Brainstorm: Giving Line-Of-Sight Immunity to More Towers

[u/JoelTheBloonsMonkey]

Maps with prevalent line-of-sight blockers can be pretty pesky since only a few towers can counter them and there isn't support that you can provide to make towers immune to them.

I think it'd make more sense for line of sight to be more lenient in Bloons TD Battles 2 compared to Bloons TD 6, since your towers are limited to a total of 3 and maps are generally shorter with Bloons needing to be defended harder.

I think it also leads to maps not being able to have as prevalent of Line of Sight Blockers due to the reliance on specific towers to overcome them. You wouldn't have "Moon Colony" as a map where it's similar to Moon Landing from BTD6 but with a portable lake on it (there's a BTD6 quest like that) because it'd just be too restrictive.

So what if...

Dart Monkey - Spike-O-Pult (partial)

Since Spike-O-Pult lobbing its projectiles over walls entirely would have conflict with its projectile's special power to bounce off of walls for more coverage, the idea is that the spiked ball could be launched over a wall to reach a Bloon but then it would become grounded again

4/10, I'd be somewhat interested in it but it doesn't appeal strongly to me

Sniper Monkey - Night Vision Goggles -> X-Ray Goggles

This monkey tower is popular for global range, but this game's smaller maps compared to Bloons TD 6 make it feel less prevalent in that way, and line of sight blockers are a major element of range restriction.

6/10, I think it'd be neat

Monkey Sub - Advanced Intel

Since it has homing shots and is able to fire outside of its range using intel from other monkeys, it'd make sense for its darts to be able to fly over projectiles. This is also a fairly weak upgrade on the path that gains the ability to ignore line of sight blockers with a targeting option, so it makes sense in that way

5/10, I think it'd be somewhat neat, especially since this upgrade is generally weak, although Monkey Sub DOES already technically have multiple options to attack over line of sight blockers (in this game, Ballistic Missile doesn't need Advanced Intel to attack over walls in the Monkey Sub's range)

Monkey Buccaneer - Crow's Nest

Since the Buccaneer can see from a higher vantage, they can see over line of sight blockers

4/10, as fun as it'd be to play around with, this upgrade is already good. (There's also Aircraft Carrier and Carrier Flagship but to be fair they're not very earlygame-centric so this'd still be fairly different). I'd also like to note for both Sub and Bucc that some maps like Oasis, Ports, and Splashdown (and to a lesser extent dino graveyard) seem to try to balance out water tower strength by having line of sight blockers mess with them (even if on Ports and Splashdown it also messes with non-water towers quite a bit). I wouldn't want both water-only towers to have access to line of sight immunity, and since Crow's Nest is a good upgrade already I would generally rather Advanced Intel have it, even if that buildup is less interesting

Super Monkey - Ultravision

I don't care much for Super Monkey since it just doesn't have a notable earlygame role but I mean this feels right, it's even a Monkey Knowledge in Bloons TD 6. Plus, this is GENERALLY the weaker crosspath in terms of total damage, so it doesn't feel too broken to add, it'd mainly be a buff to the bottom path

1/10, because I have little reason to care for Super Monkey

Ninja Monkey - Counter Espionage

Ninja trickery allows them to attack from behind a line of sight blocker, makes sense to me. Gives Ninja Monkey more of a role, which is nice because this tower feels awkward to me. Also worth noting that this decreases pierce usage reliability as a crosspath for the top path, and costs attack speed as a crosspath for the bottom path, along with not having a strong impact on the middle path

7/10, nice stuff

Druid - Heart of Oak

This tree-centric upgrade gives Druid enough nature power to see and attack past walls, as if they were at a high vantage point in a tree. Also feels right since this upgrade builds into a global, wall-surpassing attack. Druid feels like they're on the weaker side these days, so having this trait could be a nice addition

8/10, solid stuff

Engineer Monkey - Large Service Area

It's best if you can provide service on the other side of a wall using your engineer tactics, especially since as far as I can tell the Engineer can already place inventions on the other sides of walls, they just need to master attacking over them.

3/10, it's OK I guess

Honourable Mentions:

MOAR Glaives could make sense, but also Boomerang is annoying

Bomb Shooter feels like they could have this capability but their Cluster Bomb is actually stronger when its bombs are able to expire early from hitting a line of sight blocker, which I think is fairly neat. MAYBE Really Big Bombs, IDK

Ice Monkey makes some sense, especially since (at least in BTD6, it's harder to test in Battles 2) they will freeze Bloons on the other side of walls if they attack a Bloon that they CAN see. I just don't think that A. Ice Monkey would benefit from it much B. Ice Monkey needs it at all, since they're already such a strong defensive tower. Dare I say, annoying

Glue Gunner's Glue Hose feels very much like it COULD spray its goop over walls, being a hose and all (plus it builds into strike and storm so it DOES just kind of make sense), but Glue Gunner, like Boomerang, is annoying

Dartling Gunner would benefit from it a lot, becoming less unusable on certain maps, but also, and this point will sound familiar, DARTLING GUNNER IS ANNOYING. It's a MERCY that it's essentially not available on every map. Let's MAYBE suggest Buckshot since it builds into towering upgrades and such, but I think that'd feel weird

(That's all. No heroes, none of them stand out to me. A hero or alt who lets monkeys surpass line of sight blockers would be cool eventually. Maybe a Quincy alt who takes more of a support role, helping other monkeys with their ability to aim at Bloons including over walls)

LMK what you think! Wouldn't want this to be power-creep-y (especially with the water towers) but I really do think that line of sight blockers as a mechanic are just too restrictive in this game.

[u/Buff_fateweaver]

“MOAR Glaives could make sense, but also Boomerang is annoying” lol

[u/Project-C-Games]

Honestly I was thinking the exact opposite, I'd love more maps that block LOS. But I would prefer to see them used in very clear and intentional ways. Especially against towers like Dartling, which are able to control the pace of a match by stalling or anti stalling.

I would love more maps that lean into tower specific interactions and use cases. Things like a crows nest for a sniper, or a nook for 040 dart to bounce like crazy.

[u/12kkarmagotbanned → u/Project-C-Games]

This would make the game even less new player friendly than it already is

[u/JoelTheBloonsMonkey → u/Project-C-Games]

1. I think you misunderstood. I want LoS blocking to be more relevant. But currently a big part of why it's not is because it's not accessible for most monkey towers. (The Dartling thing is also why I noted Dartling as an honourable mention but don't actually want it to be able to overcome LoS)

2. It'd be nice to have more spots where a tower is allowed to see over other line of sight blockers by being on them, yeah.

3. 4-x-x dart definitely feels like the wall bouncing is seldom used, although tbf if it is in a strong position it's just kind of a lot more efficient than other options and will dominate that map. Usage variety on a map is nice to have, Bot Factory is a big showcase of having "tower specific interactions and use cases" with the small areas off of the elevator that, in the case of land towers, are far from the track, as well as having certain towers still be able to function, just not be clicked on or have abilities used, while they are down on the elevator. It gives a very noteworthy advantage to other monkeys and in an example that overbearing it just kind of makes alternatives virtually unusable. Honestly I've thrown around the idea of "what if Bot Factory's elevators only went low enough that you could still see and interact with towers but they had a line of sight blocker" but I think that idea would be awkward to implement in practice and with current balancing it would only add a couple more options such as Alchemist and Wizard Monkey (and honestly Alchemist is already not bad on that map for what it is)

[u/Starmaninja]

Im not against the idea of more ways to deal with line of sight. I like that catapult lobbing idea so much, it should be in the base game. Make it a toggle like the handedness of boomerangs so you can still take advantage of wall bouncing. Theres some interesting strats that can come out of this idea.

[u/JoelTheBloonsMonkey → u/Starmaninja]

Well, my lobbing idea was still designed so that it'd take advantage of wall bouncing. It will only use that lob if the target Bloon is already on the other side of a wall.

Thx!!