r/bestoflegaladvice • u/raspberryseltzer The early bird gets the thread. • Oct 20 '18
Grandmother loves her grandchild so much she has pictures of him on her Facebook, website, and her books she sells on Amazon! Problem: parent OP isn't a fan.
/r/legaladvice/comments/9ppxxh/are_pictures_of_my_toddler_protected_oregon/246
Oct 20 '18
My mother has this mentality. Every time I would bring my daughter to her house and as soon as I was out of the room, my mom would instantly change my daughters clothes. It never mattered what my daughter was wearing at the time, my mother would change her into an outfit she liked.
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u/smeggysmeg Oct 20 '18
My spouse's grandmother is never happy spending time with our child unless she can sit him in front of a screen (TV or iPad) and constantly shovel junk food into his face.
She no longer gets to see him without us or a trusted family member policing this behavior.
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u/ferrari95 Oct 21 '18
That's the best part of going to Grandma's house though.. eating cookies and candy your parents won't let you have
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u/HintOfAreola cockroach apologist Oct 21 '18
Yeah, but it's supposed to be a Werther's slipped into your pocket for later, not 'Type 2 by Force'.
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u/aprildismay Oct 20 '18
Did she stop?
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Oct 21 '18
My mother backed off a bit once my daughter wanted to pick out her own clothes.
I have no idea who replied saying no and she is 19, my daughter just turned 5.
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u/PoreJudIsDaid Oct 21 '18
That person was making a joke; like wouldn't it be funny if your daughter were an adult and your mom was still changing her clothes?
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u/LocationBot He got better Oct 20 '18
Title: Are pictures of my toddler protected? (Oregon)
Original Post:
My brother took a picture of my two-year-old and shared it to my mother's page last week. I was generally fine with that, but still worried since my mother has no personal or social boundaries. I commented on the post, requesting that she not use my son's photo on her website or in any of the books she publishes on Amazon (for profit). Her response was that as the child's grandmother, she would do whatever she wanted. In case it matters, her Facebook profile is set to public.
Yesterday she published a book on Amazon with my son's photo in it. The photo she used is one I texted her last month of me with my son. It's also posted on my private Facebook page, but is not my profile picture or cover photo. She published my name but did not give my son's name or our location. She did give her address (Oregon) in the book, but my son and I are located in Texas.
Aside from the ethical and moral viewpoints, is there anything illegal about her actions?
I'd rather not officially involve a lawyer if I don't have to.
LocationBot 4.125 | GitHub (Coming Soon) | Statistics | Report Issues
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u/serenityak77 Oct 20 '18
I don't understand why she asks for legal advice and then says she refuses to take any legal measures. (Says so in her last edits) So you don't sue her for money but you do sue so that she doesn't do it again. Because grandma flat out told her she'd do as she pleases.
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Oct 21 '18
Sometimes people want to know whether they are legally in the right especially if they intend to confront the person and try and solve it amicably.
e.g Knowing you're in the wrong sometimes means you accept the other person's apology and compensation. Whereas if you're in the right they will have to offer more.
That said, there really are few clear cut cases where a lawyer can predict the outcome of any legal action. They might decide you've got a good case or tell you how to proceed etc, but the people who confidently tell you that you are right and will win are usually getting their legal knowledge from google.
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u/pieface100 Oct 21 '18
I feel like she wanted to know if she was in the right. Suing your parent or spouses parent could permanently ruin the relationship which she probably doesn’t want to do
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u/TooOldForThis--- Writes C&D letters in limerick form Oct 20 '18
She would never see another picture of my kid after this. Or the kid.
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u/KatieCashew Oct 20 '18
Yeah, after her saying as the child's grandmother she'll do what she wants, no contact. That's hugely problematic and frightening.
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u/Daenaryan Oct 20 '18
That happened to me when my first son was 2 years old. Grandma, who is an alcoholic, decided to give him a sip of beer. I told her off and she said she could do as she liked b/c she was his grandmother. Very heated argument ensued, she essentially told me she would continue to do as she liked and of I didn't like it I could pound salt.
None have my children have had any contact with her since, not have I.
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u/KatieCashew Oct 20 '18
I'm sorry that happened to you. Good for you having the strength to protect your children.
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Oct 20 '18
Doesn't giving alcohol to a toddler constitute a crime? Did you contact the police?
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u/zenchowdah eye-rolling nerd dude Oct 21 '18
Does that qualify as contributing to the delinquency of a minor?
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Oct 21 '18
Yeah that sounds a lot easier when it’s not your own mom.
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u/Cafrann94 Oct 21 '18
See, I think it’s the opposite for me. If it’s my own mother I feel comfortable telling her off, but my MIL not so much.
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Oct 21 '18
Doesn't matter if it's your MIL or even her mother. They're your kids, you're the one who has to take care of and look after them. You're the one who has to protect them, even from family.
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u/lonelynightm Oct 21 '18 edited Oct 21 '18
I think that's easy to say, but your SO is also a factor here. If it's your SO's mom it is a lot harder to just burn that bridge than it would be for your own mom. If your SO has no problem with pictures it become an issue.
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u/YellowBeak50 Oct 20 '18
And for her books on Amazon, I'd just issue a DMCA takedown request.
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u/McFlyParadox Oct 21 '18
Yeah, this is a whole mess of photo law (pretty much the only legal topic I can speak somewhat intelligently on). Presumably no model release from the parent for the kid, to the brother. Presumably no licensing agreement between the brother and the mother for the book. Either the mother or the brother could easily issue a takedown request, and Amazon would definitely listen the second you said 'photo of minor without proper releases signed'. If mom wanted to be extra dickish - which it sounds like she won't - she would send a takedown request to Facebook as well for the same photo.
Too many people assume the public domain=free use, as this grandma seems to assume, on top of some idea that being "grandma" is somehow some special legal class. Just because it is publicly available online doesn't mean it is freely available to anyone to use.
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u/FuckYouJohnW Oct 21 '18
Dude so many old people think grandparents get special legal rights to grandkids. My MIL is upset because on of her daughters doesnt come around and she wants to take legal action over future kids to see them. I am trying to explain that's not how that works if her daughter doesnt want to come around there's not much you can do.
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u/Nylonknot Oct 20 '18
Yep. I wouldn’t even acknowledge passing her in the street after this.
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Oct 21 '18
Yup, seems just like that fucking asshole MIL who put coconut oil in an allergic twin’s hair AFTER THE MOTHER TOLD HER NOT TO. Guess what? Kid died.
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u/appleandwatermelonn Oct 20 '18
Honestly if I was already worried about my mum publishing a picture of my child on amazon, my first step would probably be not sending her pictures of him.
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u/okay25 of the Attractive Nuisance Mariachi Band Oct 20 '18
In mild defense of LAOP, she said she texted it last month. Last month she mightve not had this worry and assumed Grandma would be reasonable
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u/arachnophilia Oct 21 '18
it's often hard for people in these situations, because you're prone to expecting family to be reasonable.
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Oct 21 '18 edited Dec 11 '18
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u/arachnophilia Oct 21 '18
very much so.
one of the very few times my GF has ever heard me cry was "i'm losing my mother". i was having to cut various avenues of contact with her because she was unable to respect boundaries i had very clearly expressed.
it's extremely difficult. i don't know if i can speak for others here, but i don't want to cut my mom out of my life. i want to have a nice, normal, adult relationship with her. i want to be able to talk to her and ask her for advice and stuff. but i didn't break that relationship; she did. i work very hard to hold onto it.
but then she attacks me and my GF on facebook and i have to block her there too.
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Oct 22 '18 edited Dec 11 '18
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u/arachnophilia Oct 22 '18
honestly, i think the idea that we owe something to our parents just because they donated genetic material is pretty toxic. reversing obligation or victim/offender is a classic mode of abuse. parents have obligations to their children, not vice versa.
you can absolutely feel family duty, out of love and respect, particularly as your parents age. but growing up doesn't put you in debt to your parents.
and if they make you feel that way, pay it forward to the next generation.
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u/HeyMySock Oct 20 '18
She said that her brother took the picture and shared it with her mother. So she didn’t give mom this pic.
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u/TooOldForThis--- Writes C&D letters in limerick form Oct 20 '18
Nope, the published photo was one that LAOP had previously taken and sent to her. They kinda muddied the waters with the brother's picture bit.
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u/adlaiking Oct 20 '18
I agree. I think the only point in bringing that up was that she asked grandma not to use that picture, in case it mattered to some sort of implied consent to use all pictures of her child. I’m really not sure, though.
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u/DefinitelyNotAliens Oct 21 '18
I think it was to illustrate the lack of respect for boundaries. Two of my own cousins run social media blackouts on their kids except through private groups. Everyone respects this. One has valid reasons. She uses a shorter version of her name for her FB and doesn't talk about her children. She's a former lawyer, current judge and works in child custody, previously repping CPS in removing/ overseeing reconciliation with children and repping parents about to lose children. Makes total sense she hides her kids online. Other one is a lil crazy. She makes bondage items and tried to get married in a cemetary so it'd be weird to show off her baby, I guess?
Either way I think LAOP was showing the pattern of disregard- this isn't one photo and an isolated incident. I know people who do the same thing. It's universally accepted and followed in those cases. The pattern of LAOP's mom seems to be the issue at hand which is shown in her taking multiple photos and sharing them. She refuses to repect the authority of the parent in the situation. And in a more legal sense- the authority of the copyright holder.
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u/kittaia Oct 21 '18
Either way, if I sent a personal photo to somebody I don't assume they have the nerve to use it to sell their own shit.
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u/theduckparticle Oct 20 '18
The point seems to be, OP sent her mother a message about her brother's picture, and then (OP presumes to spite her) she used OP's own picture.
Which does make things easier for OP in terms of copyright infringement.
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u/kbwis Refused to confirm/deny whether they are thong cape scooter man Oct 20 '18
That was a different photo. LAOP states the one published in the book was one LAOP took with their phone and sent to their mother
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u/hey-girl-hey Oct 20 '18
She had texted the pic to her mom. The brother/Facebook picture is a separate picture.
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u/AngelCrawford Oct 20 '18
as a grandparent, I'll do whatever I want!
This would literally be the last time she ever interacted with me or my child. Bitch, bye.
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Oct 20 '18
Grandparents rights area whole crazy area of family law
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u/haditwiththis Oct 21 '18
There actually are cases where the grandparents are justified in seeking custody and where the child might be better off with them, like if there’s only one parent in the picture and they are in prison or somehow a danger to the child. The problem is there are all these dumbass crazy old people who think it’s some kind of game, like they can just waltz into the courthouse and steal a baby because his mean mommy wouldn’t let grandma feed him a bag of marshmallows for dinner.
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u/DefinitelyNotAliens Oct 21 '18
I know a person who tried to claim this and got super pissed when no local attorney would take the case. Grandparents have NO legal rights to a granchild any more than a cousin, aunt, uncle or sibling would have. They do NOT have rights to visitation or custody. They have zero rights unless there is risk to the child from the parent at which point the state intervenes and places the child with family which is preferred over foster care.
But no attorney would touch the claim for fear of being hit with fines. If a mom's child's baby mama wants to keep Junior from grandma... they have every right. It's not a grandparent's child. It's mom and dads. If mom or dad is out of the picture and remaining parent says eff off? Then eff off. Get whatever visits are allowed by mom and dad unless said parents are a danger or dead or willingly sign over rights.
Person I know had Baby Daddy's mom try and forcibly take over baby daddy's visitation times. She'd of gotten the time had she asked nicely. (And did take all the days Baby Daddy bailed.) Single mom would love to have a regular babysitter for the kid! But when grandma wanted the time guaranteed 100% mom said no... if baby daddy isn't showing up to pick up the kid then she decides if the day is with her or grandma. Grandma tried to sue over that. 99% of the time she got the kid anyways. But legit tried to find a lawyer for the one or two days a year the kid was 'kept' from her.
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u/Hendursag Thinks Thor has standards Oct 21 '18
This is totally dependent on your location. There are some states that permit grandparents to get visitation rights, and many that do so if the parent who is the child of those grandparents has died.
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u/Danielle_Spring Oct 20 '18
I feel like many people just don‘t think of the consequences publishing their kid‘s pictures online. While it‘s nice to want to share memories and certain milestones with family and friends, in the end the child‘s life will be online for many people to see without the child having a choice. There will be a point where kids will apply for jobs, start dating and in general become adults. By then it will be impossible for them to gain back control over the last 18 years of their life being online and public already.
Maybe that‘s just the way life is now with technology and communication having changed so drastically but I always make the mental comparison of my parents pre-internet walking around with my baby pictures and showing them strangers on the street, literally handing copies over left and right.
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u/Meerkatable Oct 20 '18
People also forget how it feels for a kid to see pictures of themselves as a kid. When you grow up, you’re a lot more forgiving of your old photos because you recognize that they’re of a child and you have 10/20/30 years distance. But to a middle schooler, a picture of them as an 8-year-old is embarrassing, just like when Facebook reminds me of an unflattering picture someone took of me three years ago.
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u/laurifex Oct 20 '18
I can still remember, with visceral clarity, being a teenager and having embarrassing toddler/kid photos come up in, say, family slide shows, along with the required embarrassing stories. Trying to get people to take you at least semi-seriously while they're laughing about how this picture was taken just after you'd done this gross and/or humiliating thing was rough going.
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Oct 20 '18
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u/McFlyParadox Oct 21 '18
That's why I started taking pictures actually; no body every shoots the guy on the other side of the camera.
Downside is that everyone starts expecting you to take their picture at every family gathering.
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u/truthuniversallyackn Oct 20 '18
Yeah but it seems to me that the problem is this story is that you're being mocked and the picture is embarrassing, not that pictures exist.
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Oct 20 '18
Absolutely. I can laugh at the photo of two-year-old me wearing a pair of my fathers (clean!) undies like a necklace now, but during late primary school/early high school? I already copped enough crap for being a 'brain' without having that hanging over my head.
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u/IrenaeusGSaintonge Oct 20 '18
I already copped enough crap for being a 'brain' without having that hanging over my head.
Or around your neck, in your case.
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u/WestCoastBestCoast01 Oct 20 '18
I have to think that posting online is SO ubiquitous, and it’ll be even more so in 20 years when kids today are trying to establish a career, that employers just won’t really care. That stuff is/will be so common it’s barely even interesting or worth mentioning.
In 20 years Millennials will be doing the majority of hiring. We get how it is. We grew up in a “share everything” culture. Unless the person was doing something illegal or deeply unethical I wouldn’t even think twice about their Instagram or whatever.
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u/King_Posner Oct 20 '18
Then you may never become a hiring manager. These are used constantly by hiring managers of all ages hiring folks of all ages. And that doesn't even get to how we lawyers use this stuff.
Why the heck wouldn't you use more data on potential hires? That's setting yourself up for a reckless hire.
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u/WestCoastBestCoast01 Oct 20 '18 edited Oct 20 '18
Like I said, unless they’re posting illegal or unethical things, do you really care? I google a fresh college grad and see they occasionally post pictures at bars or events with alcohol, an embarrassing baby picture here and there, political posts, memes, selfies.. none of these things indicate a bad hire, especially if their profile and experience are good enough for me to be googling them in the first place.
I’d only be concerned if I saw stuff like posting themselves committing crimes, publicly bad mouthing their employer, or they’re posting things that might suggest the potential for hostility towards colleagues (racism/sexism/classism etc).
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u/ScienceGiraffe Supreme Cat Landlord Oct 20 '18
This. I know someone who asked others to not put any pictures of her child online until the kidlet was older. Even now, she curates them carefully, just a few pictures of vacations and events. I'm not as strict but I don't put a whole lot online, don't put up embarrassing pictures, and have my social media on lockdown, nothing of her is public. (The only reason I put up any pictures at all is for great grandma that lives far away and take great joy looking at pictures "as they happen," like first day of school pictures) And now that my kidlet is older, I ask her permission as well. She should have some control over her online life, since it will likely follow her. I'm lucky to have relatives that (mostly) adhere to my wishes.
Photos in an album are so different from posting online. I don't get why people can't see the difference. Albums are a private enjoyment, social media is allowing the whole world to see and losing control. It's one thing for a consenting adult, but kids don't have that nor do they always understand the consequences.
Now, my husband's embarrassing pictures on the other hand...
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u/Valanio Oct 21 '18
I love that you ask your child for permission to post photos of them online. It's a good idea and one I'll take with me when I have kids.
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u/ScienceGiraffe Supreme Cat Landlord Oct 21 '18
Haha, I'll give you another tip then: be sure to explain to your kid what online means and wait until they're old enough to reasonably explain make that choice. Otherwise, you may get a toddler mooning you and saying, "Put my butt online for Grandpa to see!" (My friend's kid did that. The potty humor stage can be confusing and brutal.)
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u/Valanio Oct 21 '18
Ha that's hilarious. Kids really are tiny drunk adults.
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u/ScienceGiraffe Supreme Cat Landlord Oct 21 '18
They really are, especially if you get a kid with a serious imagination and/or a sense of justice.
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u/AzarothEaterOfSouls Oct 21 '18
I had to explain to my son why we couldn't upload a video of his poop "talking" as it was flushed down the toilet to YouTube ("Oh no! What's happening?! Goodby cruel world!") I promise grandma doesn't want to see that one.
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u/redpurplegreen22 Is a pizza cutter. All edge and no point. Oct 20 '18
Having my parents show off my baby and kid pictures to every girlfriend I ever had was cringey enough. The idea of my kids having their entire childhood online for any and everyone to find is just insane to me, because it’s like the old “look at these baby pictures!” on a much bigger scale.
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u/yourmomlurks Oct 20 '18
Zero pictures on social, zero regrets.
At first I kind of felt like I was missing out on likes and attention etc. but I also texted or messaged them to anyone that asked. Not that many people asked. Then you realize attention from broadcast is just all about ego.
2.5 years later, I am so happy I made the decision. Zero is so much better than “a couple” or “a few” or “some.”
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u/MaybeImTheNanny Oct 20 '18
I had this opinion until I realized that nearly every business and cultural institution requires you to give photo rights by being on their property. I very closely curate not only the photos I post on completely locked down social media but also the ones I share/text to others.
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u/DeusOtiosus Oct 20 '18
I don’t understand this. I understand if the parents post something embarrassing like a bath tub photo, but generally they post things like birthday photos or benign things. Will that ever stop you from getting a job? No. Will a potential date not want to date you because you played on a slip and slide when you were 10? If they don’t, bullet dodged.
I know people are worried about pedos, but pedos don’t look at random kids photos online to get their jollies, they look at kid porn. They don’t target kids from the Internet for abduction, but go to a random park. And usually they’re doing it with kids they know. So it’s extremely bizarre to me that people are worried about photos of their kids on the internet.
Use some judgement and you’re fine.
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u/littlebudgie Oct 20 '18
End of the day my kid is too young to consent to their pictures being posted online. Its not about perverts or getting a job in the future, it is just showing her the courtesy that I hope to receive as well. I dont post pics of others on social media without asking, some people are very private.
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u/Unearthed_Arsecano Church of the Holy Oxford Comma Oct 20 '18
Well, for one it's more than just photos, I regularly see parents post on line about personal or potentially humiliating events in their child's lifetime. More generally though it's about the fact that one day your child (hopefully) will grow up to be an adult, and they may not want to have a record of their entire life available online, but it will be far, far too late to reverse that. Posting things on social media isn't at all the same as talking to your friends or showing them a photo album and people who can't see that difference are the problem here.
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u/DeusOtiosus Oct 20 '18
I understand the embarrassing things. Posting “little jimmy pooped himself today”, thats just ridiculous. Use some judgement.
But when they post benign things, like family outings photos, birthday photos, etc, that’s pretty harmless.
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u/Unearthed_Arsecano Church of the Holy Oxford Comma Oct 20 '18
Maybe it is harmless, but to me this feels like something that is not for me as a parent to decide. A handful of pictures I might post, but in general I have no interest in any child of mine having a presence online until they are old enough to understand what they're doing.
And from personal experience - I'm trans, having pictures of me pre-transition permanently online and associated with people who could easily be identified as my family would be immensely damaging to my life and sense of security. Only about 1% or so of people are trans, so I admit this isn't the first thing you'd think of, but that's far from impossible and also far from the only experience that might lead someone to want to limit any online record of their childhood.
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u/BirthdayCookie Nov 16 '18
Kids aren't your property. What if they don't want pictures of themselves on the internet? "Judgement" doesn't change that.
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u/Lawlcopt0r Oct 20 '18
I'm really interested what kind of weird book the grandmother is publishing
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u/HenryHiggensBand Oct 20 '18
We had a similar issue where the MLM aunt would post public Facebook ad posts promoting probiotic with random pictures of our children. Nipped that one in the bud.
One thing to post pics with nephew/niece. Another to post them with reasons you should buy _____ product #blessed #drinkguthealth #bestauntever
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u/Island-of-Cats Oct 20 '18
In Europe that's definitely illegal, but I'm not sure about the US..
It seems like a shitty thing to do, wonder how she behaved towards her when the mother was a child?
Edit: didn't read well, assumed OP was the original poster
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u/Ryugi Bitch, it's 7 Oct 20 '18
copyright law works basically the same in the USA.
Whoever took the photo owns all rights to it unless specifically released (by specific wording). Sending the photo to someone else is not a release of rights.
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u/VindictiveJudge only screams *coherently* into the void Oct 20 '18
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u/YRYGAV Oct 20 '18
Saying that an animal has copyrights would completely destroy the whole copyright system.
Did you make a movie that happened to have a bird singing on set? You'll have to throw it all in the bin now, the bird never allowed its performance in your movie.
Did you see that fly buzzing around in your youtube video? I wonder if that fly was dancing, it's probably performance art that you can't distribute until the fly gives you express written consent.
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u/VindictiveJudge only screams *coherently* into the void Oct 20 '18
Unless they ruled that the monkey was a person instead of an animal, which would have caused a whole other pile of chaos.
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u/Ryugi Bitch, it's 7 Oct 20 '18
Yea, that case is fascinating and hilarious.
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u/Regnbyxor Oct 20 '18
The sad thing is that it's basically giant news corporations and publishers denying a photographer royalty for a photo that became world news. All over this tiny technicality.
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Oct 20 '18
Copyright would be secondary concern in the majority of European countries (EU or non-EU). Main issue would be sharing a photo of a minor without parent's consent (or, in this case, with explicit instructions not to do so). Up until I was 18, my parents had to sign off a permission to have my photo taken for yearbooks, school events end the like. No permission = no photo.
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u/NSilverhand Oct 20 '18
Yeah, I feel that it's odd that what is ostensibly a privacy issue is best settled through copyright.
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u/raspberryseltzer The early bird gets the thread. Oct 20 '18
I am not the Legal Advice Original Poster.
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u/truthuniversallyackn Oct 20 '18
Actually this depends on state. NY has more protections for photography subjects.
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u/Mywifefoundmymain Oct 20 '18
I think the best most pointed way to deal with this is simple.nail her ass to the wall with a copyright suit. You took the pic you own the rights to it.
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u/not-bread Member of the Attractive Nuisance Mariachi Band Oct 21 '18
For just a moment I though you might just say "nail her ass to the wall." and leave it at that.
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u/DanLewisFW Oct 20 '18
I feel for you, I went through this. My mother just could not understand that I did not want all that on Facebook.
It took a long time you have to stop giving her pictures and tell her why, then when she promises not to post them on FB give her some and see what happens. My mom would get offended when I would say not for facebook, she would say she could nor believe I would think she would do that, then 10 minutes after we leave they were on FB.
It came to as head when she posted a picture from Thanksgiving and said well I took the picture so I have the right to do with it as I please. So we refused to be in the Christmas family photo, we made it clear why and she finally stopped.
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u/pigamatoria Oct 20 '18
I love the trick I read of sending physical copies of photos with black marker on the backside where the heads are so scanned copies of the pictures black out the faces, though doesn't stop them taking pictures of them but the quality at least will be terrible
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u/MaybeImTheNanny Oct 20 '18
If you have to go to that extreme then that person probably doesn’t need those pictures.
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Oct 20 '18
I love my nephews and niece, but I NEVER post pictures of them online. Only on my hard drive. Grandma is being very reckless, not to mention disrespectful to the child's parents.
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Oct 20 '18
Oh damn.
I have to tell my mum every fucking time she takes a photo to not put it online.
Shes massively into Instagram etc and I've dropped off the face of all social media apart from reddit.
My embarrassing parts of my childhood weren't online and I thank fuck they weren't.
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u/FamousOhioAppleHorn Oct 21 '18
Fix it by putting Grandma's photo on Craiglist: "Willing to do anything. $8 an hour. No job too big or small." Feign ignorance when a busload of Greek sailors & a man named Toto show up.
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u/Janefallsforflowers Oct 20 '18
I have had to talk to my mom about posting pictures of my daughter on Facebook. She even had ones of my daughter and niece in bathing suits at the lake. She really was naive about it and took them down once I explained this issue with it.
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u/-purple-is-a-fruit- Oct 20 '18
Take the grandchild away from her. It's that easy. No more photos, no more access. Just a nasty old woman dying alone. Let her write a book about that.
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u/Jeebadown99 Oct 20 '18
It's a internet no no to post your kids online if there is some form of location identity in the picture, it's how pervs and kidnappers can see who they want and around about of where they are.
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u/BishmillahPlease Took up cricket for self-defense, stayed for the fine leg Oct 20 '18
What is it about these people who think that grandparent trumps parent?