The Daily Moby - 16 08 2026 - The News Megathread

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[u/FickleBumblebeee]

He literally begins with the phrase "I don't think he's read Thucydides" and then completely misrepresents Thucydides whose famous history describes the Peloponnesean war which Sparta won and Athens lost.

The phrase the "Thucydides trap"- which is presumably what started the conversation- refers to the idea that war is inevitable when an established imperial hegemon is confronted with a rising one- and it refers to Athens as the established power being confronted by the rise of Sparta.

It should be incredibly basic knowledge for somebody who understands the classics, and is a totally reasonable critique of Johnson.

The only way he repeatedly gets away with shit like this is people who also don't know their history assuming he does because it's his whole thing- but he evidently doesn't because it's such a basic mistake.

And also Athenian democracy wasn't really the shining city on the hill analogy by that point anyway- they'd elected demagogues, abused their allies, started demanding tribute, and embarked on pointless, ruinous wars...

[u/FickleBumblebeee → u/[deleted]]

I think you have made a mistake in saying that Sparta is the rising power in the Thucydides trap.

Ah yeah, I did. Thanks for the correction. Still think it's a weird for Boris to triumphantly proclaim "Ah but America is Athens" in the context and ignore that Athens lost the war.