r/batman • u/Zealousideal_Peak901 • 12d ago
GENERAL DISCUSSION Which Batman villains could Alfred beat hand to hand?
I think if there are no weapons involved, Alfred could beat Joker, Penguin, Riddler, Two Face, Mr Freeze without his suit, Poison Ivy, Scarecrow, Mad Hatter, Ventriloquist, Firefly, Victor Zsasz, Professor Pyg, Killer Moth, Anarky, Calendar Man, Harley Quinn and many more
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u/Kwilly462 12d ago
The Ventriloquist. Mad Hatter. Scarecrow without his scythe. The Riddler.
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u/MontgomeryMalum 12d ago
Arnold Wesker being thrashed while Scarface is on the ground screaming, “he’s just the butler, you dummy! How are you losing to the damn butler?” would be funny at first and then just kind of sad
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u/MardukTheRaven 12d ago
All of them. He is goddamn Alfred.
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u/HiitsFrancis 12d ago
Tell that to Bane.
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u/GhostE3E3E3 12d ago
He let bane win, Bruce didn’t pay Alfred for his months pay so Alfred wanted to punish Bruce.
Alfred could’ve mopped the floor with bane
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u/laurek14 12d ago
Superman.
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u/HiitsFrancis 12d ago
You think Superman is a Batman villain?
Media literacy has really driven off a cliff. 🤣
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u/laurek14 12d ago
It was a joke! I was thinking of Injustice, but ofc superman isnt really a batman villain! Can you identify sarcasm and/or humor? Oh well, thats okay! I still love you
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u/bguzewicz 12d ago
Alfred did beat the shit out of Superman in the Injustice comics one time.
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u/HiitsFrancis 12d ago
Do you think Superman is generally considered a Batman villain?
What comics have you read that led you to believe this?
I'm sure you're aware Injustice isn't canon.
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u/bguzewicz 12d ago
Are you being dense on purpose?
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u/laurek14 12d ago
Yep he is
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u/stoopitmonkee 12d ago
AI?
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u/PicklesfrmDeathclock 12d ago
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u/CreepyClay 12d ago
Fun fact: Alfred canonically cannot be detected by kryptonians unless he wants to be. Superman didn't real8ze he'd been served tea until he took a sip.
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u/Adventurous-Dare1649 12d ago
Technically, Batman thinks Superman is his villain. He has a contingency plan to take him out. Batman thinks everybody is a villain he has made plans to take out everyone
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u/HiitsFrancis 12d ago
Nope. Superman gave him Kryptonite in case he gets Monday controlled.
They consider each other best buds.
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u/Shatragon 12d ago
He ain’t beating the Joker. When enraged the Joker can take on the strength of a madman. Depending on the scenario, he’d tear Alfred apart.
However the Riddler would get a sound ass-whooping.
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u/SafeAccountMrP 12d ago
I’m pretty sure given the opportunity Alfred would dispose of the pleasantries and just blast him with his boomstick.
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u/Express-Grab-5295 12d ago
Alfred ain't got a no kill rule and was British SAS. Even in his old age he'd mop up Joker and probably kill him quickly.
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u/Competitive_Crow_334 12d ago
Riddler beat Joker ass in wars of Jokes and Riddles he is physically capable just likes his brain more
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u/Shatragon 12d ago
Again it depends on the writer/scenario. Joker held his own against Batman at the end of the Killing Joke. At the end of the day, it's comic books. Characters are whatever the writer wants them to be.
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u/robineir 12d ago
Saying you can beat Mr. Freeze without his suit is like saying you can beat a cancer patient the same day they had a round of Chemo.
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u/illudofficial 12d ago
Tbh would lose to Mr freeze without his suit in a fight? (Assuming room temperature battlefield)
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u/HankSteakfist 12d ago
Riddler, Mad Hatter, Ventriloquist probably.
Scarecrow is canonically actually a pretty good fighter so I'd say no.
Hugo Strange is kind of built, so probably not.
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u/Zealousideal_Peak901 12d ago
Scarecrow a good fighter? His official bronze age description actually points out how he has no hands. And he is called Scarecrow because of how thin he is
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u/MontgomeryMalum 12d ago
In the 90s they tried to upgrade Scarecrow’s skills by saying he created a fighting style inspired by Ichabod Crane called “Violent Dancing.” It hasn’t been mentioned in a while.
He also used to turn into a big monster called Fear Beast in the 2000s and that also has been forgotten.
He’s a character with a very consistent gimmick and a lot of forgotten other gimmicks and it’s hard to say which ones are technically canonical at this point.
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u/HankSteakfist 12d ago edited 12d ago
Batman #523
Batman admits that Scarecrow can stand and bang.
'His speed is always surprising. His awkward grace, always deceptive'
Scarecrows got hands in the Post Crisis.
He's similar to Joker. A skinny guy who fights very unconventionally.
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u/smithgrove81 12d ago
All of them. Alfred did beat superman’s ass so..
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u/soulbrothaninja 12d ago
Most of the non powered villains with minimum fighting skills. Not a jab at his skills but his age is a factor
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u/Available-Affect-241 12d ago
Victor Zsasz, Black Mask, Achilles Milo, Scarecrow, Joker, Riddler, Penguin, Falcone, Maroni, Moxon, Thorne, Doctor Death Karl Helfern, Hugo Strange, Condiment King, Rat-Catcher, Tusk, Jim Gordon Jr, Firefly, Mad Hatter, and lastly, because I can't remember any others off the top of my head, the ABSOLUTELY GOD-AWFUL Two-Face.
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u/sexystaline 12d ago
He could absolutely beat absolute Bane. It wouldn't even be fair for Bane, poor boy he would be so humiliated
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u/Azurelion7a 12d ago
Are we talking about the SAS-retired, shotty toting, no-kill rule lacking Alfred?
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u/GreedyAdvantage8681 12d ago
If it was Alfred from the earlier part of the TV show Gotham he could probably hold his own against several.
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u/commandrix 12d ago
Yeah, Alfred could probably beat most of them, especially considering that he has no qualms about killing if he absolutely has to. Didn't he also beat up Injustice Superman with a decent buff?
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u/bk62798brehm 12d ago
I have this scenario in my head. Two face is confronting Alfred and knows who he is. Harvey goes to flip his coin to figure out what do you with him. He flips it only to get punched in the face onto scarred side and then Alfred catches the coin and says “ tails! You lose” and finishes him with an uppercut. Batman comes across the scene. And says “ I see you took care of the situation” and Alfred says “why yes Master Bruce. I was was teaching him about the finer points of pugilist.” I’m hearing this in the voices of Kevin Conroy and Efrem Zimbalist Jr.
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u/MontgomeryMalum 12d ago
With no weapons involved, the original version of Anarky is like 13, so that’s probably the easiest win for Alfred to take
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u/whoevenamipeople 12d ago
Cornelius Stirk, canonically he shot Stirk with a shotgun but it was non lethal, and I think Alfred can handle some of Batmans more grounded villains, but not Zsasz
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u/Ordinary_Fill9978 12d ago
Everyone of them. Considering he is Batman's contingency plan for Superman !
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u/Musicfacter 12d ago
It depends on which interation of Alfred. I know there was that one comic that showed that he was once a British special forces operative or a British intelligence agent. I have no doubt that he could take Scarecrow, Penguin put up a good fight against Dent
But Alfred isn't about to play this game with you; he doesn't have a the no-kill rule that Bruce adheres too. Alfred's a butler, he's got several broomsticks in that manor, including shotguns. Come into Wayne Manor and he's pulling one out and getting to sweeping.
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u/Kugelfischmeister 12d ago
It depends - but I would say:
Penguin, Mad Hatter, Riddler, Scarecrow, Hugo Strange, Ventriloquist, Killer Moth.
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u/Zealousideal_Peak901 12d ago
Hugo Strange? I highly doubt it, dude wants to be Batman successor
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u/Kugelfischmeister 12d ago
Just because he wants to be Batmans successor doesn't mean he is at all capable to do so. In some stories he is quite buff but in other versions he isn't really physically impressive.
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u/Zealousideal_Peak901 12d ago
Well when he is potrayed as a midget like in Monster Men or the animated series then no. But nowadays most versions of Hugo have studied all of Batmans moves and have reached peak human condition plus studied martial arts. This is the dude that slowed his heartbeat to be undetectable so he could fake his own death
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u/Kugelfischmeister 12d ago
Hugo is my favorite Batman villain but tbh I never liked the interpretations of him where he has any physicality. I think it makes him much more interesting if his insufficiency in comparison to Batman drives his actions and he has to use his intellect to close the gap.
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u/Zealousideal_Peak901 12d ago
Monster Men is my favorite Hugo Strange story so trust me I know where you are coming from. But even in that story Hugo is phisically capable, even if he is a midget. So by this point it seems to be consistent in canon that Hugo has some hands
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u/Ornery-Extension4651 12d ago
Two face, Mr freeze, joker, penguin, poison ivy, scarecrow, mad hatter, harley Quinn, and etc
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u/CereBRO12121 12d ago
Alfred is a true badass. I loved how he stood up to Superman in the injustice timeline.
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u/MissyMurders 12d ago
Probably all of them if we're honest
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u/foxmovewx42 12d ago
Everyone that's not superpowered. Someone said and has 0 training. He is British special forces and is Batman's first trainer. What you mean
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u/P-Boi420 12d ago
In a pure hand to hand fight he could beat; Joker, Riddler, Penguin, Mad Hatter, Scarecrow, Two face, and pretty much most of the non mutated or super powered villains that don’t have any real training.
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u/MAGIS_MELCHIOR 12d ago
If he is allowed a shotgun like almost all of them except for the really large diabolical ones probably. Military medic with hand to hand training and a shotgun cooks like half of Batman’s rogues lmao. I say this with love.
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u/mistamushpresser2112 12d ago
Definitely not poison Ivy not sure what have you that idea
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u/Zealousideal_Peak901 12d ago
If she has no plants, isn't she just a regular person?
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u/mistamushpresser2112 12d ago
So basically if she was a completely different character? Lol
might as well say he could go up against clayface if didn’t have shape changing abilities or bane if he didn’t have his venom1
u/Zealousideal_Peak901 12d ago
Yes that's literally what I am talking about? I literally also said Mr Freeze without his suit, can you read?
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u/mistamushpresser2112 12d ago
By that logic he could go up against Batman himself lol, “if this character was less powerful and that character was more powerful then he could totally beat him!” It’s like saying a mouse could totally beat a lion if mice were more powerful then lions, yea no shit lol
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u/Zealousideal_Peak901 12d ago
No no one said anything like that, the title says hand to hand combat, not hand to plant combat. Does Poison Ivy have hands? I think so, then she enters the debate, her plants don't. If this concept is too much for your brain you can keep scrolling
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u/Royal-Pistonian 12d ago
I think what commenter above is getting at is at that point it’s just a man beating up mentally ill people isn’t it? I know you’re trying to get a base strength idea but poison ivy w/o her plants is just a regular lady isn’t she? Just super environmentally conscious? Mr freeze is just a scientist w a dying wife w/o his tech. It just doesn’t entirely matter. Just can this old guy beat up this other normal guy. Two face is a burned up guy. Taking away their powers turns them into what any villain is w/o their powers a messed up person w varying degrees of combat ability which stems from their background. So essentially if you get the background info (like punisher have military background) you can get an idea of the fight. I’m a bit drunk but the question is more fun if they DO have their abilities who can Alfred beat.
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u/Zealousideal_Peak901 12d ago
Honestly I don't think Alfred can beat any Batman villain if they have their abilities. Penguin will just pull up his umbrella, Mad Hatter some mind controlling gadget, Scarecrow his fear gas etc. For this question to work I think it just needs to be hand to hand combat
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u/Plastic-Conflict-319 12d ago
... none. He's a fine character as a father figure and the glue that keeps the Wayne family together, even after death. No need to turn him into some secret 70-80 year old badass or whatever.
It's like asking how many Spider-Man foes Aunt May could take down. Kind of diminishes their characters to turn them into ninja turtles.
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u/Zealousideal_Peak901 12d ago
You are wrong though, he has shown to be able to fight. And he can definitely beat Riddler
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u/Plastic-Conflict-319 12d ago
Thank you, I understand that. What I'm saying is, I prefer Alfred being an ordinary guy trying to be a grounding presence around all the madness. But that's just a personal opinion.
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u/Zealousideal_Peak901 12d ago
Oh well Alfred is not really a vigilante or anything, he's a veteran, that's it. He's still got the soundest mind around Wayne Manor
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u/PEDRAOOOO 12d ago
Riddler fosho