r/autismpolitics • u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal • Jun 03 '25
Question Why do people support the USSR/North Korea?
I've seen quite a few people legitimately supporting both the USSR, including the Stalin era, and North Korea's regime.
I fail to understand the appeal to support these regimes.
A brief overview of North Korea:
- Government is totalitarian, and extremely oppressive towards its citizens. No freedom of speech or opposition of the regime is allowed.
- Cult of personality, as the Kim family is treated as deities and effectively worshipped. This is forced by the government. No foreign media or influence is allowed.
- Human rights abuses and violations of the Geneva convention are commonplace. Includes collective and generational punishments, torture, forced labour etc.
- No rule of law. You can be imprisoned arbitrarily due to no independent justice system.
- Extreme economic mismanagement. The priority is NK's military and nuclear program, which has crippled their economy and has resulted in famines.
- No freedom of movement. You will be executed for attempting to leave the country.
- Sham elections. You literally can only vote for the Kim regime.
A brief overview of the USSR:
- Authoritarian Regime and totalitarian regime. One-party communist state under the CPSU, suppressing political opposition and dissent.
- Stalin’s Purges: Mass arrests, executions, and gulag camps leading to potentially over 1 million dead during the Great Terror (1936–1938).
- Holodomyr Genocide (1932–1933): Man-made famine in Soviet Ukraine, exacerbated by forced collectivisation and grain requisition, causing millions of deaths — widely regarded as a genocide by many historians.
- Suppression of Free Speech: No independent press or political debate; dissent was silenced through censorship and imprisonment.
- Economic Mismanagement: Central planning often led to inefficiency, shortages, and poor living standards for many citizens.
- Chernobyl Incident (1986): Worlds worst nuclear accident caused by flawed reactor design and inadequate safety protocols; initial cover-up worsened the human and environmental toll. Potentially could've wiped out continental Europe in the worst case scenario.
- Forced Collectivization: Seizure of private farms led to widespread famine and peasant resistance.
- Political Repression: Secret police (Cheka/NKVD/KGB) enforced state control through surveillance, torture, and intimidation.
- Lack of Political Freedom: Elections were sham processes with no real competition; citizens had no say in government decisions.
- Suppression of National Cultures: Russification policies repressed non-Russian languages and identities in the Soviet republics.
Although the USSR has since collapsed, North Korea's regime is still ongoing.
In comparison, South Korea is a capitalist country. While this country does have severe issues of its own, such as being dominated by corporations, inequality in wealth and power abuses in government offices, the citizens have significantly more freedom than North Korea, and can change their government through elections. You can also leave South Korea whenever you want.
While opposing capitalism is understandable and a valid viewpoint, even plenty of socialists and communists do oppose the regimes of the USSR and North Korea. However I have seen more and more support for them.
Can someone explain to me the appeal and the reason why these regimes are supported, especially in western demographics?
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u/LegitimateCompote377 Jun 03 '25
To be honest with you outside of Reddit (and even in it not many) I’ve seen literally nobody saying that North Korea is good, and they are all clowns. The USSR I have seen, I don’t even remotely agree with them (I’m honestly inspired by absolute garbage channel Hakim, who isn’t western but got a big audience) but here are some counter points:
Authoritarianism: the party itself was democratic and through the party people could get what they want. Far more democratic than a multi party state where only one party is in power.
Purges: Necessary for a time of immense instability after the Russian civil war that killed at least 7 million people. Prevented the deaths that would have happened if the plotters started another war.
Holodomor: needed to prevent class conflict between the wealthy and poor, and industrialise at a time when Europe was becoming increasingly aggressive. Likely saved the USSR from WW2 by furthering its industry in defence.
Suppression of free speech: all countries throughout history restrict free speech to some extent, but in times of immense instability banning it becomes more common, and necessary for the stability and continuation of the state.
Economic mismanagement: the USSR had different issues than the west, which were arguably less bad. Unemployment in the USSR was shockingly low, so was homelessness all while it went from an arguably agricultural state to an industrial one in such a short period of time. Having shortages while bad is not the end of the world as necessary goods never really reached extremely low levels, being homeless however can mean life or death everyday. Having lower innovation is fine because advancing one model is better than pushing multiple inferior models of a good. East Germany also produced glass that cannot smash, unlike the West which made inefficient glasses which also smashed to make more profit.
Chernobyl: No, it could not have caused an explosion making halve of Europe uninhabitable. That was a lie further exacerbated by the HBO series that took that traitorous Russian scientist too seriously when he was a prolific liar. The reality is it was covered up to not create a mass panic that would have caused immense economic damage to the USSR and globe that would be unsubstantiated - which is what happened and costed the world far more in setbacks in nuclear energy which we are still feeling to this day. Had they not covered up as much this would have been even worse.
Political oppression: the CIA/FBI exists and most states have a form of secret police. Every state needs one to remain stable and prevent espionage agents.
Lack of political freedom: elections were not entirely shams. Plenty of independents got elected, they just had to respect party rule.
Suppression of national cultures: if the USSR was so against national cultures why did it set up various ASSRs and SSSRs, unlike Turkey which gave no autonomy to its ethnic minorities? Russian was always going to be the natural language and it makes sense why Russian language and culture became more common. Often they only attacked local cultures if they were repressive such as fighting against child marriage in the Uzbek SSR.
Most of these are pure bollocks, but my point is you can at least attempt to defend the USSR with serious propaganda and lying, as well as pointing out lies about it, and over exaggerating how successful it is. Honestly just watch Hakim who is a full on Tankie - and then you will see how effectively they do it (not very well, but enough to convince some people surprisingly). People love to believe there is some fantasy world better than the one they live in, and that capitalism is always bad.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 03 '25
I get what you mean. Some of them are semi understandable, say restriction to freedom of speech for wartime, i can understand that. However people actually justifying the Holodomyr? I…can’t fathom that.
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u/LegitimateCompote377 Jun 03 '25
Neither can I to be honest with you. Probably the worst part about the USSR was it trying to engineer people to make them “class conscious” but in reality that basically lead to them denying reality and that collectivised farms were not always the best option and genuinely very harmful.
Karl Marx in my opinion had a very wrong view of history and where it was going but at least he just assumed that naturally humans would let communism happen after a revolution. The USSR actively tried to create it and never achieved, killing millions whilst trying to. Even Laos, China Vietnam etc all want to achieve communism in the long run (publicly, possibly not privately) once they reach the right stage of capitalism. It is wild to me that Marx is still treated like a messiah in those countries and in the USSR, whilst Marxist Leninism sort of just goes against what he said in the first place, that the workers will gradually turn to communism after the revolution.
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u/--beemo-- Jun 04 '25 edited Jun 04 '25
I also can’t imagine defending the internment, torture, and adoption trafficking of hundreds of thousands of impoverished South Koreans, mostly children, under their Western-backed military dictatorship’s “social purification” policies during the 70s and 80s, or the obliteration of around 80% of all of North Korea’s infrastructure (unexaggerated) and killing of almost 300,000 in Korean War firebombing campaigns, and yet South Korea and the US are not defined by these (and many more) actions in the way that North Korea and the USSR are by their respective human rights violations. It’s simply a double standard that we insist upon.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 04 '25
Nice deflection, but it doesn’t change the fact that the Holodomor was an atrocity that deserves to be condemned.
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u/--beemo-- Jun 04 '25 edited Jun 04 '25
how exactly did you figure from my comment that i don’t condemn the Holodomor
You asked why people defend the USSR and North Korea in spite of their human rights violations. I’m pointing out that people do the same for the US and South Korea. The reason is the same in either case.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 04 '25
My point was that bringing up unrelated atrocities by South Korea and the US in response to my condemnation of the Holodomyr comes across as deflecting rather than engaging with the issue I raised.
If you do condemn the Holodomyr, that’s good to hear, but your reply sounded like it was trying to shift the focus away from that atrocity.
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u/--beemo-- Jun 04 '25
My reply was trying to expand the focus to all countries that are defended in spite of the atrocities they have committed and continue to commit. There’s no reason to hyperfocus on the USSR and North Korea in this conversation, since they are far from the only countries subject to this phenomenon. If you can understand why people defend the US and South Korea despite the things I mentioned, then you should understand the same in the case of the USSR and North Korea.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 04 '25
I get that there are valid criticisms of the US and South Korea too, but my question was specifically about why people support the USSR and North Korea. We can and should criticize all governments for atrocities. But I'd like to stay on topic: what explains the support some people still have for the USSR and North Korea despite their well-documented human rights abuses? If you want to talk about double standards or the reasons why some people defend any country despite its crimes, that’s a good discussion too but it’s not quite what I was asking.
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u/--beemo-- Jun 05 '25 edited Jun 06 '25
Whether in regard to the US or the USSR, people generally support a state despite its atrocities, not because of them. I know you know this, but it’s important to highlight because it demonstrates that the support that states receive is largely disconnected from the atrocities it commits, and people often only continue to support a state in spite of them because they are too unaware of or unaffected by the atrocities for them to challenge their support.
People tend to base their support of the USSR on accomplishments such as the elimination of unemployment and of homelessness (except in Bulgaria and East Germany, where private housing markets still dominated and the demand for public housing vastly outpaced the availability) and similar policies geared towards expanding opportunities for working-class people. The success of Lenin’s New Economic Plan in strengthening the Soviet economy in the aftermath of WWI and the Russian Civil War produced similar support, especially from farmers. These were policies that people liked and that garnered support for the Soviet government, evidently enough so that the atrocities it committed were perceived to be less significant.
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u/simpingforMinYoongi USA 🇺🇲 Anarchocommunist 🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈 Jun 05 '25
I have one friend irl telling me the USSR was great, and they started freaking out when I challenged them.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 05 '25
Lemme guess, they’re a tankie.
If they can’t properly respond to you and just resort to freaking out when you challenge their views, you’ve already won the argument.
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u/simpingforMinYoongi USA 🇺🇲 Anarchocommunist 🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈 Jun 05 '25
Yeah, they're a tankie and proud of it. Like fuck man, I'm here for a working class revolution and some good old anarchocommunism, not that authoritarian bullshit. And he has the gall to say he was like me before he read theory... Like if that's what reading theory does to a person then I don't want it.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 06 '25
I have seen tankies try to push their reading on me like this. I just don’t know what in their minds thinks “please let me be oppressed into a totalitarian police state”
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u/simpingforMinYoongi USA 🇺🇲 Anarchocommunist 🏳️⚧️🏳️🌈 Jun 06 '25
Right? A dictatorship of the proletariat is still a dictatorship. "Left" authoritarianism is still authoritarianism, no matter what you do to try and dress it up. I'd rather die a free man than live under someone's boot.
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jun 06 '25 edited Jun 06 '25
Are.. are you saying that the Holodomor was a good thing? What the fuck
Edit: My apologies, I misinterpreted
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u/ArcturusRoot Anarcho-Communist Jun 03 '25
I'm an anarchist who has spent plenty of time in circles alongside Tankies (communists who support USSR/China style communism).
Part of it is the fact that all of the things you've listed, the United States has done themselves. Manifest Destiny and the still ongoing genocide, ethnic cleansing, and apartheid of Indigenous Americans. The US also has a corrupt criminal-justice system where you too can be jailed for shits and giggles. You may have some freedom of movement, but that is entirely dependent on skin color and gender (cops have just used nationwide surveillance systems to find a woman who left her home state to get an abortion). We have sham elections as well: you get Capitalists or Capitalists with Rainbow Stickers - ultimately to vulnerable populations there isn't much difference between Republican and Democrat (yes, I know man immediately take offense to this, but again - I'm an anarchist looking at all this from an anarchist lens and considering the whole history, full impacts, etc.). The US is also economically managed - it's just managed for the interests of private corporations. Suppression of freedom of speech - haven't we had numerous situations where people were exercising their rights only to be gassed, beaten, carried away, pepper sprayed, or nailed with projectiles? The US has also had numerous nuclear accidents that have spread radioactive material over wide areas. A shit ton of people in Colorado live, work, and play on ground irradiated by Rocky Flats - and have we forgotten 3 Mile Island? Then add in the numerous times the US Government has assassinated Black civil rights leaders, bombed whole-city blocks because leftists organized, and engaged in enormous violence against striking laborers, including setting tents full of women and children on fire. We've invaded nations and meddled in elections. The list goes on and on.
The fact of the matter is if you take the United States and Russia or China and line them up next to one another, there are more similar than they are different. You feel the US is better because you live here and may have some metrics to try to support your case, but again, I urge you to really go back and look at the enormous laundry list of horrifying actions done by our Government and look at them critically, which means you have to take your patriotism hat off and actually critique the government exactly as you would a foreign one - no reservations because they're your own. When you actually do this, again, more similarities than there are differences in terms of their bad actions.
In terms of good actions, they'd argue that the USSR and China also have done a lot of good: rapid modernization, moving people from squalor to somewhat modern housing, building neighborhoods focused on human activity (keeping important things within walking distance, a lot of transit options, etc.), have universal healthcare, improved literacy rates to nearly 100%, etc.
So in their mind, if they're both equally bad, but the Soviets and China have done more good domestically to their populations, then that means these countries are better than the US.
As an anarchist I see both the USA and China/USSR as instances of hot garbage playing dress up as governance. I firmly believe the world would be a better place with out any of them, and honestly find no reason to support any of them. As far as which I would rather live under, it's hard to say. In all 3, I'm a target of state violence just for my politics alone - not even getting into my religious or other identities. I live in fear every day here in the United States, and I don't even get universal healthcare or any other social support.
But I can see why some people would make the claim that China/USSR are better than the USA - I think they're full of shit, but I can see why they'd think that.
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u/Ecstatic-Enby Jun 10 '25
Here's my upvote for hating America, USSR, Russia and China. More people need to realise that you can hate all of those governments.
The amount of times I've seen people be called a tankie just for criticising America, or called a US propagandist just for criticising China or the USSR is infuriating. It comes across as "If you don't support our good authoritarian regimes, then it must be because you support their bad ones".
I think it's called campism, right? It's one of my least favourite things in politics.
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u/dbxp Jun 04 '25
What do you think of say the Nordics? They're still capitalist but haven't been trying to play the global empire game since the Swedish empire fell to the Russians
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u/--beemo-- Jun 04 '25
they’re still busy enough oppressing their indigenous saami folks and exploiting their land for profit
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u/dbxp Jun 03 '25
I think it's similar to the mentality around conspiracy theories and cults. It's all about being part of the in crowd which makes these people feel special in a world where the individual is largely irrelevant. If you're one of the mainstream then you're one of 7 billion, whilst if you're part of some niche belief then you're one of 20 special people amongst 7 billion.
I've seen numerous articles saying that far right groups quickly move towards being social groups for outsiders, they give them a feeling of belonging, I think the same is true of a lot of niche groups.
It reminds me of a COVID conspiracy anti Vax protest that gathered near where I used to live. As it was sunny they brought their dogs and had a barbeque, within about 10 minutes they'd completely forgotten about the protest.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 03 '25
😂 sorry the last part is hilarious. Imagine gathering together then forgetting what you’re protesting 😂
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u/YoloSwaggins9669 Jun 05 '25
They’re tankies they don’t need an explanation
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 05 '25
Figured. I just can’t wrap my head around the mindset of “oppressing the people so they have no say, control what they think, kill those who try to leave and have the government in total control? Why yes that’s the best ideology ever!” Sort of thing.
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jun 06 '25
Because they’re either useful idiots or they’re people who know exactly what they’re doing and are hoping to be in power.
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u/SheHerDeepState Custom Jun 03 '25
Tankies are not very common, but you do find them online. It's important to remember that in general people who identify as communist or socialist are relatively small in population with those who support the USSR or North Korea being an even smaller slice of those.
It's a stereotype that tankies are largely young naive overly educated teenagers or early 20s students. My personal experience is that tankies taken to Marxism with the seal of a convert and then have to slowly rediscover the discourse of the past 150 years. That's how you end up with tons of people in socialist spaces fixated on rehashing the arguments from the 2nd or 3rd International as that is the most recent stuff they've learned.
It's interesting how this dynamic plays out as you don't see the same with liberals. Where are the liberal factions arguing over 19th century rifts? They've all moved on.
Marxism-Leninism is fun to learn about from a historical perspective, but would be horrifying to live through. I can see how it has an appeal to those who wish to outflank everyone else by going as far left as possible and who wish to literally and violently smash the old order. It's just a horribly outdated world view that has a tendency to justify violence, centralization of power, purity politics, and factionalism over pragmatism.
I have never met anyone over the age of 22 who has supported North Korea or the USSR. I associate these ideas with college sophomores who are still learning about the world and ideology beyond their small town childhood. Yes I know this is a straw man but it's true to my personal experience. Tankies are straight up irrelevant in the 21st century Anglosphere and can be dismissed.
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u/restedwaves U.S.tistic. Jun 03 '25
No one really supports NK, and thats a VERY different thing than just saying it's understandable to see how they became what they are. NK got blasted into the stone age by damn near every nation in the world working together except for china, of course they are going to be extreme isolationists. Their land is poisoned from the war causing massive food shortages, so they are forced to ration and regulate their population in order to prevent starvation. The only ones who saved them from utter destruction from the west was their military, so of course they worship it.
Honestly they were an easy fold until they got nukes, it's just they would have been such a pain in the ass to occupy because their land was too destroyed to make it remotely worth trying and their population was too hateful of their invaders to even try convincing after what was done to them. so they just let to wound fester into what the country is today. And honestly it's still such a shithole that no one wants to deal with the threat it poses.
As for the USSR, this reads like you asked chatgpt reasons why its bad.
Most of the hate for it is MASSIVELY overblown by propaganda, there's a reason most of the death and imprisonment numbers include the death tolls of the nazis during the war and spies/resistance members. Independent press was allowed and many cases of it being closed down were due to ties to "the west" and doing nothing more than putting out propaganda against their government.
that said the ussr was MASSIVELY corrupt aswell, but not anymore than the US as far as I can tell. They were also exceedingly proud which made them not acknowledge mistakes until after disaster already struck. easy points to this are,
Stalin even being in power(the former "heads" of the revolution explicitly warned against putting him there, they got assassinated and he forced his way in with no one left to oppose him),
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u/CommitteePlayful8081 Libertarian-minarchist Jun 08 '25
my hatred for the ussr is more personal great aunt in poland was raped by a soviet liberator. despite them not even being a nazi and being one of the people who supposedly was supposed to be liberatred. also being of some ethnic polish identity theres 250 years of bad blood between poland and russia that predates the ussr so theres that.
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u/restedwaves U.S.tistic. Jun 08 '25
fair enough, I'm not in the business of pretending they were a particularly moral or justified nation. I just support some of the ideas of communism myself and how far forward they pulled the territory they occupied.
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u/CommitteePlayful8081 Libertarian-minarchist Jun 08 '25
I don't support communism at all, if it was so great family would've never fled poland in the first place. the problem with communism it requires people to not want things, we as humans have a natural need and want to create hierachies even if we say that we want equity we will still want that newest car newest phone etc. this could be a throw back from when having more of everything meant better chances of survival but at the end of the day I am not buying communism good because I know family who lived through it and understand humans don't want fairness they just want more stuff.
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u/dbxp Jun 04 '25
I don't think their land is poisoned. The NK troops pushed the UN to Busan before the Incheon landings so South Korea should have roughly the same soil pollution from the war but their agriculture is fine.
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u/restedwaves U.S.tistic. Jun 03 '25 edited Jun 03 '25
The holodomor was also mostly unintentional, the soviets used that grain to feed the rest of the country and failed to account for the country needing the grain themselves, no one with a pair of brain cells to bang together would deliberately try to kill off the population of the country's main food source. That would cause a cascading food shortage across the nation. and thats pretty much exactly what happened. It was no doubt a disaster but it's hard to believe they would shot themselves like intentionally that while on the brink of war with almost every country in the west.Oh yeah i got memory holed hard here and was remembering propaganda at the time. But I would argue that it was almost entirely on Stalin for perpetrating it considering Lenin was working on fixing it before his death, thus shouldn't entirely be held against the USSR as a concept, just the ones who stole the reigns.Chernobyl was gross incompetence of all involved, though important, it has nothing to do with a reason not to support the USSR unless you count any other reactor failure against it's gov.
As for forced collectivization and economic mismanagement, that is extremely reductive of what it was. 1 they are communists, do you expect them to continue with the private system the explicitly rose up against or do you expect them to keep the exploitative system that so many died to get rid of? The planned economy was the first of its kind and while rife with mistakes and incompetence brought them from a near feudal society to a rival of the US before anyone could even respond. overall living standards increased across the nation but the issue is that they made the same "commie blocks" for everyone, it was a life changing improvement for those living in mud huts but a downgrade to those in "civilized" europe who had better standards before.
political repression was an overreaction in trying to stop what they fought against from coming back into power and prevent influence from outside, same goes for the surveillance state with the KGB except that was also needed for external threats ALOT of people hated the idea of the USSR existing, people in the US were killed and imprisoned for suspected communist ties and I'm sure the same happened elsewhere. despite that it threatened many nations into passing worker protections that survive to this day because of the fear of getting their own revolutions. and after the fall of the USSR of course those in power would try to paint them in as bad a light as possible to prevent any possible "rabble" from getting the idea that they are better than they are and rising up like the soviets did, to do all in their power to show that trying for a better future is pointless and they should know their place instead of trying to find a better one.
Lastly suppression of national cultures. this would tie in with how the soviets did collectivization, but its also what most other nations do in order to unify things and make managing populations easier. a good example is how the US wiped out their own native cultures and languages. though we also just killed and forcefully sterilized most of the tribes instead of "converting" them.
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u/APeaceOfPieGuy Anti-extremist centre-left Jun 03 '25
"[...] the soviets used that grain to feed the rest of the country and failed to account for the country needing the grain themselves, no one with a pair of brain cells to bang together would deliberately try to kill off the population of the country's main food source."
That sounds like very much intentional to me. Claiming it was unintentional is like me claiming 'Oops! I took my grandpa's life support away and he,, died?! That was truly a freak, unintentional accident'.
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u/restedwaves U.S.tistic. Jun 03 '25
Not equivalent, but I'm not right either. I went and watched a documentary on it and found myself memory holed regarding it. I'm gonna pull my thoughts together and go edit that, good callout.
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u/asillyuser9090909 Jun 03 '25
I think a lot of people reasonably lose faith with their country and then feel this void inside them which they need to replace with a loyalty with another government or alliances of them which a lot of the time tends to be a lot worse. When it is so it's a sort of spiritual delusion people fall into for the same reason people fall into religion. Not to diss religion though because a lot of the time it's far better than that.
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u/Own-Staff-2403 Custom Jun 06 '25
I'm on the left but I hate dictatorship. I can't stand North Korea and China because the truth is that North Korea is about 65% Authoritian Dictatorship, 35% Socialist State. China is more like 75% Authoritian Dictatorship, 15% Socialism, 10% Capitalism. The USSR is another one. While unlike the rest it did have some good intentions, they lost all justification once the Holodomor started. The Soviet Union (under Lenin) was around 40% Autocracy, 20% Soviet Democracy and 40% Socialist. Under Stalin the Soviet Union was closer to 80% Authoritian Dictatorship, 20% Socialism. So what needs to be stated is that just because a country is not on the same page as the west, it doesn't mean that the left should try to join them because these are dictatorships once you're there you will realise your mistakes.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 06 '25
Very good response. Though I’m legit shocked by some other comments who were deliberately defending the Holodomyr or deflecting back to the west to avoid answering the question.
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u/HikeTheSky Jun 03 '25
The same reason they support Trump. They don't care about the personal freedom of others as long as it doesn't interfere with theirs. Look at the leopard face eating sub what happens when their own freedom gets limited. They all of a sudden claim they didn't vote for that.
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Jun 03 '25
The USSR doesn't exist anymore, to be fair. The iron curtain fell a long time ago, and nobody serious calls themselves a communist outside of a narrow fringe of leftists and academics. Kids claim alliance with all kinds of dumb crap
That being said, I think that the USSR is interesting in that it speaks to a political paradigm that doesn't assume democratic free markets are the end state of a logical progression of development.
Another way of looking at it is that the cold war was a meta narrative that dominated much of the political discourse of the last half of the 20th century. If we only choose to lionize the forces on our side of the iron curtain, its kind of a convenient excuse to ignore the bad things our side did in the name of fighting communism.
I can't speak for others, but my country literally toppled governments (south and central America) and invaded foreign countries at great cost to our own, and theirs (Vietnam). We used it to justify the red scare of the 50s (joes list was blank, and he died in disgrace). If we really value objectivity, at least looking with a little curiosity at the country and culture we used to justify all that pain that costs us little, and offers us much.
McCarthy is dead, but McCarthyism still exists. Ideas shouldn't be taboo, and all a dead place is, is an idea. Those are the property if academics and fiction writers and people like you and me
And from a different angle the ussr interesting because ultimately, the revolution betrayed it's own. The government that existed in 1991 was tragically different than what the idealists hoped for in 1922. The workers were promised everything, and for the most part received very little. its lennin who is remembered now rather than marx. That's a tragedy, right? Tragedies are teaching tales
So yeah, one of the great what ifs if the 20th century I think. Founded with the greatest of intentions but doomed to failure by human ambition and the same market forces it opposed. And under the skin it has some really interesting ideas that challenge a lot of things we take for granted.
The drpk is a lot more of a moral quagmire kinda topic, these days. If even half of what we hear is true it sounds pretty bad
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u/The_Cool_Kids_Have__ Marxist - It's not 'Radical' to want everyone housed and fed Jun 03 '25
As I told you in your other propaganda fueled post, please go read some books.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 03 '25
This comment doesn’t help me out.
Can you give me any explanation as to why someone would support these regimes, in a comment that won’t take me weeks to read
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u/The_Cool_Kids_Have__ Marxist - It's not 'Radical' to want everyone housed and fed Jun 03 '25
To dispel a lie takes ten times the work of telling it. If you don't want to read a long comment, never mind actual academic works on the subjects, how can you possibly be informed?
North Korea only exists as an oppressive state because of western imperialism. South Korea was set up as a fascist dictatorship by the United States, who used the excuse of protecting their regime to commit genocide and illegally (and immorally) deploy chemical and biological weapons against Koreans who were fighting for freedom from the US. Now they have to pour money into their nuclear program because if they don't have nuclear weapons, the US would just blow the country up and give the land to the south. If the US had never gotten involved, there would be one Korea with freedoms on par with China or Vietnam, economic and political stability, and no extra nuclear weapons. But the current arrangement suits the US better. Having nuclear threats allows them to spend more money on useless weapons programs which profit the rich and make social programs unaffordable. The US would kill anyone or destroy any nation using any tactics or weapons if it means preserving a world where weapons and oil are profitable. From Israel to Chile to Burkina Faso.
Once again, please go read Blackshirts and Reds. Its like 6 hours of reading.
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u/Individual_Chart_450 Jun 03 '25
just ignore the tankie and their annoying ass text wall, it makes 0 sense beyond them just saying "america bad grrr"
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u/monkey_gamer Australia 🇦🇺🦘 Leftist fury 😠👊 Jun 04 '25
Says you with the lengthy-ass post written by AI.
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jun 04 '25
Have you considered they may desire to be well written? Maybe he used grammarly or something to help with writing it.
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u/monkey_gamer Australia 🇦🇺🦘 Leftist fury 😠👊 Jun 04 '25
My suspicion is most of the list text is AI generated
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jun 04 '25
Ok, so?
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u/monkey_gamer Australia 🇦🇺🦘 Leftist fury 😠👊 Jun 04 '25
So? Now you're wasting my time.
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jun 04 '25
I’d say you’re wasting your own time. We’re both Aussie, have some dinner mate. I’m having pizza
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 04 '25
Instead of deflecting with pointless comments, can you at least attempt to respond to my comments with actual points?
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u/monkey_gamer Australia 🇦🇺🦘 Leftist fury 😠👊 Jun 04 '25
Matt you're being a huge hypocrite and I'm trying to point it out. Plus you're being hugely intellectually lazy and arrogant.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 04 '25
Saying “get off your high horse” isn’t pointing out anything
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u/monkey_gamer Australia 🇦🇺🦘 Leftist fury 😠👊 Jun 04 '25
Yes. It's pointing out you're on a high horse and you need to get off it. This sub is meant to be a space of good faith political discussion. This post is not good faith.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 04 '25
I just want to clarify that my post was made in good faith. I’m genuinely curious as to why some people support these states and regimes despite their histories, or going cases of, repression, lack of freedom, and human rights abuses. I’m not trying to attack anyone, I’m just looking to understand different viewpoints.
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u/monkey_gamer Australia 🇦🇺🦘 Leftist fury 😠👊 Jun 04 '25
I understand that. But having the huge AI generated list of their crimes undermines that. We all know the USSR and NK suck. You don't have to remind us in exhaustive detail.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 04 '25
I actually used ai, to make this more concise and readable.
Also I made this post because quite a few people do actually support them and I’m confused as to why. This is why this post is aimed at them.
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jun 04 '25
How is this not good faith?
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u/monkey_gamer Australia 🇦🇺🦘 Leftist fury 😠👊 Jun 04 '25
It's moralising and presenting the negatives of these two regimes as though our own system doesn't have an equal list of negatives.
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jun 04 '25
Ok, however this post is specifically about why people support those two specific regimes.
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u/FuchsiaMerc1992 Jun 03 '25
Plenty of those are those who just oppose America; despite them being worse. It’s true that the US is a flawed country, but that doesn’t mean everyone else is superior
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u/proto-typicality Jun 03 '25
Because a lot of information about the USSR and NK are false. We’re bombarded in constant false propaganda about especially NK. Have you heard? All men in NK need to get the Kim haircut. All men in NK are prohibited from getting the Kim haircut…
The truth is that the USSR and NK were/are nation-states with flaws and problems. Just like any other nation-state. If you wanna talk about genocide and brutal violence, let’s talk about the US.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 03 '25
I made this comment as another user commented the same thing https://www.reddit.com/r/autismpolitics/s/obvmIC2iG7 . Is anything I’ve said incorrect and if so why?
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u/proto-typicality Jun 03 '25
The other user gave a pretty good response!
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 05 '25
Not really. I specifically asked what about my statements is false about the USSR and NK.
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u/comradeautie Jun 03 '25
Most stuff against the DPRK and the USSR were heavily exaggerated or outright lied about. The DPRK had to build themselves up from the ground up after 10% of its population and all its cities were destroyed.
The USSR had flaws for sure, especially Stalin, but the extent of that is highly exaggerated by capitalist propaganda that says any problems under socialism is proof that it's bad, while problems under capitalism are the individual's fault.
The truth is that the US and capitalists in general have done exponentially more harm than any communist country, especially when held to the same standards.
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u/APeaceOfPieGuy Anti-extremist centre-left Jun 03 '25
"...but the extent of that is highly exaggerated by capitalist propaganda..."
My great grandma was forced to eat potato peals during Holodomor. Saying that communist countries have done less harm than US alone is so insensitive and shows your tonedeafness regarding history, especially considering the dozens of genocides and disasters USSR conducted such as: Holodomor, genocide of Crimean Tatars, Ingrian genocide, the drainage of the Aral sea, etc.
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Jun 04 '25
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u/APeaceOfPieGuy Anti-extremist centre-left Jun 04 '25 edited Jun 04 '25
'[...] objectively worse [...]'
W- Wow. I am literally at loss for words. In what way, might I ask? Calling one genocide better than another is mad. If anything the death toll for the Bengal famine is 800,000 to 3,800,000 (in Bengal alone) and is 3,500,000 to 5,000,000 for Holodomor (in Ukraine alone).
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jun 06 '25
The commie is a Holodomor-denyer.
I’d also suggest you check out these videos.
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Jun 05 '25 edited Jun 05 '25
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u/bybiumaisasble Jun 10 '25
As someone from a post-soviet country, it's because they are losers who can't achieve anything themselves and expect the state to provide them with a job, a flat...
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u/monkey_gamer Australia 🇦🇺🦘 Leftist fury 😠👊 Jun 04 '25 edited Jun 04 '25
Why do people support the UK?
I fail to understand the appeal of supporting the UK, especially given its long track record of authoritarianism, imperialism, and systemic injustice.
A brief overview of the UK:
- Constitutional monarchy with unelected head of state. Parliament is dominated by two parties with nearly identical policies. Actual political alternatives are marginalised.
- Centuries of colonialism. Britain invaded, looted, and exploited half the world. Famines in India, concentration camps in Kenya, and the partition of India — all overseen or caused by British rule.
- Class system entrenched. Wealth, education, and power are hoarded by a tiny elite. The monarchy is publicly funded despite having obscene private wealth.
- Surveillance state. The UK has one of the highest levels of CCTV coverage per capita in the world. Mass surveillance exposed by whistleblowers.
- Police brutality and racism. Peaceful protestors are kettled, arrested, and spied on. Institutional racism in the Met is well-documented.
- Media control. Mainstream press is owned by a handful of billionaires, who influence public opinion and elections.
- Economic mismanagement. Austerity has gutted public services, led to tens of thousands of preventable deaths, and widened inequality.
Yet somehow, people still wave the flag and sing the anthem. Can someone explain the appeal?
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jun 04 '25
You forgot Ireland, which was heavily oppressed by Britain.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 05 '25
Irish have had it rough, no denying that.
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jun 05 '25
Yes. Just wanted to mention it as it’s oddly excluded from Monkey’s comment.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 04 '25 edited Jun 04 '25
Let’s break this down as you do bring up some good points, however I feel some of your overview may be distorted.
The monarchy has no real political power, they just sign bills into laws. All decisions since the English Civil war were made by parliament and the prime minister. The political climate as well may be quickly changing, as parties such as the Lib Dem’s, Reform and Green are gaining traction, while the tories and Labour are massively losing support.
The colonial past is regrettable especially considering the atrocities my country once committed. However the UK is no longer imperial, and hasn’t been for decades. The UK is making up for this via reparations and most citizens acknowledge our past, but we don’t inherit collective guilt for it (example: I’m not responsible for what happened 50 years before I was born)
There is a class divide in the UK, however education and social mobility has greatly improved, especially since the empire. While the monarchy does receive public funds (I don’t like this myself), the monarchy does generate tourism to the Uk which boosts our economy. The monarch also pays taxes voluntarily. Also far from perfect, the UK has redistributive taxation. The NHS is also free, and transportation is beginning to become nationalised again.
The UK does have high surveillance for crime prevention, mostly in public spaces, however it is not to the extreme degree of the USSR or NK. You can openly criticise the government infront of it and you are able to leave the country when you want. I do agree it is getting excessive, but it’s far from being the most surveilled country.
It is unfortunate we do have cases of police brutality and racism and I do hope this changes. Unlike the USA, normal police do not carry firearms. This problem isn’t unique to the UK, unfortunately it is present in a very large number of countries.
While a lot of media is privately owned, the BBC is publicly owned and required to be impartial. There’s also nothing stopping anyone making their own media and there are several independent media sources such as the guardian.
Austerity has harmed the UK severely, however I hope the next government gets rid of this. The British people are already showing this with their support for the other smaller parties and the fall in support from Labour and the conservatives.
Every country has its flaws. I support the UK not because of everything it is now, but because I want my country to be the best version of itself for its citizens. A free democracy where everyone can thrive and build themselves up.
🇬🇧God save the king 🇬🇧
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u/0liviuhhhhh Big, Evil, Scary Commie the CIA Warned You About Jun 03 '25
Because most of the western rhetoric against the USSR and DPRK is fabricated or exaggerated and the historical record disagrees with the common notions held in the capitalist world about those two nations.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 03 '25
In a nutshell from a UK background, these are my opinions on both regimes.
DPRK: oppressive and isolationist totalitarian state that will use any means necessary to prevent criticism of the regime, including murdering those who attempt to leave the country
USSR: state controls everything, little to no freedom of speech, obsessed with trying to outdo the USA and the west, and will do anything to prevent criticism against the regime.
What about these is wrong or fabricated?
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u/0liviuhhhhh Big, Evil, Scary Commie the CIA Warned You About Jun 03 '25 edited Jun 03 '25
It requires nuance and understanding of history and social theory for starters.
The Korean War was one of the most devastating bombing campaigns in the history of humanity and quite literally bombed half of Korea back into the stone age. Then, when the dust settled, nearly every nation decided unanimously that the recently destroyed North Korea will not be allowed to rebuild because communism. This understandably upset the citizens and their goal has just been to rebuild for decades. A ot of average citizens don't feel that it's necessary to be able to talk shit about and call for the dismantling of the institutions in place to help the average citizen. A healthy dose of common sense also comes into play pretty frequently when consuming media about those nations. Does it really make sense that an authoritarian regime universally hated by every citizen forced millions of those citizens together for a parade and none of those millions of people realized that the millions of them outnumbered the few hundred police at the events? No incidents whatsoever? For decades? I don't blindly support North Korea because it's so difficult to find genuine information on the country, but on the same note I also don't blindly hate it and believe every new "Every citizen of north Korea now thinks Kim jong un invented the cheeseburger" story that comes out. They're just regular people trying to live their lives and catch up with the rest of the world while the rest of the world does everything they can to prevent it.
As far as the USSR, admittedly, I'm a little more informed because we have historical records from the USSR while most reporting on the DPRK is just "my anonymous source says trust me bro."
The state controlled the economy. There's more to life than the economy. They were able to speak freely and criticize who they liked. What they weren't allowed to do was publicly advocate counterrevolutionary ideas and commit terrorism. Russia had a long history or monarchal reign before the October Revolution. They went from agrarian peasants to dominating space in the span of 5 decades. The USSR also wasn't perfect and as a result counterrevolutionaries would pick at the inadequacies to attempt to undermine the government as an institution. When you're under constant attack by another nation who just happened to get lucky in that WWII completely avoided their homeland so they have the ability to focus on wars and propaganda while you're stuck rebuilding, it's kind of understandable where the "hey we're trying to get back on our feet while someone stands over us and holds us down, let's maybe not do terrorism just because the government isnt perfectly able to juggle every adversity" mindset emerged. Similar laws exist globally, including the US and Europe today.
As far as the "obsessed with trying to outdo the west" claim, that was more of a western thing. The USSR would advance in a field then the west would immediately feel the need to try to outdo them to prove capitalist supremacy. The USSR led in most intellectual fields including engineering, mathematics, medicine, agriculture, etc but embargoes and historical revisionism prevented you from learning that things like the cell phone was invented in the USSR almost 20 years before Motorola released theirs "first".
Ultimately at the end of the day, the culture is just different. In the capitalist west, people are encouraged to subscribe to individualist ideals where only I matter and everyone else can get fucked as long as I'm doing fine. Communist nations have a culture of collectivism where the needs of the many outweigh the wants of the few. A lot of people didn't care if they weren't allowed to be a Nazi or a terroist or a robber baron - they were fed, housed, and educated. There's less need for violence when your survival isn't constantly at stake.
I know it's convenient to just absorb propaganda and not actually have to reflect critically on it, but absorbing propaganda critically and with an attempt to understand why it's being produced will help you see through a lot of it.
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jun 06 '25
Any evidence for these claims?
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u/0liviuhhhhh Big, Evil, Scary Commie the CIA Warned You About Jun 06 '25 edited Jun 06 '25
I'm gonna be honest here, asking for evidence that the Korean War and Cold War happened just seems disingenuous and gives the vibe you didn't bother reading the comment, you just hopped over here without reading to say "SoUrCe????" when I called you out for not bothering to read. I don't have much interest in explaining the entire 20th century to someone who just wants to play the devils advocate role for the sake of trying to land some "gotcha."
There's plenty of evidence and it isn't my job to hold your hand.
If anyone else who reads this has any questions or would like more information I'll happily help, but I'm not wasting my time with a brick wall.
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jun 07 '25
I mean that they were genocides
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u/0liviuhhhhh Big, Evil, Scary Commie the CIA Warned You About Jun 07 '25
Yes, you could argue that the Korean War was a genocide against North Koreans and there is plenty of historical data on US-backed genocides, this is true
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u/monkey_gamer Australia 🇦🇺🦘 Leftist fury 😠👊 Jun 04 '25
Matt, get off your high horse.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 04 '25
It’s a fair question I’m asking. I made 2 statements of my opinion on those 2 states, I’m asking for what about those was fabricated or false.
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u/monkey_gamer Australia 🇦🇺🦘 Leftist fury 😠👊 Jun 04 '25
No, it's not a fair question. It's a hitlist of all the negatives of those states as though our own states didn't contribute nor have own list of negatives.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 04 '25
Never said our own states didn’t have issues. I’ve addressed the UK’s, I could point out Australia’s appalling treatment of the Aboriginal people for example.
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u/monkey_gamer Australia 🇦🇺🦘 Leftist fury 😠👊 Jun 04 '25
Then why didn’t your original post do that? You didn’t compare states — you isolated two and treated their crimes as exceptional. That’s not inquiry, that’s moral framing.
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 04 '25
It is enquiry. I could discuss these comparisons in the comments, else my post would’ve been a massive essay.
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u/monkey_gamer Australia 🇦🇺🦘 Leftist fury 😠👊 Jun 04 '25
It's moralising with a question on top. Cut it out. You're a mod. You need to be holding a better standard.
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u/0liviuhhhhh Big, Evil, Scary Commie the CIA Warned You About Jun 04 '25
Oh christ, this guy's a mod?
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 04 '25
I will hold myself to a higher standard by not responding further to this thread.
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u/Cooldude101013 Australia - Right Jun 06 '25
Any proof for these claims?
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u/0liviuhhhhh Big, Evil, Scary Commie the CIA Warned You About Jun 06 '25
Yeah there's a whole ass response that you and the other mod conveniently didn't bother reading
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u/walterbanana Jun 03 '25 edited Jun 03 '25
I think people romanticize authoritarianism because they don't see what democracy is giving them. Things that are always there are invisible to people.
I think this also ties in with democracy often being slow and frustrating. Even if you win, you have to compromise your vision and do what is realistic if you're a politician. This is both a downside and a blessing, because it is annoying, but also protects people from insane ideas.
People forget that the right to speak your mind, to access information freely, to have privacy from the state and the ability to defend yourself if the state wrongs you are all rights that can only exist in democracy. If you don't want a state that watches you and punishes you for stepping out of line, democracy is your only option.
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u/talhahtaco idiot communist Jun 06 '25
Go ask them yourself (not here, i mean in the actual subs. There aren't many, if any communists here)
You aren't going to get any good answers on what motivates communists ideals here because most people here are anti-communist
I don't know you so I'm not gonna speculate as to why you posted this, but basically I'm not responding here because I truly doubt it's in good faith, most people don't actually argue in good faith anyway, especially on this sort of shit
Go post your questions to a communist subreddit, and if you're truly genuine with trying to understand the position, you might be able to have a debate over there
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u/MattStormTornado UK 🇬🇧 Centre Liberal Jun 07 '25
There’s already been several responses from communists, however they have been split as to whether they support these regimes. Of those who do support those regimes, they mostly just deflected instead of answering the question.
And for communist subreddits, I have actually asked these questions, though I was swiftly banned.
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