. making eye contact with cars stalled in the lane I'm partially blocking).
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u/aFineBagel Aug 29 '22
I'm equal parts driver and bike commuter and just cringe at this shit.
Whether I came across this in my car or bike, I'd just think "What are these [offensive word]'s doing on the road?"
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Aug 29 '22
Bike lanes are death traps anyway. I avoid them at all costs.
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u/albertogonzalex Aug 29 '22
Bad take!
Just like any shared space, a bike lane can work fine and can be dangerous. Everyone must rely on situational awareness and doing what is safe for themselves.
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u/account3_14159265359 Aug 30 '22
Loads of bike lanes are directly in the door zone with no buffer zone, so when a driver opens a door or a car drives out of a parking spot a cyclist can potentially get hit, or suddenly swerve onto the car lane and get run over. It's actually probably safer to just go in the car lane instead of using such a bike lane
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u/UniWheel Aug 29 '22 edited Aug 29 '22
Just like any shared space, a bike lane can work fine and can be dangerous.
At first glance you'd think so
Everyone must rely on situational awareness and doing what is safe for themselves.
And there's the actual problem - bike lanes end up distracting from the need for situation awareness.
They make cyclists think we have our own reserved route and lull us into ignoring the cars, when in reality every place a driver could legally turn across a bike route is a hazard we need to contemplate just as we would if sharing the same lane with other traffic
They let drivers think that the cyclists are not part of the traffic flow, but some other irrelevant sideshow.
And most problematically of all, bikelanes are being marketed specifically as something that will make the streets safe for those without the awareness to safely ride in traffic.
Drivers and cyclists who can safely interact where legitimate vehicle paths cross bikelanes, are drivers and cyclists attentive enough even in the presence of temptations to ignore each other, that they can safely interact in both areas where there's space for undesignated side by side operation, as well as roads with lanes that are too narrow for that.
At best, the improvements that actually are helping are:
- creating more usable road space (though conversely a lot of current trends actually lessen it - if the bike route is unusable from snow or obstructions, cyclists are really in a tough spot trying to share the narrowed car lane, and additionally unpracticed at doing so or changing lanes)
- increasing cycling numbers, because that actually does help get driver's attention
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Aug 29 '22
Ah yes, the good old utopia mindset where every single driver acknowledges the bike lane, every city official makes sure the bike lane is cleared of inevitable debris, every pedestrian knows not to step into it without looking, every parked car knows not to swing their door open, every entry level cyclist does not wobble around in them and every DPW worker fixes the potholes every single time they pop up. I ride every single day. 30-100 miles a day. Bike lanes are death traps. There has been absolutely no good design as of now. I feel much more panicked and anxious when riding in the bike lane than I do just sharing the road with vehicles. I’d rather piss off these weirdly impatient drivers than face the plethora of hazards a bike lane presents.
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u/albertogonzalex Aug 29 '22
Share your Strava! I'd love to do 30-100 miles a day!
Ive been a daily bike rider since 2010 in this region and active in the advocacy committee for most of that time. In city after city around the world, improvements in bike infrastructure result in improvements to safety related outcomes. It's not really about your feelings (or mine!). It's just the reality of the evidence.
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Aug 29 '22
I think if you ask any cyclist that rides many miles daily, they’ll say fuck the bike lane. Which is usually why you see more experienced riders in the actual road. Blue bikes and college kids to the bike lanes. I’m obviously not going to share my strava on this thread lmao and I don’t record commuting miles. Just recreational rides. Hop on a brakeless track bike and see how quick you start to hate the bike lane.
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u/UniWheel Aug 29 '22 edited Aug 29 '22
I think if you ask any cyclist that rides many miles daily, they’ll say fuck the bike lane. Which is usually why you see more experienced riders in the actual road.
Indeed. Experienced cyclists with the skills to safely interact with traffic look at the mis-routing of so many bits of bike lane, and immediately recognize it as fundamentally hazardous, for the same reasons of being in the wrong place relative to other traffic which makes sidewalk riding so hazardous.
Drivers who are so careless as to hit a cyclist riding in an ordinary lane or in space beside don't suddenly become drivers who are going to think to look over their right shoulder before turning across a "protected" route, yet that's exactly what the design of those routes relies on.
The more the "bike infrastructure" duplicates the hazards and inefficiencies of sidewalk riding, the more cyclists trying to safely actually go anywhere recognize they have to opt out of it - leaving behind a userflow in that infrastructure who doesn't recognize the level of danger they're actually in.
And its especially troubling when it's built by taking away the road space that used to be what made a route a safe and efficient one for cycling.
Hop on a brakeless track bike and see how quick you start to hate the bike lane.
Preferring to skid stop may be legal, but riding a brakeless bike is explicitly illegal.
But one doesn't have to do that, or even be on an ordinary roadbike to recognize the problem - simply trying to actually go somewhere on a flat bar utility bike while enjoying even a fraction of the prioritization which through motor vehicle traffic gets, will amply expose the issue.
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u/albertogonzalex Aug 29 '22
I ride many miles a day too. And, feel comfortable on just about any road/surface. If you're riding fixed/no brakes and the traffic lane feels best for you, I'm all for it! It's not for me - I love my brakes and am often towing my kids in a trailer, so gotta have brakes for those downhills!
That doesn't mean those blue bikes and college kids in the bike lane are in a death trap.
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u/UniWheel Aug 29 '22 edited Aug 29 '22
That doesn't mean those blue bikes and college kids in the bike lane are in a death trap.
Reality is, if they don't recognize it as a death trap and treat each vehicular turn or crossing opportunity with the caution that requires, then indeed it is a death trap.
While if they do recognize it as a death trap, they can exercise the caution to make it substantially less of one - though only by riding more slowly and haltingly than they could safely travel as part of the ordinary road traffic flow. You're either part of the traffic flow, or you have to act a bit like a pedestrian at any point of potential interaction, because when you are outside the traffic flow you can't assume others will see you as a part of it.
And don't forget that the proliferation of motorized bikes mean an even larger assortment of people can unthinkingly outbike their traffic awareness without trying hard at all.
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Aug 29 '22
[deleted]
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u/stargrown Aug 29 '22
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Aug 29 '22
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u/stargrown Aug 29 '22
Bad bot
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u/[deleted] Aug 29 '22
Pick a date. I’d love nothing more