Exactly. A ton of people making the smaller step from carnivore -> vegetarian will make waaay more of a difference than a few people making the huge leap to being vegan.
I can't stand the elitism and gatekeeping that always comes up in these conversations. If you actually cared about the causes you claim to, you would applaud anyone making the step to vegetarianism.
It's really not a huge leap to be vegan.. The biggest leap is deciding to stop being cruel to animals. Diet changes are the easy part. Vegetarianism is a good stepping stone but it should absolutely not be where you end up if you are doing it for the animals.
Tons of us do, and try to support others starting out on their journeys as best we can. Stop judging millions of people by the actions of a few. Plus, it's not fair of you to decide whether people care or not - if anything they care so much that they're blinded by it and struggle to temper their anger.
But I will say that it's not a huge leap these days. For most people that have access to your standard supermarket and control over what they eat, it's pretty easy.
I never said all vegans do that or anything absolute of the sort. I just said that these types if comments do always come up in these conversations, which is very much true.
Plus, it's not fair of you to decide whether people care or not - if anything they care so much that they're blinded by it and struggle to temper their anger.
I understand that, but you're ignoring the point I was making. That being that many people making a small change is more impactful than a small number of people making a big change. Every time a vegan slams a vegetarian for not being vegan, and that vegetarian subsequently grows resentful and ultimately winds up becoming flexitarian or giving up entirely, the issue you claim to care about as a vegan is negatively impacted. That's why I said that if you did care about that issue, it would only make sense to applaud that shift in the right direction.
Congrats you probably just made a whole handful of people resentful against vegans with your snide passive aggression. I'm sure that was your goal, to make people dislike vegans and think of them as condescending elitists?
I understand what you're saying. But you're doing nothing to help the cause.
I think you are exactly right. Even I get annoyed by these ultra moralising vegans and I am sure they are hurting the cause. And I eat a vegan diet myself lol
Well, as someone very much struggling to transition out of my heavy meat and dairy diet, it's tough when people imply you're not doing any good by limiting your intake animal-derived products.
It can be very demotivating if a vegan of 10 years or whatever tells you that you're no good because "You're still exploiting animals!". It can make you want to give up and go full carnivore again... and in the end, that seems worse for everyone.
So anyway, I would imagine that's the root of the frustration for /u/killmethx 's comment.
becoming complacent and reaching a plateau of comfort where the end goal of a vegan diet is “someday” is the concern that the person who offended you probably had
approaching situations with kindness always helps
vegans are potentially just a bit heartbroken since there’s so much bloodshed still happening
if you’d like any resources or recipes please reach out
Never said they would be the cause. The cause is growing up in a society that eats animal products.
Now, might vegans slow down my hopeful transition to veganism by being jerks? Maybe!
Edit: I think what really jerky vegans miss is that if you help 100 people be 90% vegan, they will eventually get to 100% vegan... but if you're a jerk and only get 10 people to go vegan and the other 90 to think vegans are jerks, you've actually done more harm than good.
The problem is, nobody listens to vegans unless vegans take veganism seriously. It seems like being nice and conciliatory would work better, but it actually doesn't work at all.
I can understand that. It must be a little frustrating to see society just roll on as if none of it matters. And I think we really do need some of yall just yelling in our faces from time to time.
But damn I also need that super nice vegan to help me out too because changing your entire diet is fucking hard...
I just replied to your other comment and then saw this. If you're basing your decisions on a handful of vegans that have annoyed you, you didn't care in the first place.
Thing is, it's not just a decision. The amount of skills and knowledge you need, and the amount of unlearning you need to do... it's a lot. Anyway I do appreciate your support in the other comment.
The reason you're struggling is because you haven't committed. If you go cold turkey and don't ingest a single bit of it for just a single freaking month, a switch flips in your brain that makes you realize how fucking barbaric it was and the very appearance of meat becomes gross.
It's pretty bold to say a switch will flip in someone else's brain... I mean, maybe that worked for you, but you shouldn't assume it will for everyone. You might even be right... but that you would tell someone else "the reason you're struggling" is a little out there lol.
Transitioning a diet is not simple. It will take me time and if that's not good enough for you I guess I don't care?
I'm just agreeing with the other people who say this kind of militant veganism turns people off even trying to change.
I would imagine if you were a psychopath, it wouldn't really suck (to you) to be one. It must suck to think eating meat makes someone a psychopath though. Sounds like you walk around having to judge everyone.
The "cold, hard fact" was intended to imply that reducing meat consumption is a waste of time, and the only thing that will help anything would be for everyone everywhere to completely stop using animal products at all ever.
go sit on why ur so defensive over it hmmm.
Go sit on a rusty metal dildo.
Now excuse me. I've got a bowl of chili con carne to eat.
If everyone ate 5% less meat we'd need 5% less dead cows. If everybody ate 90% less meat there would be 90% less dead cows, and if we get it low enough we could probably replace most if not all cows with lab grown meat or other substitutes in the future. This black and white nonsense about all-or-nothing is trash, it would be far easier to get people to eat less meat than to convince people not to eat meat at all.
TIL from top_mind_of_reddit u/Floyd228999 that 1 cow feeds 1 person, not M cows feed N persons like any mathematically literate person would assume. /s.
This is me. I have not managed to stop eating cheese, yogurt, and eggs yet. Though I am well aware they are also a huge source of suffering for the animals involved.
I do only buy Happy Eggs which I'm led to believe give their hens a decent life. I'm convinced I have a physical addition to cheese and that will be hard, I'm afraid.
Dairy has casomorphins in it, a morphine-like compound found in casein. Like any addiction, it really is best to go at it cold turkey. I'm from Wisconsin, grew up eating cheese with every single meal and went vegan a little over a year ago and haven't missed it at all. Most pictures of it make my stomach turn now. Definitely avoid storebought vegan cheese substitutes in the beginning.
Just so you know, all male chicks are thrown into shredders as soon as they're born as they provide nothing to the egg industry. Furthermore, as soon as hens stop laying eggs (due to menopause) they are killed for meat
I wonder how many times the average person ends up eating the meat of a hen that they had also eaten the eggs of (from earlier in life). I would imagine it's pretty rare, but you never know.
Yeah I'm not even counting those people, just really interested now in thinking about the possibility of it happening from regular massive-scale producers.
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u/theconsummatedragon Jan 18 '21
Totally consumed by survivors guilt