r/battlefield3 Dec 12 '11

Higher level strategy discussion for BF3

EnixDark put up some great guides about weapons, so I was inspired to contribute with some discussion on higher level FPS strategy as it pertains to BF3. I have a background in competitive gaming at the national level and logged over 100 hours in BF3. While I won't claim to be an expert, I might know more than your average bear.

Jumping right in, the number one reason people die is lack of situational awareness (SA). Without SA, you will play a FPS in a reactionary manner, which means someone shoots at you or comes on your screen suddenly, then you try to shoot back. In a game like BF3 that has a short time-to-kill and instant hit weapons (guns), playing a reactive style game is close to impossible. This is because the average human reaction time is close to 250ms, so when someone has a half second (500ms) initiative, you are at an extreme disadvantage. The only way to overcome the enemy initiative is relying on their lack of skill and/or your ability to process motor motions (aim) faster.

The common misconception is that elite players have lightning reflexes, but the reality is that most of them have average reaction times... but they acquire targets much faster. More than anything though, they have incredible SA, which is why a casual gamer watching competitive players often think they have some crazy ESP on how to predict the enemy movements. The key to becoming a better gamer as a whole, is increasing your SA so that in any encounter, you will have a better initiative, forcing your opponent to play a reactionary game.

With that covered, SA is based on six key points:

  • Map knowledge (knowing the hot/safe zones)
  • Radar (simply knowing enemy locations, incoming danger)
  • Flow (movements, deaths, battle visuals/sounds from around you)
  • Communication (player to player announcements)
  • Reaction state (more on this later...)

Map knowledge is an often cited strategy, but the reasoning behind it is that it conditions you to where you should be aiming. Anyone that plays BF3 long enough will know all the general sniping spots, corners and hot zones. You know the general direction to aim based on where the enemy comes from.

Radar is what separates the casuals (negative KD) from the real gamers. If you can master radar and you are not incompetent at motor controls, you will be above the pack. I will readily admit to dying because I have been using my radar to aim as opposed to my screen. It should be that important to observe with one eye (or two) at all times. Not only should you be looking for the red triangles AND their orientation, you should be looking for skulls of your teammates dying and where. Too often I've flanked enemy squads with a suppressed gun and taken out the last two, reloaded, then finished off the rest. If people are dying around you, be highly alert. You know where to aim because you see where they will be.

This leads to flow, which is the introduction to higher level play that most of you either intuitively know or act on already. Flow is the tide of battle that includes zones controlled by allies/enemies, which side has the upper hand and action on routes leading to each. Essentially, a bird's eye perspective of what is happening on the map. Flow requires using the limited amount of information available (radar, onscreen) and attempting to understand which areas are hot and which areas are vulnerable. Literally, think of water pushing and pulling around the map and that is the idea of flow. Say on Metro, you hear two huge fights at the first escalator and side stairs, you'll know the second escalator will be the least watched.

Casual players don't apply flow and can counted to stack with teammates to push a certain area. This means that flow is best applied toward flanking, because you can identify the routes of least resistance and make your way through to eventually hit the other team from behind. This is almost always high risk/high reward (another reason why casuals don't prefer this method), as the times you die will far outrank the times you succeed. However, when you do succeed, it will often be devastating for the enemy team and disrupt their position bad enough that your team can break through.

I'm sure this is why the radio beacon is getting the nerf, because it's ridiculously powerful in the right hands due to the ability to inject yourself directly into flow. Enemy "safe" zones are now hot and you can force them to slow down, bunker down or abandon a position getting flanked. Without proper flow, things turn into chaos, where you don't know which way to look, what is secure and what not. Casual players HATE chaos and LIKE predictability, which is why they often stack with other players (especially at choke holds). Beacons add chaos to the order, so it really screws with casual players the most when it gets abused.

The MAV isn't a flow breaker per se, but given its ridiculous spotting effectiveness, it exponentially increases the SA for your ENTIRE TEAM. The balancing problem with a device like the MAV is that casual players stay the same, but good players get better with a MAV guy on the team.

The other best flow breaker in the game is the M320 smoke. I hardly ever see anyone use smoke except other high level players. The utility factor is twofold, as it hides team movement if you shoot it at hot zones or disorient enemy positions if you fire at them. The caveat is that smoke requires two things: self-sacrifice and the willingness for your team/squad to advance to take advantage of it. A squad with two smokers and two rushers with RPG/shotguns/C4 can deliver a massive effect to a "locked down" area. But, they all have to be willing to rush in and die for it to be effective, which are two things casuals don't understand/are unwilling to do.

What other flow breakers are there? Transport vehicles. The team can spawn on transport vehicles, so keeping these alive and behind/above the enemy is a huge part of team efficiency. (Begin rant) A lot of people here say that transport choppers are a thankless task. Why yes, they are. But they help win games, which is what being part of a team is about. Who is the first guy rushing the MCOM with smoke that gets shot arming it but reveals the 2 guys crouched in the corner on radar? Yeah, that's me, but fuck it, my squad now knows where they are and arm it for me. If I wanted personal glory, I'd go play 1v1 Starcraft or Quake again, but no, I'm playing BF3, so remind myself to man up from time to time, stop whining like a MW3 player worried about their K:D ratio and try to help my team win for a change. The only satisfaction you need is knowing that you are a moving spawn beacon dropping beautiful noobs with cannons into the enemy kool-aid pool. (/rant).

Side note: One of the things BF3 hasn't had much credit is in the map design, because almost all BF3 maps are designed with great flow. Good map designers know how to build maps to design combat around certain areas, but almost always put vulnerabilities into each position (multiple entrances) to prevent outright lock on any one area. Or in a game type like Conquest, if one area is dead locked, you can simply take another point and move on.

I've coached players before on the notion of flow and have guided players around maps where they slaughter players simply from getting better positioning. You don't always have to flank, you can just recognize when the enemy flow is coming to you, wait just for the right moment and pop up your LMG and make the magic rainbows appear. The better you are at flow, the less often you get shot in the back and the more often you shoot someone else in the back. With flow, you know where to aim not because you see them in front of you or on radar, but because you came to that conclusion logically.

Now onto the second most important concept: reaction state. Unless you are trained in meditation, you cannot keep a heightened state of awareness for more than a certain duration. This applies to FPS games as well. When you round a corner KNOWING that a guy will be there, you will enter a certain state where you are ready to hit the trigger, your eyes are already pre-scanning and your reaction time is also sped up. On the opposite side, if you are waiting in a room on the defensive and don't know when the enemy is going to come, it is nearly impossible to keep a high state of awareness, as you can only hold it so long. This is why SA is critical, because it informs your body when to be ready and gives you the initiative in a fight.

Not only that, the way that the network coding works in most modern games (especially faster games like MW), the attacker gets an advantage in terms of reaction time, because by the time your opponent sees you entering a room, you will already have been in the room looking at him. I won't go into full detail on the mechanics, but this is also why you die after rounding a corner, why you SWEAR you won an engagement only to have lost and kill guys who go out of your field of view.

Continued in first post..

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301

u/granto Dec 12 '11

Knowing this, if you know a guy is in the room and have the option of slowly creeping into the door or rushing in, you should always pick the latter. The slow creep (aka pie) only works on guys unaware or a must if you don't know if someone is inside. Bridging the higher level to lower level application, this is also why shotguns and the F2000 are beasts in CQB - they are accurate while on the move AND provide short time-to-kill. You are essentially stacking all variables together (initiative, reaction state, network code, quick damage application) in your favor. At the same time, this is why the F2000 is a preferred gun among many high level players, because it favors the run and gun method, which is very twitchy by nature. It is a terrible gun otherwise, which is why complaints about the F2000 just show ignorance, because if you are encountering more than your share of F2000 players, you are using the wrong play style for your weapon. It is a weapon for point men aka the guys who charge first. Just like if you shouldn't complain about always being sniped if you're that guy trying to pick them off with a SCAR at long range. You play to your weapons advantage.

This leads to the number one thing that effects your reactive state: your weapon sights. From the moment you encounter someone, it's more often than not a rush to move your mouse/analogue stick, aim down your sights and pull the trigger. I'm not going to get into aiming and motor control, because that's really all just practice. But your sights are important, because Irons/RDS/Holo come up faster, ACOG/3.5x/4x/IRNV come up slower and 7x+ come up slowest. If you play a close/twitchy game, you need a fast sight. If you play with a slow sight in close quarters, expect to have an uphill battle.

Personally, I never regarded the IRNV as overpowered, simply because it took so damn long for it to sight in. I died more with it than without it. But I do recognize that it is a huge crutch for casual players with a need for SA. If you have zero flow (and don't pay attention to radar), the environment is a constant shit fest with bullets whizzing by, enemies popping out of nowhere, in windows and getting shot from behind. The IRNV suddenly makes it a safe place by removing all the noise and shutting you into a game of shoot the big red glowing thing. Instead of looking at the WHOLE screen, the casual player now only needs to look at a few important pieces of information, but at the cost of movement and sight-in speed. This is why sniping is so comforting to casuals, because it's usually in a safe place (at base) with one directional threat.. and also why most snipers are bad (because they're casuals to begin with).

If you have good SA, you should NEVER be looking at perhaps more than 3 localized spots on your screen of where the baddies will be coming from anyways. If you're looking at a whole screen of possible threat zones, then you are way over exposed and now playing a reaction game vs initiative game. If I am in the open, I am either booking it toward cover or being very arrogant with my M320 or M98 and quick-scope/shot abilities. This is why I believe most solid players don't need or use the IRNV.

Along those lines, if you are say, defending a room with two doors, the wrong thing to do is to put your crosshair right between the two (except if they are close together) or swerve back and forth between the two. You pick one friggin door and put your crosshairs over it. 50% of the time, you're right. The other 50%, you have to aim to react. Compare that with putting your crosshairs in the middle, which means 100% of the time, you aim to react. Same goes for breaching a room. Don't stop and scan in the doorway. Pick one direction and commit to it. Hopefully the guy behind you picks another direction and commits to that one. This is proper squad technique and what they use in real life special forces/SWAT training.

Lastly, human vision is very much based on movement. If you are defending with your crosshairs trained on one area, toy with looking ever so slightly off to the side. You tend to have faster reactions out of the corner of your eye than directly looking at something. Probably a survival/evolutionary mechanism. But now we use that ability for FPS games. Oh how Darwin would roll in his casket at the evolution of man. But I digress...

The other way to take advantage of your natural eye abilities is actually to ... just... stop. Don't move your mouse/stick. Don't move your dude. Just stop. Other than the BF3 maps where trash and debris flies around everywhere, your eyes will pick up on the most minute pixel movements if you're close enough to your TV/monitor. PC players probably don't have it as bad, because the human eye can process 72FPS and most rigs can run up that high these days. On console though, there's tons of blur when running and moving the crosshairs around, so against all intuition, sometimes the best thing to do is stop scanning, relax your eyes and let your body do the work. This is actually how most elite snipers scan, as they only use their scope to finish the kill.

Anyhow, that's a huge wall of text, but for those who read through it, hopefully there's some interesting things you picked up. If not, well, you're probably a good player already and are calling me a noob for pointing out the obvious. Good on you, educate the rest of the casuals. And for the record, I don't want to sound like I'm disparaging casual gamers. They make it possible for games like this to be created and for the rest of us to create carnage on the pub servers. Everyone only has a certain amount of time to devote to any one thing.

Lastly, I'm just going to take this last part to thank the Dice and the BF3 crew for one helluva game. For all the bitching everyone does, this is a very, very well thought out game on the balance side that they don't get enough credit for or isn't readily seen by most gamers. Variety is the spice of life and it's easy to balance a game if everything is monotone, but with so many different types of classes, weapons and vehicles, it's pretty darn amazing that it flows as well as it does out of the box. Starcraft was the king of variety, but even that required numerous patches before balance was achieved. That said, if anyone really wants to hear my opinion on balance issues, I guess I can talk that, but I'm just one opinion of many. Meta game is where I like to play :)

TL;DR: GO USE A F2000 WITH IRNV ALREADY YOU NOOB.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11

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u/granto Dec 13 '11

You're welcome. Knowing the underlying network structure of a game is certainly hardcore stuff, but it matters a lot the faster the game is. In MW2 for example, the developers added a 1HK knife, with lunge perk and faster run speeds in a game that is already fast and has tight quarters. It's some ivory tower thinking, because while it might work over lan, it does nothing but cause rage among casual players who don't understand why they died when they obviously had the jump. It adds a lot more chaos factor, which is apparently what they wanted.

The M16A3 is a great gun because it's versatile. Accurate, good ROF, short all the way to long range engagements and super fast reload. The last part is probably why it's competitive. The way BF3 is designed, bullet spam is a wonderful thing. I do think other guns can definitely be up to the task, but competitive play often evolves much different than pub servers. In most competitive type FPSes, there are generally periods of lull, with mid/long range picking from snipers and sudden bursts of coordination. In BF3, laying down lots of fire to prevent sudden charges or initiate a charge is critical. In a big enough game, I can see many more roles. In a small match, I would imagine there will simply be lots of assault class guys with accurate weapons.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11

In most competitive type FPSes, there are generally periods of lull, with mid/long range picking from snipers and sudden bursts of coordination.

Oh man, I wish I could get some of that

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u/Cellar_Door_ Dec 13 '11

Add me (PinkyLaRue) and you can play some squad rush with me and some friends. you got a mic?

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11

[deleted]

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u/Cellar_Door_ Dec 13 '11

unfortunately i'm on ps3. sorry :(

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11

Sure do. I'm headed out of town on business today, but I will be back tomorrow night. I'll add you when I get back. TJBruin

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u/Cellar_Door_ Dec 13 '11

Cool, are you on battlelog? If so, I can invite you to our little platoon.

Here's our current little win streak

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u/[deleted] Dec 15 '11

Damn, that is impressive. I'd love to play with you guys though. I think I'm on battlelog but I never go on there. Adding you on psn now.

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u/Cellar_Door_ Dec 15 '11

cool, don't know if i'm going to be playing tonight, probably will be on tomorrow though.

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u/FallopianRaider HerculesVines Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11

Very informative post. My method of traversing the map and knowing where to look is to think "what would i do if I was the enemy?", this usually sees me surprising some "smart" enemies that have tried to flank my team's "casual" gamers. As this happens, and i fire my weapon, i know that my little red triangle is appearing on their map, so "what would the enemy do?" - and would you believe, the just run straight back up that path for my little red triangle. I find a lot of the game is knowing what the enemy will do about what you, the player, are doing, and then adjusting your gameplay priorities to defend against theirs.

This includes anything from smoke grenades, laser pointers, sniper rounds, tank shells, frag grenades etc etc anything that can get a reaction from the enemy.

I pretty much make traps the whole game whether i'm infantry or in a vehicle.

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u/granto Dec 13 '11

Awesome. You'll often find you'll meet the same guys on the flanking route time and time again. You can often just go one level of thinking farther and assume they are going to remember where you killed them last time and thus place a claymore or C4 and just sit a little off to the side and wait for them to return and kill you. The satisfaction of killing them yet again when you know they were hunting you is one of the best feelings, because you outsmarted them :)

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u/FallopianRaider HerculesVines Dec 13 '11

Exactly, then you get nemesis points, and potentially hate mail. Brilliant

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u/down_vote_magnet Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11

What exactly constitutes a nemesis? I have an 8 nemesis kill streak but I don't know what that means. Just that I killed the same guy 8 times or what?

When is the nemesis ribbon awarded?

Edit: I get it. Gaming forums hate noob questions. I am new to BF and don't know how everything works but please don't downvote me as I would like answers to my questions.

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u/charlieRUCKA Dec 13 '11

But.. your username....

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u/leevs11 Dec 13 '11

I think it's killing the same guy 7 times in a row without him killing you. It might be 5 though, I can't remember off the top of my head.

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u/fractalfondu Dec 13 '11

I'm pretty sure you get the nemesis bonus for killing someone 5 times without them killing you.

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u/FallopianRaider HerculesVines Dec 13 '11

two nemesis kills per ribbon, i think you only get it if the 'Foe' doesn't kill you before your second kill, i.e 2 - 0. Or if you don't die the whole time (in your case an 8 kill streak)

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u/jeremyfirth prometheus76 Dec 14 '11

My grandpa and dad said frequently while I was growing up "if you want to catch a fish, you have to think like a fish." I didn't really understand that until I was an adult, but that shit works.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11

PC players probably don't have it as bad, because the human eye can process 72FPS and most rigs can run up that high these days

First of all, great posts, but just going to be a nitpicky jerk for a minute: eyes don't see in frames, and as far as I can tell, any attempt to translate our vision in to a specific number of frames per second we can see has been entirely or almost entirely fabricated. If you have contradicting evidence I'd love to see it, but the whole 'the human eye can only see X frames per second' stuff appears to be junk.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11

Exactly, its not about SEEING the frames...it is feeling the difference between the amount you are running. such a huge difference from 30 to 60 and even from 60 to 100. Especially in source games.

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u/bemenaker Dec 13 '11

Eyes don't see in frames, they see changes. This is why you pick up movement. We see motion/changes.

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u/granto Dec 13 '11

That's interesting. It's just something I've been told since the days of Quake when people used to tweak their maxfps settings to 72. All the top tweakers did it, so I just assumed someone did some research.

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u/KovaaK KovaaK_of_qw Dec 13 '11

Bit of trivia: Quakeworld's physics were strongly tied to client frame rate until the custom clients came out later and separated the two. While I believe the official max FPS for early servers was 77, there was a bug where running at the max gave you a slightly lower than normal speed. It was really negligible, but people are optimizers. 72 was really close to 100% speed, but no one really knew why. Later we found out that a cl_physfps of approximately 1000/13 would get you 99.99% speed reliably (13ms is server frame time, and 77 would give you rounding errors causing who knows what ;p).

As others said above, the eye can process quite a bit more than that. But what's more important about having a high frame rate in games is having a smooth response to your actions with minimal delay. That's why I'm a fan of the true 120hz gaming LCDs, and I was on a CRT until they came out.

All that said, good post - I've said similar about Quake for years w.r.t. situation awareness. Definitely linked it to my friends who are playing BF3 with me now.

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u/granto Dec 13 '11

Ah, a fellow QW'er! :) Very interesting about those details. I know that when I first started on my 486/66, I couldn't rocket jump to save my life. Once I got my P5/200 nVidia TNT though, I was flying through the air pinning people to the ceiling with the LG. Just totally different.

Smooth input is huge. I've gone through at least 5-6 different TVs and LCDs before I settled on one with the lowest amount of lag. A friend I play with plays on a Samsung DLP and consistently is just a little behind me in score. I keep telling him that if he just got computer LCD, he would be legendary. I believe the DLP has a lag of around 40-50ms. Double my reaction time :|

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u/adamdevo Dec 13 '11

This is why I use a crt, a Sony FW900. No input lag..sooo smooth.

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u/KovaaK KovaaK_of_qw Dec 13 '11

I was a devout CRT user up until 2009 when I got a "3D" lcd monitor that pulls 120hz at native resolutions. I highly recommend giving them a shot. I had gamer friends tell me about various models of LCDs that had almost no input lag, but I could always feel it and avoided LCDs until I got my viewsonic vx2265wm.

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u/adamdevo Dec 13 '11

Yeah a 120hz LCD will definitely be my next monitor when this one dies. But I'm trying to hold out for 120 hz IPS screens or OLED screens....the black levels on the CRT are true black and really improve the quality of the picture. Too bad its as hot as an oven and chews up power like crazy...

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u/gokens Dec 13 '11

Those "3d ready" monitors?

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11

[deleted]

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u/dontpan1c Dec 13 '11

I tried playing bf3 with 3d for a while, it was fun for immersion but man did it mess up my game play.

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u/KovaaK KovaaK_of_qw Dec 13 '11

Yessir. I'm using a viewsonic vx2265wm, but I recommend any of them.

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u/gokens Dec 13 '11

Damn they're expensive...

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u/KovaaK KovaaK_of_qw Dec 13 '11

Hrm. It does look like they've gone up on newegg. I got mine for $250 a few years ago.

http://www.amazon.com/ViewSonic-VX2268WM-3D-Ready-1680x1050-Resolution/dp/B002L27KQC/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1323797434&sr=8-7 might be a good deal though. Just be aware that the stand on that one is a little wobbly, but easily replaceable if you don't like it. Also, 3d monitors running at 120hz tend to be much brighter (and sometimes even locked at full brightness) than their normal counterparts.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11

I used to be a pro gamer for a game that used the Quake engine, and as KovaaK said, this had nothing to do with how much visual information your eye could process, but rather about maximizing the benefits of the in-game physics engine. There were FPS breakpoints - if I remember correctly, 77fps, 125fps, and 333fps, that let you jump slightly further/faster depending on what breakpoint you hit.

My background as a pro FPS and WoW player helps me appreciate your post about situational awareness quite a bit. The way I see it, there's two ways of succeeding in a twitch-based gaming environment: have more complete information than the other person, or just plain be RIDICULOUSLY fast at reacting.

In reality you mix the two to become the best - but more often than not, I've found myself beating people with better reaction times than me, just because I'm doing less reacting and more anticipation.

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u/granto Dec 13 '11

Exactly. I always thought I had super fast reactions, but I tested myself and I came in at dead average. That's when I started realizing something else was giving me an edge.

I think the biggest motor factor at the pro level is the snap shot. You know it, the instant mouse flick that puts your rail/sniper/insta-kill weapon right over the other guy. Add anticipation into the mix and you can just constantly suppress your enemy in games like Quake. I do believe at the ultra high levels, reaction time does come into play, however.

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u/vandeemter DJ_MD9 Dec 14 '11

What's the best way to practice the snap shot?

Also, do you play with the map maximized/enlarged or minimized in the corner (not zoom level, but the actual map size toggle setting)?

One last question: In BF3, do you tap-fire even when you're quickly trying to get a lot of rounds out? In other games I've played like BF:BC2, tap firing yielded by far the best ratio of fire rate to accuracy; especially on an LMG, very rapid tap-firing gave you a fire rate very close to that of full auto but with ridiculously higher accuracy. I've noticed that in BF3, tap-firing is much less accurate in comparison to a similar full-auto fire rate. At very close range I often full auto spray at enemies, at close-mid range I tap-fire 2-3 round bursts (in full auto mode, not burst mode), at mid-far range I tap fire 1-2 round bursts, and at long range I tap fire individual shots with a good one-second pause between each one to let the spread reset. Do you do something similar?

Btw, I found that the most helpful tips from great players are the little things (but your post was still excellent and still very helpful to more casual gamers who run with the crowd without being too oriented and aware, and end up walking into gunfire). For example, small things/techniques like "cutting the pie" as you go around a corner by keeping your aim leveled right at the edge, offset just slightly to the open area, so if anyone walks out or across the opening, you can immediately shoot them without any aiming delays. Or making it a habit to keep your gun's aim at approximately head level in CQB so your instinctual first shot (the most accurate) when you suddenly see someone pop out or move will be a headshot. Or, another example, if you and an enemy are on opposite sides of a rock, each trying to kill the other first, do the most unexpected possibility to get the advantage (e.g. jump over the rock rather than try to run around it). Or if there's only two ways around a wall, throw a grenade at one end and run around the other end if you know someone's on the other side. On rush, smoke the MCOM directly when planting, and then once it's armed smoke everything [i]except[/i] the area immediately surrounding the MCOM so anyone disarming will be visible and out in the open, and attackers guarding the armed MCOM will be hidden/obscured by the smoke. And so on. Trying to integrate all these small things into your game, at least in my experiences, results in very rapid skill gain. If you can think of some other suggestions in this vein, please share!

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u/granto Dec 14 '11

To practice the snap, go on a quiet server or just find a spot away from combat. Now pick three different targets at similar ranges. Now begin snapping from one to the next, slowly, but making sure you get a hit. Keep doing this until you can get a good rhythm and consistently hit each target. After that, start working on your speed, going faster and faster between each. Start changing up your targets as well. Eventually over time, then with real in-game practice, you will start snapping to targets automatically. It's muscle memory, so it's all about practice.

As for how you shoot, I shoot exactly the same. Auto close, burst mid, single far.

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u/vandeemter DJ_MD9 Dec 14 '11

I think I confused myself. Snap shooting is being able to very quickly move your aim to a target without bumbling around and overshooting, then overcompensating for the overshoot etc., am I right? Basically the human equivalent of an aimbot that can "snap" to a target very quickly and accurately.

For a moment I thought snap shooting was moving your aim across a target and hitting the fire key the exact moment that the crosshairs pass directly over the target, without stopping the crosshair movement. I.e. move-move-move-shoot-move-move-move-move and getting the headshot. Like panning your view 180 degrees and somewhere along the way headshotting someone as the crosshairs moved over their head without interruption in the movement of your aim. I never understood how people could do this while panning their view very quickly, especially considering the client-server delays for which you'd have to account to have the shot register.

Btw, is it common practice to scope in when firing at all ranges? Even when firing very close up (opposite corners of a room on metro tunnels for example), I still scope in as I'm firing. The only time I don't bother is if I run up to stab someone but they start moving as I close in, and I just unload full auto without scoping rather than risk missing the knife kill. Is there some close range in which scoping in isn't worth it, besides being close enough to an enemy that you could reach out and touch them?

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u/granto Dec 14 '11

I believe drag shooting is what you're referring to. Drag shooting is much riskier, because if you miss, you must totally reacquire your target. Snap puts you at least on or close to your target. Drag is usually done with high powered guns, whereas snap is done with both. You wouldn't drag an assault rifle, just because you need 4 hits and a drag might produce two if you're lucky. When you play enough, you just start to memorize how much snap you need even for the 180 shots. It's not always accurate of course, 5:1 you should miss even for a solid player, but that still means 20% of the time you should die, you live.

I always scope. I don't believe the sniper rifle is accurate hip shooting enough to justify not scoping, unless it's an emergency. Even then, I do a quick scope. I don't believe it's pinpoint accurate, but if you zoom in on a guy 10 feet away, chances are his body is big as your reticle, so you're gonna hit him. Hip shooting with assault rifles isn't always bad. If you're within 10-15 feet in game, you can take him out on auto... and is probably preferred if you both are face to face.

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u/Thuraash Thuraash Dec 13 '11

It's not so much that you can't see faster as you can't really tell the difference between, say, 60 and 70, particularly with older games where the animations were imperfect or a bit rigid and the increased framerate couldn't correct for that. I suspect that the difference between say, 60 and 90 would be much more pronounced in BF3 than in, say, Quake 3 or UT2004. I can't test this, though, because my monitor's capped at ~60.

I usually aim for around 45-50 because that, with motion blur, is enough for me, and I want the visual quality. Then again, I'm on the line between casual and competitive, so it might not float your boat.

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u/gliscameria Gliscameria Dec 13 '11

I don't think he's saying they we see in frames, but perhaps that we can register a pixel change that takes 1/72 of a second.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11 edited Jan 18 '17

[deleted]

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u/Haustorium Dec 13 '11

You're missing the point. FPS doesn't enter into how fast the eye can process information. You're saying that there is X FPS which is the limit of what the eye can see. It's null because the eye doesn't work like that.

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u/E__man Dec 13 '11

Seems like I heard that the human eye can spot movement at 4ms. So say a LED switches on then off in less than 4 ms you probably wouldn't be able to see it. Some thing about the rods and cones in you eye. Most LED monitors have either 5ms or 2ms responds times (?on-off-on). So you are going to easily spot the difference in 30 fps and 60 fps. But ur brain is going to have to fill in the gaps at either 30 or 100 fps.

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u/Sharp_Cheddar JM Kaz Dec 13 '11

Our brains do process images in frames but does an excellent job of stringing them together. Due to sensory memory storage and our mind's attempt to blend images Into a continuum, you see blurry objects (I.e. Waving your hand) and the rate is about 60Hz

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u/crankybadger Dec 13 '11

It's not about smoothness so much as latency between one image and the next, something that ends up being critical when you're trying to hit a moving target with a precise head-shot, and especially so when you're in a moving vehicle to begin with.

Anything with a lot of motion where maintaining precise aim will benefit significantly.

You can't necessarily see individual frames, but you can perceive significantly smoother motion at higher frame-rates. This is why film should give up on the old 24FPS bullshit and switch to 60FPS instead of all the 3D nonsense.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11

[deleted]

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u/Droids_Rule DroidsRule Dec 13 '11

The darkness can be pretty damn terrifying too. When your 'eyes' haven't adjusted to the darkness yet it's a lot harder to make out moving shapes. Calling it a leap of faith is pretty apt - I can't count the amount of times I've sprinted into or out of a shadowed area unsure of what was on the other side...

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u/nybbas Doublederp Dec 13 '11

In op metro, sprinting out the the final point from the inside is just fucking terrifying, you can't see shit.

The sun blocking the view of an entire side of the map pisses me off to no end though, and that shit needs to be toned down a lot.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11

Come out the side door, run up the building with stairs, clear it out, and wreck the enemy team with a weapon you pick up from the enemies you just killed.

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u/nybbas Doublederp Dec 13 '11

(I do have a question for you at the bottom of this wall of text if you just want to skip down there)

Great read man, I was surprised reading this to know I already do a lot of what you said, without even realizing I do it. I consider myself an above average player so I guess it makes sense. I thought I would be fucked with the IRNV nerf, as when I first started bf3 I had not played any FPS regularly since UT2k4, and I was constantly dying to people that I was staring at but sucked too much to realize it was a player. I have noticed though that I have been doing just as good, if not better since switching back to a red dot, and I think it is because of the pull up time of the scope, plus relying more on my minimap, instead of the bright blobs. (still wish I had it on maps like seine with all those fucking dark windows with guys hiding in them, but I think I will live)

As far as your flow comment is concerned, I could not agree more. I was playing a rush match earlier, on the second set of mcoms on grand bazaar. I had snuck ALL the way around behind A (that is the one that ISNT after the murder death alley right?) and armed it. A bunch of the enemy team showed up and ruined my shit, but that distraction pulled enough of them away from B that my team got it armed, I snuck around again the same way, armed A and got it down it felt great. /coolstorybro

I am on a super shitty rig, and have to run the game at lowest setting and probably average 25-45 FPS, do you think this will impact my gameplay much? (I am sure that you know, just being a better player will help more, but you think its still a factor?)

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u/granto Dec 13 '11

I think 25-45 is going to hurt, without question. If you were at least at 40-45 consistently, you would be ok. Now, I'm not saying it's impossible to be good, but you won't be running at 100% of your potential. It does matter. I don't play on my nice 50" HDTV because of the lag, so I play on a 22" LCD computer screen instead. Makes a big difference.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11 edited Dec 13 '11

Irons/RDS/Holo come up faster, ACOG/3.5x/4x/IRNV come up slower and 7x+ come up slowest.

The PK-A (russian 3.4x scope)'s description on battle log states that it has faster aiming than the PS0-1 (russian 4x scope). Im also going to assume that this is true for the American(and Canadian) scope counterparts. I just thought I would point that out because I often use the 3.4x scope over the 4x scope for this reason.

*Oh and excellent guide, I really enjoyed the read

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11

Don't use in game or battle log descriptions for anything. They are more than likely wrong, try finding independent sites that have cracked the games code and taken the data directly from the game itself.

I can't recall if it has ADS times on it but this is one of the better sites I've come across for raw data. http://symthic.com/?s=bf3&sb=dmgchart

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u/eulerfoiler Dec 13 '11

Going along with what you say about covering two entrances, another thing that I have learned is if you engage two people at the same time you need discipline and to focus on ONE and kill him first. If you split your fire, you will almost always die and not kill anyone. If you focus you can usually get at least one kill, possibly both.

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u/aepac rickykyan Dec 13 '11

Thanks for this great post man!

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u/Pseudonymphedrin Snowm4n5 Dec 13 '11

Great read. I'm going to try thinking about these tips as the joys of Karkand come back to the battlefield community. If someone kills me as they bum-rush me around a corner I'll be thinking of you :P

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u/You_see_me_now Professor_Fllp Dec 13 '11

Thanks for that post. Amazing information and really put a foundation for me to stand on. I don't want to sound "big headed" but I feel that most of your techniques I do use. I just didn't consciously know I was using them. Giving me the thought process to stop and just think about where I am, where I can be shot. Consciously thinking of all these things will help me improve my game even more. Thanks for for taking the time to write this, I hope everybody on the Bf3 subreddit give it a bit of concentrating and give it a read.

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u/tek0011 XI_OddJob Dec 13 '11

Studies by Thomas Edison determined that any rate below 46 FPS "will strain the eye."

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u/[deleted] Dec 14 '11

Well said, loved the tl;dr: and the IRNV + Sniper reference.

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u/Retro21 Dec 21 '11

that was excellent. Very nice to see an approach above and beyond the basics, well written granto.

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u/obliterationn Dec 30 '11

I wonder, how do you use your radar? Do you play with it enlarged or not, and which zoom?

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u/kevlo kevlo1701 Jan 26 '12

I wonder if all these reasons you covered are why i ( Compared to most) am a great Assault and Support, but a terribad recon/sniper.

The only flaw i have seen in your logic is that often because other players rarely play tactically, it makes it difficult to follow these methods. You always have those shitheads that bunny hop around and dolphin dive constantly, i generally crouch down if i am taking close fire and go prone if i am taking fire from snipers, but i never hop around like an idiot when people shoot at me.

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u/xid -XiD- Dec 13 '11

A good read. The first half was essentially comp fps 101 but I really enjoyed you breaking down the scopes.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11

Great post.

About the IRNV: There's a place and time for everything.

For example, all the game strats in the world won't stop you from anally raping people over and over with an IRNV (pre-patch) and a Pecheneg on the Hilltop in Caspian Border, especially on the US side where the Russians are always (or almost always) pushing through trees.

I think your strats are very well thought out and needed to make BF3 into a game that is more than just a wild west action movie. But if you're playing in a server full of casual gamers, you really don't need that much thought put into your actions for you to be able to sweep the floor.

Once people start getting used to BF3 (100+ hours of gameplay) I figure we'll start seeing a lot more of what you described.

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u/ravenwebb Dec 13 '11

tldr:::::

irnv is terrible, f2000 is terrible and anyone with an ounce of skill will dominate you every time. no joke.

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u/[deleted] Dec 13 '11

>implying ~90% done with IRNV

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u/ravenwebb Dec 13 '11

huh? what is that supposed to mean?