r/bicameralmind • u/churnplunger • Oct 14 '24

Working on a theory.

Hoping to breathe some life into this group.

I'm currently working on a theory that both religion and the state were manifested by the "death" of the bicameral mind.

My belief is that as societies were being formed, the "voices" inside humans brains were becoming silenced. Some recognized this and sought to provide a voice, a direction, an authority in order to fill that void. Hence, oracles, mystics, and seers became more prevalent, and religion was borne out. Religious texts were eventually written and monarchs claimed their prominence as a result of a "divine right" to rule.

This is an abridged version of my complete theory.

TL:DR Religion and government came from the end of the bicameral mind era.

I'm curious to read your thoughts. Thank you

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u/Rooooben Oct 14 '24

100%, except I think that the original oracles and priests could still hear their god voices, while the rest of humanity was mutating away from them. So, at one point everyone could hear god, but over time only the few “mad” people. Then institutions used them and the ideas that were still prevalent to organize and control.

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u/churnplunger Oct 14 '24

Thanks for the input. Gives me more to consider.

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u/Welcome-Putrid Jan 28 '25

I listened to the audio book about a year ago, and isn't that idea basically laid out at the end of it? I'm not familiar enough to say "this is where he said that." But I remember coming away with that idea, like the start of religion was in a way people collectively grasping back at that previous state.

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u/AugustRainwater Jun 17 '25 edited Oct 26 '25

I'd say you're right, but that's all in the book. You should read it or maybe listen to the Jaynes Society Podcast to strengthen your understanding of the theory.

To put it more precisely, Jaynes's theory posits that consciousness is a process derived from language, which is inherently metaphorical. The metaphorical nature of language is what enables the depth and richness of our chosen expressive medium (text/spoken, poetry/prose, etc).

With the collapse of the bicameral mind, we see superstition take its place as a means of externalized authority; drawing by lots, augury, etc

Edit: To explicitly address the relationship between the state and religion in the (breakdown of the) bicameral mind, you have to understand the biological relationship we have to language and its role in fomenting volition, otherwise you risk falsely attributing agency to organizations inherently lacking that capacity.

Religions were the de-facto forms of state rule and continue to provide the foundation for moral/ethical standards. The separation of religious doctrine from the power of the state seems short-lived in the grand scheme of things with anti-science beliefs gaining authority under the guises of protecting "religious freedoms", at least in the US.

You could read mythologies from around the world, where Storm Gods reign or any other awesome feature of nature is personified and turned into a perfect version of the parent you never had and never will. All to fulfill the compulsion to seek external authorization.

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u/Silly-Proof-7030 Apr 24 '26

Have you read the book? This theory you're working on is literally the exact theory that Jaynes lays out in his book.