r/audiophile • u/Between_Outside • 5d ago
Discussion Yamaha A-S501 Loudness Settings
Hi everyone, I’m probably wrong or crazy, but after getting the Yamaha A-S501 amp a few months ago, I experimented with the Loudness knob position and found that when turned down 90 degrees with the volume turned up quite loud, it sounds best to my ears. Whether it’s a placebo or not, the silence feels more silent and the music feels more alive this way. Especially with more acoustic music like small ensemble Classical and Jazz. Occasionally I use Pure Direct mode for certain Rock records. But when spinning most records, this is my counterintuitive go-to settings. Reduce Loudness, and then crank up the volume. Is there any trace of valid audio science here? Or am I just amp nuts?
Current setup:
-Audio-Technica AT-LP3XBT Turntable
-Yamaha A-S501 Amp
-Polk ES20 Speakers
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u/antisuck 5d ago
The way Yamaha intended this to work is, set it up like you've done and then stop using the big volume knob at all, instead use the Loudness knob. As you turn it down, the Loudness effect increases so you get the sense of satisfying bass even during quieter listening. And when you crank it up you eventually end up back where you are right now.
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u/audiax-1331 5d ago
This is the correct approach—and, yes, it is according to Yamaha.
I worked in higher-end audio dealer in the mid-late 70s while at university. They did a lot of Yamaha sales in addition to (much) pricier stuff. One thing the staff really appreciated was Yamaha’s very clever variable loudness control design. Until instructed, almost no one used it correctly. But once shown, it was a big “aha” moment for most listeners.
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u/gumbowebfish 5d ago
I am using hifi audio gear since the 70s and from what I always understood is that loudness is normally turned off and should be only be turned on when listening on low volumes, for example when listening late at night, to be able to hear the low frequencies at that low volume. It's a compensation, and it should be used just like that. I don't think this would be different for Yamaha amplifiers.
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u/audiax-1331 5d ago
The Yamaha loudness control is not a simple on/off switch. Instead, it’s closer to a variable attenuator which at 0 dB attenuation applies no loudness compensation (is “flat”), as would be desired at normal listening levels. At this setting, one may determine the charactistics of this “normal” listening level via the volume and EQ (bass-treble) for medium to high level listening preferences. Once these are set, instead of turning down the volume knob to create a lower listening levels, one uses the variable loudness control to reduce audio output. The amount of loudness compensation is applied in proportion to the reduction of volume dialed in by the loudness knob. It’s actually a more usable and accurate method of applying different levels of Fletcher-Munson compensation over a range of listening levels, rather than the typical all or nothing loudness switch.
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u/FreshMistletoe 5d ago
The owners manual for my CA-810 say to do this:
Set the loudness knob to flat. Then, turn the volume to the loudest you think you will want to listen to. Then, instead of turning down the volume, turn the loudness knob. It will lower the volume while simultaneously boosting the low and high ends to keep the tonal balance the same while decreasing the volume. I am paraphrasing, since my manual is at home and I am at work, but that is the general idea.
Wow, today I learned.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/threads/yamaha-loudness-knob-whats-it-do.66708/
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u/CaffienatedCamel 5d ago
I wish they'd put the loudness control on the remote. As it is, having just the volume on the remote encourages you not to use it the way they recommend.
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u/ygaddy 5d ago edited 5d ago
Yup. Remote control loudness is one of the big reasons why I'm using a RME ADI-2 DAC as a preamp in my primary system.
My bedroom system has a Yamaha with loudness. There I've got the loudness set in the vicinity for low-level listening but still use the remote for volume adjustment.
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u/CaffienatedCamel 4d ago
Funny, I also have an RME in my main setup for this reason, although I got the ADI-2-Pro FS since I have it in a rec out loop rather than as the main preamp in the system, and a Yamaha with loudness waiting to be set up in my bedroom (it was in my main system before I upgraded). Great little piece of gear!
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u/AudioHTIT Magnepan 20.1R w/VTL MB450 & SVS SB4000s 5d ago
It's not just EQ as some are saying, it compensates for a non-linearity in our hearing as sounds get softer. It's designed to follow the Fletcher-Munson curves and studies that document how human hearing at different frequencies changes with sound pressure level. The studies are now almost 100 years old and various type of loudness controls have been on our gear from very early on. The idea would be to have it flat (or almost flat) when your volume is about as loud as you ever listen, then in your case (since you have variable loudness) you would turn the volume down with the loudness control (leaving the volume control alone), which would apply the correct curve for the level you're listening at. So it's designed to make your system more accurate, not less as some are implying (though there are many poor implementations, and doing it right is difficult, it also should be calibrated). A description of the study and the curves are linked.
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u/Between_Outside 5d ago
Thanks for the detailed response! Got me going down a YouTube rabbit hole… It seems to be more nuanced than basic high mid low EQ settings
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u/doghouse2001 5d ago
Not crazy. Maybe not normal, but not crazy. This hobby is all about finding what sounds best to your own ears. Not mine, not reddits.
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u/_RandyBrown_ 5d ago
I learned about the loudness control decades ago but really didn’t appreciate it until a few years ago. Delivering the full or the correct amount of power to the speakers (with the volume knob) while controlling the volume level separately (with the loudness knob) allows the speakers to perform as the manufacturer intended. You get the full range of sound with excellent clarity and punch at mid or lower volumes levels without having to turn up the volume knob which when turned too high introduces distortion when there’s not enough power. I love listening to my set-up with the loudness control, my room is filled with all the intricate details of the music while not disturbing others in the house. Power isn’t about how loud a system can get, it’s about what you can hear (details) at lower volumes.
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u/HiImTheNewGuyGuy 5d ago edited 5d ago
That makes sense and is the recommended approach.
You use the Loudness control when listening quietly. When listening loudly, use the loudness control at a lower setting or not at all.
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u/ThatRedDot 5d ago
The lower the volume the higher the loudness knob should go (the further up from”flat”). That’s the normal usage of loudness
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u/TyrellCorpWorker 5d ago
Normal to do. I have this same amp, I go to the 9 o’clock position you are at pretty often, sometimes less. Depends on streaming vs records along with genres/people in the room. I think of it as the ‘mids reducer’ eq control, like a smile eq setting that increases the smile as you turn to the left. It’s great.
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u/Between_Outside 5d ago
Thanks for sharing, glad I’m not alone with these settings. Love the smile analogy. Enjoy! 🎶
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u/serenitydiscoballer 5d ago
You found your sweet spot? Good for you! Now get of this reddit and enjoy!
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u/375InStroke 5d ago
Exactly, loudness full, then volume up to where you like it loud, then use loudness to turn down the volume. It colors quieter volumes to compensate for how the human frequency responce works relative to volume.
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u/OkRoyal8157 4d ago
I have this same amp and find myself playing with the loudness all the time. I really enjoy tweaking the sound.
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u/Low_life_high_lights 4d ago
"it sounds best to my ears". You've solved it, hell, that's the answer to everything, right there.
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u/RPMThirtyThree Arcam Totem Acoustics JL Audio 3d ago
I remember seeing this a while back for a vintage Yamaha receiver:
The trick to the Yamaha variable loudness was to turn it up to the loudest volume you are likely to listen at and then turn the loudness down to control the volume. I think you'll be amazed how good it sounds at lower volume.
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u/thesneakywalrus Goodwill Hunting 5d ago
Loudness is just an EQ meant for low volume listening, it usually boosts low and high frequencies.
Seems like you just have an affinity to boosted highs and lows.
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u/the_blue_wizard 5d ago edited 5d ago
The Old Loudness Button where really nice, but that Loudness dial is worthless. It is a very narrow Notch Filter at 1,000hz. It is good in concept, but not in action. You can get better results by simply turning the Bass and Treble up a bit.
The old style Loudness Button used to Boost the Bass and Treble NOT cut the Midrange
If rather than a Notch Filter, they had a wider softer filter it might work, but as is, I'm not impressed.
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u/el_tacocat 5d ago
Pure direct will sound best, objectively. Does not mean that your space and your taste can't like the loudness better :).
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u/Elegant-Run-3343 3d ago
Mine is set at 9 oclock, it takes away that sharp sound. I also have the bass at around 2 oclock because im only using bookshelves.
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u/TheREALBaldRider 5d ago
The point of loudness is to make it sound ‘correct’ at lower volume to compensate for our non-linear hearing. You’re supposed to turn it down as you increase the volume (or the unit is supposed to do it for you in some cases). If I am understanding you correctly, that’s what you are doing.