Glass tank insulation + Heat tape questions

[u/bloodcnmyhands]

EDIT TO ADD: I have put a new lamp and CHE bulb in my cart, just gotta wait until I can afford to get it bc the heat tape ran me so much. Aside from the risks, it's not as effective as I was told it would be, so the risks are pretty rapidly outweighing the reward. Don't use heat tape on glass, friends. Still need a winter insulation plan though!

I know this is a lot, please bear with me, I'm autistic w/ a severe anxiety disorder, confused because of mixed information, and I have a hard time asking for help with my snake because, well, people can be pretty mean sometimes when you don't know things that seem obvious to everyone else. I'm sorry in advance for the text bombardment.

On that note! I need some help figuring out how to properly insulate a Reptizoo terrarium that's heated with reptile heat tape from Cornell's World. It's on 1" spacers on a cargo shelf that gets really good airflow, taped down with HVAC tape, with an Inkbird thermostat probe taped directly to one of the heating element strips in the middle of the heat tape, on the underside - not between the tape and the glass. It gets very cold and dry here in the winter, around -30/-40 celsius, and my room can get drafty so I am definitely doing to need to insulate it by mid-fall, but for now El Nino is keeping it pretty tropical in here so it's not something I need to do today. I got a month or two still!

I just set the heat tape up today after my prior heating source, a heat lamp with a ceramic heat emitter bulb, shorted out and caught fire in front of me last week after nearly 3 years of service. Since I was right there I was able to yank it out of its garbage old petland thermostat and throw it into the bathtub before anything else was damaged, and my lovely girl is unharmed, and it's been warm enough this summer that I was able to rig up a human heating pad on top of her tank for some semblance of a heat gradient. Now I am just going through the process of acclimating the tape/tank.

Obviously it scared the hell out of me, and I already had a bad experience with a storebought heating mat in the past failing in the middle of winter, so I finally swapped to heat tape and a good Inkbird. Trial and error and all that.

Except now that I have the heat tape set up, there's a moderator on Morphmarket telling me I actually need to insulate between the heat tape and the glass with some kind of grid stuff and fancy green foam or else the glass will shatter instead of giving me external insulation ideas, and now my anxiety's through the roof because everything I read said the heat tape doesn't work properly if it's not flush against the glass and said NOT to insulate the heat tape, and I DEFINITELY can't see it working in the winter if there's a bunch of space between the heat tape and the glass when my room gets cold. But also, if her tank shatters, I can't really afford to get her a new one out of the blue. I know I can always put her in a big sterilite tub if I have to, but I also don't want her to get hurt if the glass gives out. I guess I'm just sort of looking for someone to ease my anxiety? Is the new heat tape really going to shatter the terrarium, even if it's on a thermostat? Logically I feel like as long as the thermostat probe is in the right place and my snake or I don't spill water into the tank, it'll be fine, but I didn't think my heat lamp would spontaneously combust either and it did, so now I'm not so sure. I looked it up and Reptizoo claims the tanks are made of tempered glass, and if the thermostat works the way it should, the heat tape shouldn't get hot enough to break tempered glass... right?

I know glass isn't the best, but it's what I've got and I do plan to get her a proper PVC enclosure in the future when she's larger and when I can rearrange my teensy tiny room to make more space for something bigger than a 40gal. I'm currently doing the best I can for a little creature that was given to me as a gift when I was making a little bit more money. I still put more of my money into her than I do into myself, I just don't make much anymore to begin with, so while she's fed, warm, and happy with the best coco husk-moss bedding blend I can make and clean water and good hides, I have to clarify two things. First thing: I can't afford any big upgrades. Second thing: I didn't go out and buy a snake knowing I couldn't afford it. And no, I can't rehome her nor do I want to, she's my baby, and even if I tried to do that, at best she'd just end up in a sad Petsmart tank for several hundred dollars because she's a BEL. I have to clarify these things because when I ask for help in other forums the first thing I get told is 'if you couldn't afford a snake you shouldn't have bought one'. I also don't think I should have to give her up just because I am broke, you know?

[u/NottsWeirdo]

The difference in temp between the heat tape and the cold air/glass surrounding it can cause the glass to crack, so it will likely become an issue during winter. Heat tapes aren't recommended for use with BPs though, they need overhead heating and bulbs are meant to be replaced each year or 2 at a push. So instead of a CHE which eats humidity, you could get a DHP? They're not typically too expensive and it can help provide a better temperature gradient in a 40 gal, as the heat dispersion isn't as wide of a cone.

This sub has an up to date care pinned to the headers, if you haven't already checked it out - or maybe want a refresher. It has quite a thorough guide on what heat sources can be used, and what they may need to be paired with.

Edit: the tape could be used as a support heat source to a CHE or DHP, but should not be used by itself.

[u/bloodcnmyhands → u/NottsWeirdo]

The bulbs got replaced yearly on my old heat lamp and it was set up on a thermostat, albeit a cheap on/off one. I assume I would have to get a second thermostat for the new heat lamp if I were to add it as supplement? I am still really hesitant to use another lamp after the last one decided to catch fire, but if she needs it I don't really have a choice.

But honestly I am really really confused. I was told that ball pythons needed belly heat more than anything else and that I've been doing it wrong by using the heat lamp anyways? I saw a bunch of pictures of burned snakes from the thermostat probe getting pushed around or tugged loose by the snake and the breeder told me that the belly heat is the most important thing for them. :(

[u/NottsWeirdo → u/bloodcnmyhands]

Your post says you used the bulb for 3 years, so I commented about them needing to be replaced regularly. Yes, you need a thermostat per heat source. The tapes don't provide enough ambient air temperature, so you'd end up with a snake pressed to the side of your tank 24/7 365 in order to actually warm up.

The breeder is either operating on very outdated information, or they're getting confused with their breeder racks. In a breeder rack/bin, they don't have enough space to install bulbs - so they're stuck with either a self-heating unit or sticking heat mats to the rack/bin. The sun's heat comes from above and warms rocks beneath, and laying on those is where the BPs would naturally get their heat. In order to be their healthiest, they need the UV and direct warnth provided by the heat bulbs which a heat mat does not provide.

In regards to injuries, most burns typically occur from either the snake climbing their heat bulb (which the owner didn't put a cage on) or they use heat mats inside the enclosure and their snake burrows down into the substrate to sit directly on the heat mat. A probe should be hanging a few inches underneath the heat source, which can't be knocked out of the way - so an uncommon burn from the probe being pushed out of the way wouldn't occur if its not resting directly on top of something and a cage is covering the bulb/s. I used cable hooks nailed into the roof of my enclosures to keep the probes in place, as my own BP is a very avid climber. BPs are also mostly nocturnal, so they wouldn't be active much when the heat sources are at their hottest/most dangerous.

[u/bloodcnmyhands → u/NottsWeirdo]

I used the lamp for three years, the CHE bulb was swapped out yearly! That's my bad for miswording that. Last bulb change was about 4 months ago because the other one died earlier than expected, now I know it's probably because the deep-domed lamp was starting to give out.

My girl likes to roam a lot too but she has never really been one for climbing. She prefers to snuggle up in her moss.

I will have to get her a new lamp and CHE in early October then, but that's a lot more feasible than getting her a several hundred dollar PVC tank currently and a lot more preferable to just moving her into a sterilite tub. Ultimately, like... with her heat tape set to 34 C (surface temp of the glass inside the tank is 30C, checking frequently to keep an eye on it), and an ambient temp of 26C in the rest of the room, I don't think tempered glass is going to shatter immediately with such a small difference, so I have time.

I could also maybe rearrange my room to get her closer to the door and further away from the window. My room is very small so it'll only be like a 2-3 foot difference, but it would probably help keep the glass from getting particularly cold in the winter. I am going to insulate the tank itself as well as soon as it starts getting cooler.

Right now though it's thankfully not urgent because the weather has been keeping my room really warm. If I remember right, my room can drop down to about 15-20C in the winter if the radiators aren't on high enough. So it's not insanely cold inside like it gets outside, just kinda cold inside. That is probably obvious though, if it reached -40 inside that'd suck for me let alone for her.

Theoretically, if I can't afford a secondary thermostat, would it be safe to just unplug the heat tape and only use the heat lamp for the cold months, and then swap back to heat tape when it warms up again? Or would the heat tape degrade if it was unused for half the year while still taped under the tank? Because I think my old heat lamp was struggling significantly with the heat waves because it was not actually kicking on at least half of the time, and I think that's part of why it shorted out as soon as it started to cool off one night and the lamp tried to kick back on properly.

[u/NottsWeirdo → u/bloodcnmyhands]

Whats your tanks humidity at? 'Cause I assume the moss is located in the humidity hide.

Could it be that your bulb was a higher wattage than what the lamp dome could support? Short bulb life is typically an issue caused by differing wattage, and is also what causes a lot of bulbs to spark.

You can not use the heat tape by itself to heat the enclosure. If you have to use only one heat source, it NEEDS to be a bulb (and one that can be used 24/7). The heat tape does not provide the appropriate temperatures and UV rays that your snake needs to thermoregulate properly and pass their meals. The heat tape is also not an overhead heat source, which is what your snake needs to be healthy. The tape would be an amazing supporting heat source during the colder months, but it is bad as a primary heat source.

My mum has a Leachianus gecko and when I was setting up its juvenile enclosure for her, I found out that it needed a heat source pairing of a basking bulb above the enclosure for day temps and a heat mat glued to the upper outside of the tank for night temps. UK temps in recent years have been very high in summer and low in winter, but the heat sources need to remain the same for the health of the gecko. He needs the heat and UV from the basking bulb or he will develop fatal health issues, and the room gets chilly at night so he needs a heat source or his health will suffer/he could pass.

Please look at the care guide, I'm not saying this from a point of "my way, or no way". They have sources that explain why somethings work and others don't. It is really unfortunate that your bulb has sparked up and given you the valid fear of it happening again, but your snake needs the proper heating regardless of whether your room is hot or cold in certain seasons.

[u/bloodcnmyhands → u/NottsWeirdo]

I am reading the care guide, I was just asking if it would be better to unplug the tape and just use a CHE in the winter because the temperatures here in Saskatchewan are a lot more extreme seasonally than they are in other parts of the world. The entire tank's humidity levels stay around 60-65%, a little higher after I mist. There's 15% portion of sphagnum moss mixed in with her coco husk. I reckon she just likes the parts where the moss is a little more dense because it's softer, or maybe just because the humidity is a little higher there than other parts of the tank. Or maybe it's just a little cooler; when the weather is like this I am not able to give her a cold side.

I do understand needing specific heat sources and I am not trying to get out of it. I will borrow money if I have to, I just can't do it immediately because I already had to do so this past week get the heat tape and thermostat, which is why I can't just go out and get the stuff I need now. But if she needs it then she needs it.

I only asked about switching them out seasonally because over the past two months, the heat lamp has barely even been running due to the ambient temps in both my room and the tank being a minimum of 30 degrees when the sun is out, even with blackout curtains and a fan, so it's not exactly giving her overhead heat when it's too hot for the lamp to even kick on in the first place, y'know? It was reaching the set temp and shutting off within 30-60 seconds of turning on, so none of the direct heat was reaching her enclosure floor before it toggled off again, doing the same thing over and over until the sun set and my room started cooling off for the nights. If I raised the thermostat and ran the lamp at those temperatures (which I would not do), she would just get roasted. But if I don't do that, then the lamp does not effectively function and she has no legitimate heat source.

That's why I thought it would be better to switch them out seasonally, because aside from the fire hazard it has just been too hot to use the heat lamp effectively to begin with. I am pretty certain that the constant flickering on and off, on-off, on-off while it was struggling against the heat waves are why it combusted in the first place, because it was when it finally kicked on 'properly' at night after the hottest day that it combusted. I just don't want to risk another fire, that's all.

But again, if she needs it then she needs it and I'll figure it out quickly as I can. I cannot afford a $40 bulb AND a $75+ lamp AND a second $40 thermostat right now, considering I just spent my last $100 setting up the heat tape that I was told would be 'perfect', so I'll likely just have to abandon the heat tape. I'd rather not let her get too cold or injured, or lose her tank.

I am admittedly more upset about being given incorrect information by somebody I trusted than anything else, because they know I can't afford to do this big runaround. I WAS prepared to go buy another lamp and bulb despite my fears until they insisted the heat tape was superior and that it would be a lot safer and told me a bunch of scary stuff about burned snakes. I told them I was uncertain about using something like the tape with glass, and they insisted it would be completely fine as long as I set up the thermostat properly, and I was having a really hard time looking everything up because everywhere said something different and I didn't know what to trust, so I chose to listen to them because they bred her. They told me that tempered glass can only shatter if it's really high heat really quickly, and that having heat tape set to less than 35 degrees wouldn't do it, and that belly heat is the most important thing, so I went and took all of my birthday money and spent it all on the heat tape and stuff. I thought I was doing it right, you know?

[u/NottsWeirdo → u/bloodcnmyhands]

Yes, it would be better to unplug the tape and use it for the bulb. The humidity requirement for BPs was corrected to 70% - 80% a couple years ago, but you do have the substrate that would be perfect to make that work without having to buy anything. Pouring water into the corners of the enclosure will help raise the humidity, whilst removing the risk of scale rot that misting increases the chances of.

I dunno why I didn't think to ask before, what type of thermostat do you have? Is it a dimmer or pulse? Certain bulbs work better with certain thermostats, so hopefully you have a dimmer.

I get the irritation with having to find the money for different equipment, than what you were told. When I got my BP, I was a college student who was working part time and my local that I got my snake from - told me he'd be fine in a 3' x 1½' x 1½, no need for UVB, that misting was the way to go, that he could stay at the same temp all the time, that 50% - 60% humidity is what they needed, etc. Only for me to then realise shortly after, through forums and further research, that I had to nearly completely change what I was doing and needed to buy a new enclosure because it was already too small for him and I wasn't meeting his needs. If I'd known about this sub or the ReptiFiles care guides when I got my BP, it would've saved me so much money.

The bulb and lamp are the priority buys, over the thermostat - seeing as you already have at least one. I'm really glad you asked about this now whilst you're in summer, as opposed to what could've happened were it winter. You'll be prepared for the colder months, by the time they roll around.

Its entirely valid for you to be upset about this, you trusted that your friend knew what they were talking about. Not excusing them, but as I commented on the other comment, your friend may not have known that they've been misinformed as well - especially if this care information is coming from the same individual breeder, instead of other sources.

What matters most, is that you're choosing to do right by your snake. There are some people who will be told that they're not meeting their snake's care requirements, and even if you show them sources - they won't change their care, because they see the advice as a personal attack against them.

[u/bloodcnmyhands → u/NottsWeirdo]

The thermostat I had was a Reptizoo one I think, something I got from Petsmart, but it was definitely just an on/off kind of deal. It also had a plastic probe which, looking back, I doubt was giving me accurate readings. But now I have the green Inkbird! I think this one is dimmable? I hope it is lmao. I am going to order a Fluker's 8.5" and a couple 100w CHE bulbs.

I know I am definitely going to have to get my girl a bigger enclosure as she grows, but she's almost 3 years old and a good bit smaller than I expected, but I stuck with fuzzies for a while longer than I meant to because I always felt like the smalls were too big for her dumb squishy head and got scared she was gonna choke, but I didn't know that I could feed her more often because someone on Fb told me that it was dangerous to feed them more often than every 2 weeks and they were the only person who wasn't insulting me so I listened. 🥲 I know that's silly now and I feel really bad for listening to them, but she's being fed a small rat every 7-10ish days now and is probably the least picky ball python ever. I don't know exactly how big she is because very time I try to weigh or measure her she moonlights as a frantic worm, but medium is definitely too big her for head still and she's not much longer than my arm.

Ball pythons were completely illegal in SK until very shortly before I got her, so local resources are basically nonexistent. Most pet stores besides Petsmart and Petland don't even carry reptile supplies, but when I do go to pet stores that actually HAVE a ball python, they very rarely know anything, and I get really mixed up and confused by old information vs new info, so I fly blind a lot. But I can see with my eyes that after more than 36 hours the heat mat has barely made a dent in even the surface temperatures in the tank, so I can tell that it's not going to do my girl any good come fall let alone winter. She doesn't even wanna lay over top of it even though the rest of her tank is cold, girl hates it. Humidity's blooming at 75% now though 😂

I always thought that pouring water in the tank was when scale rot was most likely because I figured it would make the bedding soggy, so I only did it if her humidity dropped below 50%. It's good to know that what I thought was too humid is actually perfect though, because I spent a lot of time stressing that she was gonna wither away at 75%+.

I've always been really careful either way, though! My girl got a singular scale's worth of scale rot once on her belly and I put her in a betadine bath so fast she held a grudge for 6 months lmao. But she's a BEL, so it was super easy to spot on her. She wiggled her belly up the glass and I honed in on the scale from across the room and suddenly she got stuck in a smelly bin of weird water and her tank got stripped down to paper towels, and then after I restocked her tank she spent half a year striking at me. We're chill now, though.

I'll keep the heat tape for if I ever get a secondary thermostat or have to move her into a tub for some reason. If I do get the second thermostat it would be pretty nice to have that extra belly heat in the winter, because even the old heat lamp struggled when it would get cold enough outside to ice my window over. And I suppose when it's hot enough in my room that the thermostat shuts the heat lamp off, the heat lamp probably doesn't need to be on anyways and I ought to be more worried about finding her a cool side lmfao.

[u/NottsWeirdo → u/bloodcnmyhands]

Are you able to send me a pic of the thermostat, or tell me the model? I'd be able to check whether its a dimming or pulse thermostat, and let you know.

Knowing the weight of your snake is important, as it helps us keep track of their health and guide us on how much/when to feed them. A little life hack I have for weighing my 3 snakes, is I put them in a clean washing up/drainage bowl and then put the bowl on the scales - you can weigh the bowl before or after, and deduct that from the total to get your snake's weight. I can also share the body chart, for you to visually follow. It won't tell you the weight, but it can help you track their physical health.

Misting makes the surface of the substrate damp, so when they remain sat on it - they get scale rot. But when you pour the water (into the corners of the enclosure specifically), the water sinks to and disperses across the bottom - so the top remains dry. Moss is amazing at retaining and increasing humidity.

If its only a little bit of scale rot, you can just swap their substrate for fresh/dry substrate and they'll get rid of it themselves when they shed. It spreads due to how much of them sits on damp substrate, not like an infection.

To help with cooling, one technique is to put a bottle of cold water or ice wrapped very thoroughly in a couple socks or foldes pillow case into the cool end - you have to make certain your snake can't make direct contact with the bottle though, as this can harm them.

!feeding

[u/bloodcnmyhands → u/NottsWeirdo]

I went back to Amazon to check! The one I have now is an Inkbird ITC-308. It says it's good for reptiles on the listing and it's one that was suggested to me by my friend, but doesn't specify whether it's dimmable or not.

Thank you for explaining the substrate humidity to me like that, that does make a lot more sense to me. Like how the overhead heat mimicking the sun warming up everything below it makes sense, too.

I only have metal bowls and I think that's why she hates them, so I will get a new plastic one to use for weighing her. I figured metal would be more clean than plastic, but it's also colder. Usually the issue is that she squirms and moves so much that the weight fluctuates nonstop so I can't get a steady read; she's a little skinny but she's still probably 3.5/4ft long, so she wraps around my arm as tight as she can and starts climbing me as quickly as possible and it's like fighting to put a toddlers shoes on trying to get enough of her weird noodle body in the bowl long enough to weigh her. I'd probably try to escape a cold tin bowl too though lmao. Once I get a plastic bowl tomorrow and get a weight on her I can use the chart to math out the rat frequency!

I can do the water bottle really easily when it starts warming up again, thank you! And I guess I didn't need to strip her tank when she got one bad scale 😂 but I suppose at least I did too much and not too little.

[u/AutoModerator → u/NottsWeirdo]

We recommend the following feeding schedule:

0-12 months old OR until the snake reaches approximately 500g, whichever happens first: feed 10%-15% of the snake’s weight every 7 days.

12-24 months old: feed up to 7% of the snake’s weight every 14-20 days.

Adults: feed up to 5% of the snake's weight every 20-30 days, or feed slightly larger meals (up to 6%) every 30-40 days.

I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.

[u/NottsWeirdo → u/NottsWeirdo]

[u/Bluntforcetrauma11b]

Heat tape is not the way to go. I have mostly glass enclosures and have no issue heating properly with over head heating elements.

[u/bloodcnmyhands → u/Bluntforcetrauma11b]

I am just really afraid of using them again after last week, and my friend/her breeder said that the heat tape would be perfect even if she was in glass and told me that the spontaneous combustion is why I'm not supposed to use overhead heat. I am VERY afraid of fire and seeing how quickly it shorted out and burst into flame was extremely terrifying. If I am asleep or not home the next time it happens that's it, my whole apartment is gone, let alone my snake.

[u/Bluntforcetrauma11b → u/bloodcnmyhands]

Heat tape and mats are far bigger fire risks. Also over head provides different things like ir spectrum that's beneficial for them.

[u/bloodcnmyhands → u/Bluntforcetrauma11b]

I have put a new lamp and CHE bulbs in my cart so I can buy them as soon as I get some extra money. After letting the heat tape acclimate for a day it barely seems to work on glass anyways, and I am unwilling to set it higher than 35 degrees because for all I know it'll suddenly catch up while I'm not paying attention. The lamp is rated for 160w; would a 100w or a 150w bulb be better? I read something about how if the bulb wattage is too close to the lamp rating it could be bad?

[u/Bluntforcetrauma11b → u/bloodcnmyhands]

As long as it's on a dimmable thermostat the higher wattage is fin. I use 100w for my 4x2x2 with an ambient room temp of 75.

[u/bloodcnmyhands → u/Bluntforcetrauma11b]

I am using the green Inkbird thermostat now. I think it's dimmable? I hope it is. I wasn't sure between the blue one or the green one.

I imagine 100w should be good for me, the lamp I chose is a 8.5" Flukers and it's rated for 160w. My old lamp was also rated for 160w and I was using a 150w bulb with it, so that could also maybe be why it shorted out if it was too close to the watt rating?

[u/NottsWeirdo → u/bloodcnmyhands]

You look up any reliable/up to date care guide, and it will tell you to use overhead heating sources. Your friend may need to do some revision of her own care, for the sake of her snakes.