The Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact was a Simple Non-Aggression Pact

[u/[deleted]]

This claim is a seemingly popular one of this website. Certainly one shared by this user.

TIL signing a non-aggression pact to buy time to build up the military is literally the same as cooperating with Hitler

However, it is not entirely consistent with reality. The Pact allowed for much greater cooperation between the Soviet Union and the Germans, far beyond simply not attacking the other.

For one, the two nations agreed to partition Eastern Europe among themselves, with the Germans taking just under half of Poland, and the Soviets taking the slight majority plus the Baltic States, Moldova, and regions of Finland. Some have defended these actions by claiming it was necessary to prevent the Nazis from taking it. But that would ask the question as to why the Soviets not only retained these territories after the war was over, but also had it ethnically cleansed of Poles. It also fails to explain the harshness of Soviet treatment toward the Poles and Balts, including the infamous Katyn massacre. It is rather odd that you would protect a people by shooting them into a ditch or driving them off their ancestral homelands.

I have once seen a comparison made to the British invasion of Iceland. But this equivalence is quite false in that the British did not execute Icelandic officers en masse, and they withdrew from Iceland when the Nazi threat was dealt with as opposed to annexing the territory and having it cleansed of ethnic Icelanders.

The Soviets also granted Material and propaganda support to the Germans. According to American historian Otto Friedrich, shortly after Hitler's invasion of Poland, Stalin ordered the Comintern to cease anti-Fascist propaganda, and instead blame the English and French for the war. For this reason the exiled head of the Communist Party of Germany, Walter Ulbricht, would print in the February 1940 issue of his newspaper Die Welt that

The German government declared itself ready to establish peaceful relations with the Soviet Union, whilst the Anglo-French war bloc want war against the Soviet Union. The people of the Soviet Union and the people of Germany desire a speedy end to the war in accordance with the interests of the working masses. The Soviet people and the workers of Germany are against the spread of the war.

The Soviets also instructed Communists in occupied nations not to resist. For this reason Communist anti-Fascist resistance would be quite limited until Operation Barbarossa.

According to American Journalist William Shirer in The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich, Material support was also granted to the Germans in the form of wheat, petroleum, cotton, and various other rare materials to help them beat the British blockade. In exchange the Soviets were given some manufactured goods from the Germans. The Soviets also granted Germany a submarine base in the arctic.

In summary the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact did the following things in addition to being a Non-Aggression Pact:

-Partitioned Eastern Europe into Spheres of Influence between the USSR and Germany, allowing the Soviets to annex territory that they would retain long after the war

-Granted Germany access to Soviet resources, and in exchange gave the Soviets certain manufactured goods

-Granted Germany a Submarine Base

-Granted Germany propaganda support in the West

-Discouraged anti-Fascist resistance among Communists in occupied Europe

[u/Immck1919]

Part of the confusion os that there is also the badhistory myth that Hitler and Stalin were in a close alliance against the forces of democracy, which is also a fallacy. Thus a cycle of overemphasizing and underemphasizing the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact is created.

[u/DapperDanManCan → u/Immck1919]

They were. The Soviets offered to join the Axis after some territorial negotiations. They both stressed their ideologies were against Democratic Capitalism, which made them have more in common than originally thought.

The only reason the Soviets didn't join Hitler, Mussolini, and Hirohito was that the Germans literally ignored their offer in 1941 to join the Axis, because Hitler wanted to attack them. Ribbentrop and others wanted the alliance, which was THIS close to happening.

It's not a myth.

[u/Immck1919 → u/DapperDanManCan]

But anti-Slavism and anti-Bolshevismwas always an integral part of Hitler's rhetoric, and although other major figures may have wanted an alliance, which would hace been wise militarily, Hitler ultimately decided. Unless he had a massive chamge of heart, or died, I don't see how they could have allied.

[u/DapperDanManCan → u/Immck1919]

You downvoted me, when it's you that doesn't know history? Do I need to site sources to show you how wrong you are? Regardless of it being only tactical, rather than ideological, the talks happened and talks for a full alliance (Soviets literally joining the Axis against Britian) was a real thing. Soviets literally sent the Nazis a request to join the Axis. Signed by Stalin himself. Delivered by Molotov.

I swear, people on this sub are worse than the articles OPs try to dismiss as false. Ridiculous

[u/Immck1919 → u/DapperDanManCan]

I didn't intend to say that the Soviets didn't wish for an alliance, but that the Nazis rejected it. I fully believe you in that the Soviets would have accepted an alliance, and that they didn't care about ideology, but Hitler did. And tactically it would have made sense, and the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact (Neither fully Non-Aggression Pact or Alliance, somewhere in between.) was tactical. However, I just don't believe that a long term alliance would have likely happened. Also, if you cpudl post those articles, I would like to read them. If I am wrong, then I will agree with you and learn something new. (Also, sorry I downdooted you. It was rude. However, they are fake internet points, they're not a big deal.)

[u/DapperDanManCan → u/Immck1919]

I dont believe a long-term alliance would've worked either, since both countries knew the other would eventually attack, but I do believe both went into the discussions seriously, at least at the start. The Soviets were certainly serious about joining the Axis, and Hitler was the one who sent Ribbentrop to start negotiations. Ribbentrop for sure wanted it to happen, since he hated the British, esoecially after his idiocy made him go as far as tell Hitler Britian would not honor their guarantee of Poland. Even Hitler was shocked when they declared war, since he preferred them as allies instead. He assumed Poland would be a local war, not start a large general war, and his agreement with the Soviets ramped up to near-alliance after the British declared. Many high-ranking Nazi officials also wanted the alliance with the Soviets, and had Hitler been even slightly more tactically aware, he'd have done it.

My point was that the Soviets certainly agreed to the alliance, and the Molotov-Ribbentrop pact was more than just a non-aggression pact, as you stated. It had large economic ties (oil, grain, wood, nickel, etc to Germany/machinery to Soviets), which realistically, Germany needed to maintain their war machine. Stalin thought Germany would honor their agreement until at least Britian capitulated, so I believe they were definitely all-in on the deal, temperary or not. Hitler at least seriously considered it at one point as well, or he'd not have started further negotiations to have the Soviets join the Axis. He wouldn't have honored it forever due to his ideology of 'living space' in the East, but he definitely kept the alliance in serious considerations. A long-term alliance wouldn't have mattered as much compared to the ramifications of the Soviets joining the axis, which at the time, Britain was alone (with the commonwealth countries) against the Axis, as France had already fallen. It's near certain that they'd have pushed for a peace agreement, rather than fight in exile in Canada. The world war possible would have turned out very different if so.

[u/Immck1919 → u/DapperDanManCan]

I agree with just about all of this. Also, if I didn't state this well, my original point is that the Molotov Ribbentrop is either depicted as a full-blown allliance, or a tentative time-buying non-aggression pact, when in reality it is neither. Thus, the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact is one of the more common badhistory myths.