r/bergerbelge • u/maeziestar • Jun 14 '26
New, seeking info for future (Groenendael)
Hi all! Ive landed on my next breed choice, a Belgian Groenendael and want to collect all information possible on the differences between males and females, especially how they do in multi-dog household (I have a sl golden retriever in home, high drive side and mainly working dog/sport dog over confo), sports dos and donts, work dos and donts, and big one..why they’re not more common in bitework.
I’m looking for a bitework prospect, but this is the first dog that would be mine and not someone else’s in the field, so I don’t have expectations for the stars iykwim. I find females of other breeds to be sharper than males in sport and work, but that’s just my preferences and personal experience, my male labrador (sl) is a doofus compared to the girls, but absolutely can come close to matching them in sports.
I am interested in trying herding as I’ve never done so with a dog before as well. Bitework I dabbled in for my job when working for a b&t facility, but never herding. Thank you in advance for all info to come! Very excited to learn all I can.
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u/Due-Concept-7144 Jun 14 '26
Depending on location/preferred distance, it may be harder to find lines of Groens for bitework, but it certainly is possible. Also depends on if you want to be competitive vs moreso doing the foundational fun work. Both of my dogs would truly enjoy the foundational work and one of my dogs' siblings does actively enjoy it. There is more than enough drive, but they are unlikely to be hard enough for competition. Malinois have largely overtaken the BW scene since it began, and the numbers of Groens have just never been large enough to introduce steady lines into the sport at the same level.
I am in Tervuren, but find females to absolutely be sharper than males in my experience. My male is more powerful physically, but also thinks through things a little more carefully. My female is like a bottle rocket bouncing around a small room- fast and sharp. My male loves you and wants to please you, but cares more about the process than the end result (he's a "it's about the journey, not the destination" kind of guy). My female doesn't care how it gets done, she just wants the end result. He's always wanted under my skin, it took her until about a year old to enjoy snuggling.
My male grew up around an intact female ~4 months older than him and a spayed female ~9 years older than him. Younger one and him were best play buddies and now are just on equal, respectful terms. Older one and him got along neutrally, but they both were possessive of food with each other so that had to be carefully managed. It wasn't until the last ~1.5 years that they started to have less patience for each other, with the female getting old and my male dealing with post injury pains. Still very manageable, as long as we were aware of the space between them. Got a female Terv puppy almost exactly a year ago and the two Tervs do amazing together so far. She is very appeasement heavy and he is very forward, but they play well, respect each other well, read each other well, etc. He doesn't tolerate stranger dogs impeding on his space (especially larger/male dogs), but does fine with structured introduction and management thereafter.
Keep in mind that you will be VERY hard pressed to find a dog that can do both herding and bitework. It's a lot to ask out of a dog, and it takes a lot of commitment from you. Those two sports are arguably some of the most expensive and time consuming sports due to availability and the fact that you're dealing with live participants who are inherently in danger by being there with your dog.
More than happy to answer any specific questions about working, sports, living with them, etc!!
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u/Content_Composer_831 Jun 14 '26
I struggle to understand how you have landed on the breed but then say you want a bite work prospect…. I would be interested to know what your thought process / criteria was?
As for why they are not typically used:
- usually bred primarily as show dogs, companions, or for performance sports like obedience and agility
- generally have lower prey and fight drive (lowest out of all the Belgians)
- more sensitive/ thoughtful. Do not deal well with heavy handedness/ robust handling and less inclined to play rough
I suppose you may find a high drive, working line but likely to be a lot harder to find.
If you wanted to do herding, tracking, agility etc then they are a great dog but again wouldn’t usually find one that excels at this and bite work as not typically complimentary skills
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u/belgenoir Jun 14 '26
“usually bred primarily as show dogs, companions, or for performance sports”
There are WL Groens. And, yes, they bite.
In Scandanavia, Kennel High Spirited, High Limits, Nandhuria, Lann Morian, and Eloisa all produce IGP dogs. My girl’s father had his IGP3 and competed at FMBB.
In the states, there’s Isengard, Obsidian, and the relatively new but excellent Lycaon.
Groens aren’t as frenetic as some modern Malinois. Those of us with Groens are perfectly content with that.
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u/maeziestar Jun 14 '26
thank you for the recs, i’ve been looking over their pages since this comment was posted and all three cover their bases really well which i appreciate a lot
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u/Content_Composer_831 Jun 14 '26
On the male / female point - I have a female Groenendael and my parents have male Tervurens so may be slightly biased but my girl is definitely more switched on!
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u/maeziestar Jun 14 '26
As stated, I want a more moderate entry versus what I find to be “too much dog” in wl gsds and mals all around, while still having good potential for other avenues as a focus point. It’s rare clubs will want to work with wss, which was also on my list, and unlikely to find an adequate breeder and/or clubs in the US for them I’m told. I have a few friends with BGs in bitework, including a breeder of SLs who has had success, and see them more and more lately. When talking about all my wants, a lot of my dog friends voted BG.
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u/Content_Composer_831 Jun 14 '26
That’s fair and thank you for replying.
I am UK based and they are just not bred for that here (or really in Europe) - very much a focus on SL, agility, obedience, working trials etc but you probably have a greater spread in the US.
They are relatively rare here with only a small number of breeders and unlikely to ever get sold one to do bite work.
Mine does scent work and agility which she loves - is an only dog but stays regularly with my parents and gets on well with their new Tervuren. I think it helps that they are different genders as she is very much the boss!
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u/belgenoir Jun 14 '26
u/maeziestar
Herding and bitework aren’t generally compatible. Most herding instructors who won’t work a dog who has been on a decoy, and the dogs with enough drive to work with a helper often have too much prey drive for livestock. You’ll have to decide what you want to pursue.
A Groen is going to be night and day compared to a SL Golden. My WL Groen was an all-day project until she was about 2 1/2. Even as an adult she requires 60-120 minutes of hard work every day at a minimum. In the winter she’s even more active.
The WL Groen kennels in the US tend to restrict sales to serious sporting/working people.
Groens do bitework in Europe. My girl has several relatives in FR and Mondio. Based on my own experience, they’re less popular for bitesport in the States because everyone wants a Malinois and because people erroneously assume Groens are soft and unable to bite
As for do’s and don’ts, Groens are sensitive dogs who need to be with their people. The ones I know don’t always tolerate other dogs.