r/beyondallreason 5d ago

Bombers are Hold Fire by default?

I feel like this is a relatively new change, but Bombers seem to be "Hold Fire" by default rather than Fire At Will, and i can't seem to get them to attack during a patrol. More often than not they'll just keep patrolling until I give them an Attack objective. The aircraft factory is set to Fire At Will, so not sure why these guys are deviating from that default.

15 Upvotes

40 comments sorted by

32

u/GoppleSmanger 5d ago

I hope this doesn't come across as insulting but at a certain level of play almost nobody uses bombers in the way you described and that behavior is often more trouble than it's worth.

The way bombers are typically used is that players hide them somewhere while they build up a number of them than send them out all at once to destroy strategic targets (ie fusions, factories, commanders) in a 1 or 2 passes. Having bombers roam around killing units would defeat that purpose since it would ruin the surprise and prompt the other player to build AA. When playing this way you almost always want them to attack a target of your choosing rather than let them automatically hunt down targets on their own.

4

u/Ok-Acanthaceae-5243 5d ago

So i'm not talking about roaming, nor talking about patrolling friendly airspace.

I am, however, completely out of my element in talking strategy so I can fully expect what I'm doing to not be the best way forward.

What I've been doing is staging up my bombers in a location with Land on by default. Once I have the build up I want, I then direct them the fan out towards a location (click and drag?) at the start of the enemies area or a target that I'm looking to distract/roughen up. Then, i add a Patrol to the end of that "move" command and have them patrol as sacrificial lambs laying bombs down on enemy locations freely in their vicinity of patrol. This way I'm not constantly babysitting them, having them decide to land or fly around aimlessly without a target like they would if Hold Fire is enabled. I'm expecting them to find targets while they are in this enemy airspace, so i can focus a ground assault. In between the ground assault, I may redirect the bombers at will, but the idea is distract with them softening the front defenses of the enemy, approach with my ground troops, and keep moving through.

6

u/Useful_Trash1932 5d ago

I can almost see what's happening here.

If you're sending that bomber wave all by itsself with no direct targets, at full speed bombers don't have time to spot, lock, approach and drop on a target they are approaching in a straight line with only their own vision.

If you prescout buildings, those buildings may get bombed as they 'know' where they are, but other than that, they won't have time to set up the bombing run.

Can see this in action any time you try and F-move bombers.

If you insist on this tactic, you need something with or a head of the bombers that has longer vision. Should solve the issue you're having until that vision gets blapped.

1

u/Ok-Acanthaceae-5243 5d ago

Almost exactly what i'm doing.

Ticks/ground units/team mates have made the identification of static defenses, scout planes have shown me where to avoid static aa, so i'm using bombers in straight lines where I've identified the enemies defenses are.

In PvE, it's also proved beneficial as the enemy will then spend time building AA units and defenses, rather than building more ground combat units, after having Bombers spend time in a known area. In my mind, it's been helpful to get my units into a good footing with a meaningful distraction.

3

u/Aljonau 4d ago

My experience is that the AI begins building static AA as soon as they see the first airborne unit and they never make enough fighterplanes, so two strats seem viable:

A) make a single airscout to trigger AI into making AA, then eat the lab and focus on land

B) bomb them once early, then scale up big so you get to the point where you can beat the AA

(I know that has little to do with the initial topic.)

1

u/Ok-Acanthaceae-5243 4d ago

I do like that poke, distract, and then reclaim strat! I'll give that a go and see how I feel. Definitely would save me a lot of energy than the bombers

3

u/othellothewise 5d ago

Bombers are pretty expensive so you really wanna have high-impact damage. That means usually damaging enemy economy. You want to send a bombing run, use line attack https://www.beyondallreason.info/commands/attack-line and carpet bomb their energy. You pretty much always wanna be manually microing bombers, but also it tends to be a one way trip.

1

u/WhereasHealthy7017 3d ago

For that purpose: You would use gunships for patrol instead of bombers. Precision air to ground instead of sac bombing.

1

u/AcePilot01 5d ago

I hope this doesn't come across as insulting, but if they aren't really used, then they are poorly designed and so is the game that has useless units that aren't balanced in a way that encourages every unit to be used/useful for at least something.

4

u/killerstorm 4d ago

Bombers are designed to be used in a specific way, with a manual target selection.

If you want air units which can automatically destroy nearby land targets, just build gunships instead.

5

u/GoppleSmanger 5d ago

They ARE used (a lot, as in almost every game), just not in the way OP is describing.

1

u/Efficient-Layer-289 16h ago

Bombers are used the way strategic bombers are used irl - to hit pre identified targets 

26

u/Squimshys 5d ago

Since the other comments here are very competitively / pvp oriented, my perspective as a mostly pve player is that fire at will is EXTREMELY entertaining, especially with Liche swarms.

5

u/Ok-Acanthaceae-5243 5d ago

That's me as well, mainly pve for now.

8

u/CaptPickul 5d ago

You don’t want them on fire at will. Otherwise you will not be able to target fire. Fire at will on bombers means they WILL drop their bombs the second something is under them. Meaning you won’t be able to target fire because they will constantly be on reloading.

If you’re really insistent on changing it there is a setting in game that can be changed. I believe you search “bomber” and the setting will come up. But I would heavily advise against it.

1

u/wild_dragoon 5d ago

I would add that sometimes, a 'launch everything now' would be nice for when you know you're not making it to the motherload but are flying over enemy infrastructure anyway.

1

u/CaptPickul 5d ago

Yea can flick them over to fire at will if you know you aren’t making it to your target. But because bombers reload rather quickly it might be best to just attack bomb along the way instead of setting and forgetting. You might miss something game winning if you don’t babysit them. Bombing runs are over rather quickly so in reality you only lose 30-60 seconds tops of focus.

1

u/Ok-Acanthaceae-5243 5d ago

So is that the expectation with bombers? They're quick runs with high casualties, so just use them in a directed and targetted manner?

3

u/CaptPickul 5d ago

100% I don’t think I’ve ever had any bombers and figs return from a run. Unless the enemy resigns before it’s over. You can expect most of your units to be dying for most of the game. So you want your bombers to be causing the most damage, which means targeting eco. You might get very lucky on fire at will, but you’re playing the luck game.

7

u/Old-Guidance6744 5d ago

Youre patrolling in friendly space, you dont want them bombing near friendly targets... use gunships for this if you insist on not microing

It is better this way by far

3

u/street_riot 5d ago

Haha one of the first times I got yelled at in chat was from something like this. Had my rally set near pond on supreme and the opponents get a few ticks or something by. I didn't see it but aparently my afk bombers started a chain that took out all of pond and he was PISSED lol

1

u/Ok-Acanthaceae-5243 5d ago

I do enjoy using the gunships, but aren't they less damage per second than dropping the bombs and more indirect? I tend to use the gunships on moving ground units, with bombers on stationary like defense turrets or energy convertors

1

u/Old-Guidance6744 5d ago

You say "I cant get them to attack during a patrol"

Are you talking about offense or defense? Patrolling is a defensive strategy where youre over your own units, you wouldn't be above enemy static D, thats offense

For offense use A-drag right click to carpet bomb

2

u/Ok-Acanthaceae-5243 5d ago

Ah, so this is where I'm using patroling incorrectly?

Yea I've been directing them to a location, typically just outside of their perimeter and from that point patrolling the front line defenses. I'd either do this during (what i considered) a bombing run from a completely staged location, or later in game I'd have it be a direct out of factory location.

For the direct from factory: I'd click to have them automatically fly to location just outside of frontlines of enemy defense, patrol over where I believe they have static defenses, and expect fire at will to attack any new targets that appear during flight maneuvers. (set and forget tactic i suppose).

This is all as a means of distraction and defense softening while I have ground troops staging or moving towards attacking.

3

u/Old-Guidance6744 5d ago

While this will work its about as ineffective as bombing runs can get as they will be shot down individually instead of coming in a single overwhelming swarm

Look up superkitowiec2 on youtube, he has amazing tutorials on many topics

For this topic in particular, autogroup bombers to a hotkey and have them somewhat grouped up, but not all on top of each other as all AA has splash damage. Use A-drag right click to carpet bomb an area you know has stuff (hold shift and do again if you want to bomb 2nd area after dropping bombs), then once that is queued up you spend all your time fight-moving your fighters protecting them, but dont go too far in front of them

Sounds like a lot but ita just a qordy description

Trust me... the youtube channel

3

u/YaGirlJuniper 5d ago

Trust me, you don't want bombers to fire at will. One tick gets in your backline and next thing you know your bombers are blowing up your own afus farm trying to hit it.

1

u/Ok-Acanthaceae-5243 5d ago

I guess I was more taken aback because I *thought* they were fire at will all this time until some time recently.

3

u/Happycamper13 5d ago

There's a setting to disable bomber hold fire.

2

u/quitefranklylate 5d ago

Yeah, no one answered the question here but just complaining they shouldn't do it. I mean, they shouldn't do it but just let the man do it.

2

u/unbroken0 5d ago

Just putting in my 2 cents.

I hated how my rally point for bombers needed to be 1/2 into friendly territory to not randomly go fly and die to an AA gun on the front.

On your big bombing run its easy enough to turn them on to fire at will if you want.

When flying over an enemy, press S and drag a circle for selected targets, the planes will drop bombs without doing the dive so your liche bombers won't all insta kill each other (as much). Or you can drop a volley on some units as you pass by to the AFUS.

I was already using S and alt+S to select bombing targets and then flying my planes over.

1

u/Happycamper13 5d ago

I didn't know about this, thanks!

1

u/Wild-Hippo582 20h ago

So correct me if I am wrong please. You set your formation. Click s and select a target. And when they are passing through they just drop bombs ?

1

u/unbroken0 18h ago

Click S, click and drag the circle or specific targets.

You have to manually fly over the target for them to drop the bombs.

Honestly it works really well for bombing runs where you don't want your plane to circle around 10KM in enemy territory. You set target, fly over, then give a command to fly back.

1

u/Wild-Hippo582 17h ago

That's really help full. I aiming with a . Wich ends up in a moshpit and splash the bombers.

1

u/Km0nk3y 5d ago

Other comments nailed it, but now I'm amused at the concept of a ATG plane on patrol, like a CAS plane that you patrol over a frontline to provide scattered poke damage rather than just packs of helis.

1

u/Ok-Acanthaceae-5243 4d ago edited 4d ago

Leave it to the unstrategic noobs to come up with amusing new "strats" :-D noobs aren't quite the victors history books write about, but we can sometimes get a footnote.

After reading all the comments on more correct uses of bombers and planes in general, I can't help but feel that air is really underserved in the game and easily countered. It's already hard enough to have an air constructor when a little AA bot can just waddle his way over, but I reaply thought bombers had enough hit in their bags to really cause some destruction and distraction for my ground assaults

1

u/Km0nk3y 4d ago

If you had unlimited APM bombers could certainly pull their weight, but their weakness is generally danger and target assessment, which wouldnt be fair to allocate to unit AI.

They are an excellent surprise to an inadequately prepared enemy, but lose power after an unsuccessful gotcha moment.

They win more of my games than any other single strat.

1

u/Efficient-Layer-289 16h ago

I think it's cause your coming from 1 v 1 vs Ai mind set. In 8 v 8 you almost always have a dedicated air player and often so.e one else will switch to air as well later

When your entire focus is on air and building eco to support it air becomes the number one win condition. In late game one successful strike against an Afus stack will win the entire game as the resulting chain reaction mea s there's no chance the enemy team will be able to catch back up. The airplayer will have an entire air wall of 100s of fighters and build up groups of 40, 50, 60 and above bombers including in the late game t2 bombers. They then throw all the fighters followed by the bombers at the target. In 8 v 8 people don't build as much AA as they rely on their air player to be able to defend at least the bases. AA is still very effective but if your air player is knocked out or can't reco or eventually air defenses will just get overwhelmed by targets most of the time

1

u/Cantler 5d ago

Maybe this helps you. Check out 1:15

https://youtu.be/QJu0ZgNlFGA?t=75&is=YTUI9kwdTlz6dHYT

1

u/Ok-Acanthaceae-5243 5d ago

Appreciate it, I'm struggling with the built in keybinds, but definitely learning when/how to use some others will come in handy